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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Does anyone have ANY idea what they called her back for yet?

I thick the absence of Orwell at tea is actually important. It's to be expected that Rusty isn't there, since apparently he's not looked favorably on (perhaps not only because of his discipline), but Orwell being away makes me suspicious.

I'm thinking this has something to do with Wanda or Olive. I'd bet that Marie has predicted that some action related to one of those women is necessary for FAQ to survive Haffaton, so Orwell is watching them right now.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:28 pm 
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    Haha, Heavens to Betsy/Murgatroyd.

    This is also a fun tie-in to Don and Jill's own tea klatsch before she re-assumed the throne.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:15 pm 
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    Ew is right.

    Are you seriously suggesting royal tea by way of Mackenzie Phillips?

    I can get behind the idea of it simply being a pun, but we're a context-juggling audience. Keys and gates, trains and cigars.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:26 pm 
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    Urf wrote:
    Ew is right.
    Are you seriously suggesting royal tea by way of Mackenzie Phillips?
    I can get behind the idea of it simply being a pun, but we're a context-juggling audience. Keys and gates, trains and cigars.

    Personally, I think there's nothing Electra-fying about this update. It's just a pun for the start of an elaborate Tea Ceremony, not the beginning of an orgy.
    However, the disgust factor with the incest taboo is a learned biological response, and also makes rational sense due to the all the issues inbreeding causes, but Erfworld doesn't operate that way. Units are just popped, and the parent/child relationship is mostly a figurative one, maybe even exclusively a royal thing. (Do we have any instances of a non-royal parent-child relationship yet?) If it's just a royal thing, Earth history provides many examples of royal inbreeding, so Erfworld may be no different in that regard. Olive the Hippiemancer's suggestions regarding Wanda sharing the bed with her and Tommy seems to indicate that it's not unheard-of, and might actually be pretty common.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:39 pm 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    (Do we have any instances of a non-royal parent-child relationship yet?)

    Yeah I have actually wondered about this as well. Overlord Firebaugh was clearly "Father" to Tommy and Wanda, but not to the other casters or warlords. But we have no idea why this even exists as a mechanic for non-royal sides...there HAS to be some benefit though, since what's the point in non-royals having "family"? (Keep in mind, everything in Erfworld has a purpose related to the "game")

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:29 pm 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    Olive the Hippiemancer's suggestions regarding Wanda sharing the bed with her and Tommy seems to indicate that it's not unheard-of, and might actually be pretty common.


    I had the opposite impression, that it took a Date-a-mancy wielding Hippiemancer to conceive and make the suggestion, not that its otherwise common.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:39 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    MarbitChow wrote:
    (Do we have any instances of a non-royal parent-child relationship yet?)

    Yeah I have actually wondered about this as well. Overlord Firebaugh was clearly "Father" to Tommy and Wanda, but not to the other casters or warlords. But we have no idea why this even exists as a mechanic for non-royal sides...there HAS to be some benefit though, since what's the point in non-royals having "family"? (Keep in mind, everything in Erfworld has a purpose related to the "game")

    Yes it is unknown why exactly... though if i had to guess i would say that offspring might have additional stat bonus's that normal units don't have, like that stat bonus that royals have over non-royals. Like for a royal side, the level of a unit's nobility is reflective of there stat bonus; so while a Count and a Prince might both get a stat bonus, a prince would have a higher bonus. For non-royal sides, while they can't produce nobles and thus can't produce warlords and casters with those bonus's, its possible that their might be an exception for off spring; If an overlord wants to pop a warlord that's stronger than the average warlord, he may have the option to produce an offspring instead of common warlord and thus get a warlord with a natural bonus... either that or "Children" are popped randomly just like casters when you pop a warlord.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:29 pm 
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    'Overlord Firebaugh was clearly "Father" to Tommy and Wanda, but not to the other casters or warlords. But we have no idea why this even exists as a mechanic for non-royal sides...there HAS to be some benefit though, since what's the point in non-royals having "family"?'

    There could be a natural loyalty/moral bonus when dealing with family. Some games had less likely to be betrayed/back stabbed if either your child or married to your child. Example: Genghis Khan turn based strategy game... was impossible for son or son in law to betray you. Genghis has choice of spending his time either managing his empire economy, going to war, or visiting his wives for a chance for kids who would only help many years later. (you only could give orders 3 times a season in your home territory. If you spent 1 of them visiting a wife, then only 2 for other stuff. Any other territory if managed directly by you as only 1 order per season, but you could also put someone else in charge of other territories and AI player would have 3 orders per season like you, though more stupid decisions and may try to betray you. If you managed too much stuff yourself without spending turns resting you got worn out and suffered penalty to each action. Erfworld may work similarly, having children costs money or valuable time, but later valuable to manage your best cities or armies)

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:22 am 
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    I think he's Father to units that he popped, and the other casters and warlords were probably hired from the MK, captured or traded with other powers, or promoted from the rank and file.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:59 am 
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    We have evidence of son/daughter warlords being expected before popping, so it's not random. I'm also pretty sure not all popped warlords/casters are sons and daughters, or royal sides would have way more princes going around. So my bet is on there being a specific popping order for a warlord with family ties to the ruler, and since it does appear to bestow tangible benefits it probably takes extra turns.

    multilis wrote:
    There could be a natural loyalty/moral bonus when dealing with family.

    This seems likely, considering Wanda's reaction to Tommy upon popping.

    "Chief warlord as well as brother. Respect and attention due." clearly implies a positively modified reaction, which at that time could not have been ordinary learned liking.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:00 am 
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    Saladman wrote:
    I had the opposite impression, that it took a Date-a-mancy wielding Hippiemancer to conceive and make the suggestion, not that its otherwise common.

    Well to be fair, Olive is (as far as we know) JUST a Florist, so no Date-a-mancy was involved...but I agree, any notions that come from any Hippiemancer probably shouldn't be taken as always appropriate or common. And I suppose you could say the same of some other disciplines...Croakamancers definitely seem to perceive the croaked very differently than normal, Predicatamancers seem to perceive Duty differently, its possible other caster types have their own "conventions" that other Erfians may not share.

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    GJC wrote:
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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:32 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    Saladman wrote:
    I had the opposite impression, that it took a Date-a-mancy wielding Hippiemancer to conceive and make the suggestion, not that its otherwise common.

    Well to be fair, Olive is (as far as we know) JUST a Florist, so no Date-a-mancy was involved...but I agree, any notions that come from any Hippiemancer probably shouldn't be taken as always appropriate or common.

    But note that Wanda does not express revulsion for the thought of sharing a bed with Tommy - just that she'd have no problems kicking him out of that bed, so that she could have Olive to herself. If there was a family taboo, I'd expect a stronger reaction to the very idea.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:36 am 
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    Oh yeah haha, very good point.

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    GJC wrote:
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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:36 am 
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    Can't it be simply that a "royal" unit is automatically part of a side's royal family? Which means I'm saying that Lady Wanda Firebaugh is a royal. Tommy knew immediately she was his sister—though he was expecting a brother warlord rather than a sister caster.

    As to "how" casters see the world, it seems natural that specialists have different perspectives. Consider how the moneymancer sees damage as debts. And Thinkamancers seem to have access to a whole other part of reality, like the G Strings.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:41 am 
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    No, we know Goodminton was not a royal side, so Wanda could not be Royal. No, the existence of family in non-royal sides presumably works on a similar mechanic as Royals, but we haven't seen the actual effect/benefit entailed.

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    GJC wrote:
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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:12 pm 
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    balder wrote:
    Fixed, thanks. It was a careless late-night edit after an exhausting con weekend. :oops:

    Call me old fashioned, but I feel like it's not fair to hold Cons on Father's Day weekend! Cus that means some people have to be working an event instead of getting to spend time with family. We can definitely forgive you for that!

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:13 pm 
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    The debates about how magic works should cause us all to reconsider some of our thoughts concerning Clay's description of how Luckamancy works. As is shown, there is no quorum on how any magic works, and consequently, taking any one person's view of their discipline must include a huge cake of salt.

    I do know how to annihilate Betsy's presentation on Hits.

    ___
    Jillian grabbed Betsy's arm and smashed it down on the table. The room heard the crack of bones as her forearm shattered. Betsy screamed in pain.

    Jillian asked calmly, "Do you think that pain in your arm is an illusion? That's what I feel every time I am damaged in the field. While it is very amusing to hear those that hide in towers discuss injury, those of us that suffer them know there is no Foolamancy to it. The swords are real, they cut us, and they croak us. To assume otherwise is to meet a very untimely end for a fool's argument. You would have us all commit suicide to be certain that we can die, since seeing others die is not evidence that I can."
    ___

    There's a school of philosophy that debated whether anything was real. Our perception is flawed, we suffer optical illusions, hypnotism and indoctrination can pervert how we see the world, so how can we know anything is real? It was finally dispelled when one philosopher held up his hand and said, "I know my hand is real." I have merely done the same thing, in a more aggressive way. Betsy's argument leads to a lack of belief in everything, since you can prove nothing if you cannot accept your perception of reality valid.

    Assume the world is real. You'll live longer.
    ___
    I did not detect any new rules.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:20 pm 
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    True, however I'm not sure her position was actually intended to be an assertion of fact, she began her statement with "an interesting thought exercise". Philosophers often "debate" things which they actually "know" the answer to, simply for the sake of practicing the thought process of logic, and to then use these things they know as an analogy or comparison to things they do not understand.
    I agree though, whether she meant her statement as fact or simply to spark the exercise, I didn't take any of the discussion as a revelation of new rules.

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    GJC wrote:
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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:09 pm 
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    Most. Ironic. Thread. Ever.

    This is a forum full of people who do nothing but debate metaphysical and philosophical nuances. And they're talking about pointlessness.

    Fantastic.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:14 pm 
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    I would say that all commanders popped in the capital are children of the ruler and of equal position in the hierarchy of noble ranks (Royal, noble, commoner), though of course in the child position (like Prince) to the ruler (King). At least it fits the data given.

    multilis wrote:
    Some games had less likely to be betrayed/back stabbed if either your child or married to your child. Example: Genghis Khan turn based strategy game... was impossible for son or son in law to betray you.


    If there is one thing I remember about that game it is that my sons-in-law betrayed me all the time...

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