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 Post subject: Book 2 - Page 76
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:46 am 
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Whooo!

Sign of good fiction: don't know who to cheer for.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:49 am 
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    Heh, I know perfectly well who to cheer for. Go Oss, nice to see the King is ready to accept his son back even with the whole decrypted thing.

    Anyway, calling it now, the King dies but they get enough archons before he die that hes able to make Tram the heir.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:55 am 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter E is for Erfworld Supporter IRC Quote of the Moment Here for the 10th Anniversary
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    Well, Rob told me to sticky the automatically made thread when it comes up, but it looks like this one didn't, so I wonder if I can just...

    Just sort of reach over...

    And...

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     Post subject: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:56 am 
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    New one is up.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:37 am 
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    querzis wrote:
    Anyway, calling it now, the King dies but they get enough archons before he die that hes able to make Tram the heir.


    Why would they need to do that? Ossomer was an heir before being decrypted, I bet he still is. However Jetstone still needs money badly. Their treasury is empty, and all their remaining casters and elite units aren't gonna pay themselves next upkeep. The leaderless archons are too much of a tempting target right now.

    On the other hand yes, this will totally be the king's last glorious stand. Finally some nice Erfworld action! :mrgreen:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:47 am 
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    We dont know how decryption goes with heirship and whatnot. At this point, if Oss is heir, Ansom might be as well. It is not safe to assume.

    Anyway it seems that loyalty is indeed strong in this one.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:54 am 
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    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    Ossomer was an heir before being decrypted, I bet he still is.

    I'll take that bet. I highly doubt that being an heir is an attribute that persists after switching sides, let alone dying and being decrypted.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:28 am 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    Ossomer was an heir before being decrypted, I bet he still is.

    I'll take that bet. I highly doubt that being an heir is an attribute that persists after switching sides, let alone dying and being decrypted.


    We've got a couple instances suporting that it does persist:
    -We know that Don Vampire almost got killed by his own heir. This wouldn't make sense if the traitor lost heir status for turning coat, since it would amount to a suicide (kill ruler, everybody on the side either disbands or enters stasis if there's no heir, including you). So for a heir backstabbing his ruler to take control of the realm being a viable plan, you need to be able to keep heir status even if you turn against your own ruler.
    -Hamster mentions that there was a chance that Jetstone units would instantly become GK's if they croaked the king while having decrypted Ossomer on their own side. Granted, he wasn't sure, but the possibility is still there.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:45 am 
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    Slately is not going to die.

    Oh incidentally, there's a predictamancy thread where one can wager their hard earned quatloos on bets regarding Erfworld. I'll stop there and place a bet.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:22 am 
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    [quote="oslecamo2_temp:]

    We've got a couple instances suporting that it does persist:
    -We know that Don Vampire almost got killed by his own heir. This wouldn't make sense if the traitor lost heir status for turning coat, since it would amount to a suicide (kill ruler, everybody on the side either disbands or enters stasis if there's no heir, including you). So for a heir backstabbing his ruler to take control of the realm being a viable plan, you need to be able to keep heir status even if you turn against your own ruler.
    -Hamster mentions that there was a chance that Jetstone units would instantly become GK's if they croaked the king while having decrypted Ossomer on their own side. Granted, he wasn't sure, but the possibility is still there.[/quote]

    We don't know enough about things to instantly assume the facts as meaning what you have though.

    A coup might well be considered an in house action. That is, you don't have to leave, in this case, Transylvito, in order to attack the ruler if you are a heir. And if you follow the heir in the coup, you can do this while believing you are doing your duty (you aren't dooming the side, you are helping your side switch to a better ruler to the best of your abilityi!) you don't turn.

    Hamster was speculating. we got nothing to base it on because it never actually happened before. It's not impossible, but it's not confirmable at this point either.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:55 am 
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    is it just me.. or does ossomer make it sound like it's going to be his last fight for Jetsone? he could also just be saying his happy to be back to jetsone.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:04 am 
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    Is Ossomer's return to the radish actually shown in an update? I know there's the talk of honor and whatnot with Slatley, but is it shown better than that?

    If not, it just seems a bit abrupt and less believable. Maybe that's just because i'm not reading it straight through but after all the prequel updates.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:37 am 
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    tigerusthegreat wrote:
    Is Ossomer's return to the radish actually shown in an update? I know there's the talk of honor and whatnot with Slatley, but is it shown better than that?

    If not, it just seems a bit abrupt and less believable. Maybe that's just because i'm not reading it straight through but after all the prequel updates.


    It's the penultimate comic before the hiatus (comic 73), Wanda leaves Spacerock for the MK with Jack, Oss turns because he (presumably) loses some Loyalty bonuses without her present, and it comes after almost every other text update has Oss ruminating on how much his new side sucks.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:29 am 
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    fjolnir wrote:
    It's the penultimate comic before the hiatus (comic 73), Wanda leaves Spacerock for the MK with Jack, Oss turns because he (presumably) loses some Loyalty bonuses without her present, and it comes after almost every other text update has Oss ruminating on how much his new side sucks.

    Not to nit-pick, but we actually have NO idea why/how he turned back to Jetstone. It is speculated that this was because of a lost Leadership bonus, or an interruption of the 'Plier's magic due to Wanda being in the MK, or it could be his own force of will, or even another possibility we haven't considered yet. We're flying completely blind on that issue, so we can't even presume anything.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:21 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    fjolnir wrote:
    It's the penultimate comic before the hiatus (comic 73), Wanda leaves Spacerock for the MK with Jack, Oss turns because he (presumably) loses some Loyalty bonuses without her present, and it comes after almost every other text update has Oss ruminating on how much his new side sucks.

    Not to nit-pick, but we actually have NO idea why/how he turned back to Jetstone. It is speculated that this was because of a lost Leadership bonus, or an interruption of the 'Plier's magic due to Wanda being in the MK, or it could be his own force of will, or even another possibility we haven't considered yet. We're flying completely blind on that issue, so we can't even presume anything.


    Considering the fact that no other decrypted turned, we actually can very easely presume thats its mostly loyalty to his old side and utter disgust for his new side that made him turned since its the only thing he had that was different from the others decrypted warlords. So yeah, mostly force of will. That being said, what made him go over the edge might have been Wanda leaving the battle.


    Last edited by querzis on Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:21 am 
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    kagato23 wrote:
    A coup might well be considered an in house action. That is, you don't have to leave, in this case, Transylvito, in order to attack the ruler if you are a heir. And if you follow the heir in the coup, you can do this while believing you are doing your duty (you aren't dooming the side, you are helping your side switch to a better ruler to the best of your abilityi!) you don't turn.


    Not exactly true. Stanley became an overlord by regicide, i.e. coup d etat. While technically hobgobwins killed the king, Stanley was the mastermind behind it.

    As far as stripping someone of the heir status, well, obviously, current king/overlord/regent would have to be aware of who is the one to plan the homicide (might be heir, but might as well be an enemy, and if more heirs are present, which heir would it be anyway?) and we dont even have a precedent in that stripping a unit of its heir status is possible (although admittedly at that point you might as well disband it)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:23 am 
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    Hm yes good point, force of will does appear the most likely cause when you put it that way. Still doesn't rule out another force we are unaware of though. Charlie, Vanna, Bowie, Fate, ect.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:34 am 
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    Why do I feel that Oss is doomed no matter what? He has flipped sides twice in the same day, once by force. He never understood GK so he had no respect or low loyalty or them when he was force to turn. I kinda want to see how Parson is dealing with this development and what about Silvia?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:36 am 
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    Fabo wrote:
    Not exactly true. Stanley became an overlord by regicide, i.e. coup d etat. While technically hobgobwins killed the king, Stanley was the mastermind behind it.


    I'm sorry, but it's not established that Stanley was behind that action.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 76
     Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:05 am 
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    So with the tower fallen and no real remaining leadership active in the garrison, how long do you think before the garrison falls?

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