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 Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:23 am 
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Bunta wrote:
Could he have been disbanded? Do we know if disbanded units just disappear, or if they just drop dead?

I don`t know, Tommy seems to be one of the main reasons why Wanda is still fighting Fate and not turning, so conspiracies might be in place to just make the King "remove" that obstacle... The Sides attacking the capital might be working for Haffaton... And demanded that? Not likely that the King would do it without talking to him first, but... We'll see. ;)


No, it's been well established that disbanded units vanish. It is, essentially, Deletionism - oh wait, that doesn't exist anymore :O

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:24 am 
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    I liked Mack Ramay's knitted brows :) I also found Rexx Cakes description a little tasteless. :)

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:48 am 
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    Berserkas wrote:
    One thing of note about the hippymancers: With their stalling abilities, they are as deadly/far more deadly than some other caster classes. While they prevent the main enemy forces from fighting in the name of "peace", other enemy regiments can go wild on other cities, which is exactly what's happenning. Peace my arse.


    Your specific example is incorrect because peace magic doesn't incapacitate an enemy, the main forces can just retreat to defend the places from the other enemy regiments. If they can't get there in time, well they couldn't get there regardless of the hippie magic and presumably the main force can just move onto another city and burn that down to the ground instead. If you only had one city, then I guess it means you can use guerilla tactics at will and be immune to counter-attacks like you suggest. And I guess if we find out more about hippiemancy there could be things like cost or chance of the spell failing, or amount of units/area it can pacify which would make it less useful

    But you're right, Erfworld is built on war and it's not really a surprise that something like Hippiemancy can be used for destructive purposes, from the game style perspective I doubt Erfworld was created with even the thought of any ability being used for ends other than war and it's going to take Parson level gamebreaking before they can work out how to do it like that. I guess once you solve the upkeep problem and if hippiemancy is 100% reliable you could use it to block off a couple of cities and run a peaceful kingdom. If it's 100% reliable and can be cast infinitely without much cost you wouldn't even need an army

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:02 pm 
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    there are ways a unit can die- it can disband (by rulers order or by refusing to follow an order), it can be croaked by blade, or it can be croaked by spell. this looks a lot like he was croaked by a spell.

    as for how? let us assume that Olive had a scroll(or a magic item), and the 'kiss' let her use the scroll's effect on Tommy. with a scroll her spell may be of any type, not just hippiemancy.

    if it is hippiemancy... then Tommy now rests in 'Peace'.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:38 pm 
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    Interesting. My first reaction to this was "she totally pulled a Poison Ivy" on him. And after reading Xenon's post, I think that there might actually be a spell called "Rest In Peace", and it's used to kill, though whether it was used on Tommy remains a question

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:24 pm 
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    Kaed wrote:
    No, it's been well established that disbanded units vanish. It is, essentially, Deletionism - oh wait, that doesn't exist anymore :O

    This might all take place before Deletionism was subject to Retconjuration.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:33 pm 
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    No, Wanda and Tommy spoke of Retconjuration before they marched to his doom.

    vintermann wrote:
    When exactly do warlords outside cities become barbarian upon the fall of their capital? We know the Wack from Faq became barbarian as a result of it, but apparently Queen Bea's just disbanded when the same thing happened.

    I imagine it's related to having schmuckers in their purses(or gems to hand), it's just, most don't. Of course that still leaves the question of how Caster's in the Magic Kingdom avoid disbanding when their side falls, but there could be a special mechanic for that, just as their is likely a mechanic for heirs to gain a portion of the treasury if their side is zotted.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:33 pm 
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    It's beginning to look a lot like Ruin.
    Everywhere she goes.
    So her enemies never win, a little juice she will expend
    Hearts entranced and men forget their foe!

    It's beginning to look a lot like Ruin
    Her plan she won't disclose.
    Sensing that death awaits, still rushing to their fate
    Love's fate, foreknown.

    A gentle caress or their love to confess is the wish of Larry and Tom
    Dolls that obey and will rise from the fray
    Is the will of the shadowy Dom.
    But for the hour, some flower power will guarantee aplomb.

    It's beginning to look a lot like Ruin.
    Everywhere she goes.
    A march to friendlier climes, though not in sufficient time,
    A Firebaugh, whose fate to fall in snow!

    It's beginning to look a lot like Ruin
    With every sexy pose
    But an inevitability is the uncroaked infantry
    That will soon follow.


    Merry Christmas.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:49 pm 
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    In other news, I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for Delphie. Her predictions about Wanda are destined to come true, but because she consistently fails to predict how those around her will react to learning of her predictions, she keeps ensuring that the prediction comes true in the worst possible way. If she had more sense, she'd realize that most people react poorly to being told that they're the puppets of Fate and she'd find ways to get the Overlord to do what she wants while giving him the illusion of agency.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:19 pm 
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    atalex wrote:
    In other news, I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for Delphie. Her predictions about Wanda are destined to come true, but because she consistently fails to predict how those around her will react to learning of her predictions, she keeps ensuring that the prediction comes true in the worst possible way. If she had more sense, she'd realize that most people react poorly to being told that they're the puppets of Fate and she'd find ways to get the Overlord to do what she wants while giving him the illusion of agency.

    Personally, I hold her entirely responsible for this debacle. If she hadn't gone around telling everyone Wanda was destined to serve under Olive, would Tommy have tried to get her to turn? Would Wanda have rejected her advances if not for Tommy's plan? Would Olive have had the opening for that kiss that many seem to think was fatal? If she hadn't told Olive about Wanda, would this trap have even been set? If not for Delphie's actions, if Wanda and Olive had met without her meddling, things may well have gone very differently. But it was her lies that cost them the most. If she'd gone about her plan honestly, without being mean to Wanda, it would probably have happened.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:30 pm 
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    If i had to guess i would say that this could be all what Haffaton was planning with this whole peace deal. If an alliance is not broken through inaction, then haffaton may have been planning this all the entire time. Through the deal with would get wanda; capture can risk croaking her in combat, or it could mean one of the other sides gets to her first. They would be bound to an alliance, but in truth haffaton no longer needs to do anything to finish off good mitten. They can allow goodmitten's former enemies to wipe out the side for them... Haffaton gets wanda AND gets to end goodmitten, but don't have to face the penalties of breaking alliance because someone else wiped out goodmitten.

    Ah and just to think i was trusting of Olive.

    atalex wrote:
    In other news, I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for Delphie. Her predictions about Wanda are destined to come true, but because she consistently fails to predict how those around her will react to learning of her predictions, she keeps ensuring that the prediction comes true in the worst possible way. If she had more sense, she'd realize that most people react poorly to being told that they're the puppets of Fate and she'd find ways to get the Overlord to do what she wants while giving him the illusion of agency.

    Manipulating the overlord is EXACTLY what got her into this mess. She had been manipulating him by only telling him what he wanted to hear with the aim of manipulating his decisions. She gave him the illusion of control; she manipulated him the same way Wanda manipulates Stanely. This in turn had the effect of destroying any trust anyone might have had in her.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:55 pm 
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    MonteCristo wrote:
    atalex wrote:
    In other news, I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for Delphie. Her predictions about Wanda are destined to come true, but because she consistently fails to predict how those around her will react to learning of her predictions, she keeps ensuring that the prediction comes true in the worst possible way. If she had more sense, she'd realize that most people react poorly to being told that they're the puppets of Fate and she'd find ways to get the Overlord to do what she wants while giving him the illusion of agency.

    Manipulating the overlord is EXACTLY what got her into this mess. She had been manipulating him by only telling him what he wanted to hear with the aim of manipulating his decisions. She gave him the illusion of control; she manipulated him the same way Wanda manipulates Stanely. This in turn had the effect of destroying any trust anyone might have had in her.


    My point was that there is a time to be manipulative and a time to be honest. A time to play your cards close to the vest and a time to employ absolute honesty. One would think that a Predictomancer would know what those times were, but Delphie doesn't have a clue. What she should have told the Overlord is what she actually knew: that according to her snapshot of the future, Wanda would end up serving under Olive, and so his job as Overlord was to ensure that this one immutable bit of future history came true in a manner that benefited his side. That would have allowed him to accept the prediction without "feeling like a tree." What she actually told him was that Wanda would end up serving under Olive, so don't even try to fight it because it's Fate, and that is what has raised the Overlord's hackles to the point that he refuses to make a decision as his way of defying Fate.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:07 pm 
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    Pretty sure Olive Branch killed him. She seems well aware that Wanda's love for Tommy is the biggest thing keeping her from being willing to Turn.

    Now Tommy is out of the picture. Her side is potentially about to be ended. At what point does Turning become the only option?

    Why does Olive want her so bad? Did Delphie share something with her that she hasn't told anybody else yet?

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:25 pm 
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    splintermute wrote:
    Kaed wrote:
    No, it's been well established that disbanded units vanish. It is, essentially, Deletionism - oh wait, that doesn't exist anymore :O

    This might all take place before Deletionism was subject to Retconjuration.

    Isn't the whole thing about retconjuration that it affects things retroactively?

    Deletionism never happened.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:53 pm 
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    What I wonder is what will happen after Wanda uncroaks Tommy?

    My guess:

    Spoiler: show
    She will realize that he is an aberration and will start hating her own magic for a time, and this is what will push her into studying other forms of magic.

    Also, she probably WILL uncroak Delphie - she has to learn, somehow, that uncroaked casters can't cast!

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:38 pm 
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    name lips wrote:
    Pretty sure Olive Branch killed him. She seems well aware that Wanda's love for Tommy is the biggest thing keeping her from being willing to Turn.

    Now Tommy is out of the picture. Her side is potentially about to be ended. At what point does Turning become the only option?

    Why does Olive want her so bad? Did Delphie share something with her that she hasn't told anybody else yet?

    She may actually have been trying to help Wanda. As a result of Tommy's death, Fritz will be made Chief. And as a result of that Goodminton will have a higher Chief Warlord bonus for the Capital fight. Also, Wanda loved Tommy more than she loved life itself. She can't die beside him now.

    Would it ever? 'Or death' is always an option. And Wanda is supposed to have an astronomical worth. If there's ever a time for her to show it, it is now.

    It's not impossible that hormones are the reason. If she's as gay as Wanda, her dating pool of attractive ladies is probably rather limited. It could be she's just trying to claim the best meat (i.e. Wanda) as cheaply as possible. But yes, she may know why Wanda is special.

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:18 pm 
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    So Tommy dies ignobly. Why do I feel that Olive's side orchestrated what happened and that the occupying forces where there there only to force Wanda to switch sides? Kinda scary that you can force a unit to switch, but what would there true loyalty be at. Olive is using sex appeal but Wanda would never fully trust her new side and I see her easily betraying her new side when it suits her.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:18 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    It's beginning to look a lot like Ruin.
    Everywhere she goes.
    So her enemies never win, a little juice she will expend
    Hearts entranced and men forget their foe!

    Merry Christmas.


    Nicely done, Zeku!

    As for the other posters, are we assuming that Olive's Chillax is standard fare among high-level Hippiemancers? It might be the only one currently in existence for all we know.
    Also, the precise rules of the Chillax weren't stated, but I assumed that it only stops engagements when used in a friendly city... That does limit its power somewhat.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:46 am 
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    Radagast wrote:
    What I wonder is what will happen after Wanda uncroaks Tommy?

    My guess:

    Spoiler: show
    She will realize that he is an aberration and will start hating her own magic for a time, and this is what will push her into studying other forms of magic.

    Also, she probably WILL uncroak Delphie - she has to learn, somehow, that uncroaked casters can't cast!

    I would expect exactly the opposite. I think she would see uncroaking Tommy as a last honor to him, a way to say goodbye, a way for him to finish his work that was interrupted in life. I expect some very good writing from this. Very nicely set up.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:38 pm 
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    Goshen wrote:
    Radagast wrote:
    What I wonder is what will happen after Wanda uncroaks Tommy?

    My guess:

    Spoiler: show
    She will realize that he is an aberration and will start hating her own magic for a time, and this is what will push her into studying other forms of magic.

    Also, she probably WILL uncroak Delphie - she has to learn, somehow, that uncroaked casters can't cast!

    I would expect exactly the opposite. I think she would see uncroaking Tommy as a last honor to him, a way to say goodbye, a way for him to finish his work that was interrupted in life. I expect some very good writing from this. Very nicely set up.

    Agreed. There's no reason for anybody who didn't already consider animation gross or demeaning to start believing it when applied to a loved one - especially someone like Wanda, who explicitly considers it a thing of beauty. She has all her juice for the turn to spend on him; he'll her masterpiece for some time to come.

    She'll feel the lack of Life more badly, sure enough - Olive might even might even have done this partially to make her earlier point - but an inherent limitation like that doesn't really detract from what her art is and can do.

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