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 Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:23 am 
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I also wonder when does she come to FAQ? They haven't been mentioned yet al all.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:46 am 
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    Wanda's Fate, or the first inevitable step on the path to it, is closing in on her.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:12 am 
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    SteveMB wrote:
    "the last side of the once-powerful Croatan Tribe"

    So, a tribe consists of several sides? That suggests that it could be the "family" of sides created when one splits off from another.
    That reminded me: On the cast page before, Wanda was listed as being of the "Croatan Tribe (extinct)"

    I'd forgotten that. Anyway, it's something of a spoiler for this, I guess, but you should know that already etc etc...

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:16 am 
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    yuffiek wrote:
    So Haffaton is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get Wanda, even to the point of basically saying "We will never attack your (pathetically weak) side again." (there's enough people willing to end your side that we don't need to)

    Just how valuable does that make Wanda? Presumably Croakamancers are rare, but are they rare enough, and bah-ro-ken enough to constitute a side unto themselves?


    I don't think there can be any doubt that Delphia told Olive that Wanda would attune to an Arkentool. It is the only explanation for why they would be so strongly seeking Wanda herself. Even as a Master Croakamancer, she isn't that important.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:49 am 
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    Maybe the prophecy just means that Wanda will be "serving" "under" Olive ;)

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:46 am 
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    Glad to see a mention of the tribes again... Only the other day I was looking at the old cast page and wondering if Wanda'a "Croatan Tribe" was going to be forgotten in more ways than one.

    So we kinda know that Goodminton (and any other Croatan sides) will be destroyed, probably by the end of this story.

    But then, we kinda knew that anyway.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:05 am 
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    Ah Wanda, this is my favourite moment of ye so far! Uncroaked chaperons, brilliant.

    DuffTerrall wrote:
    Silvan wrote:
    Whats to prevent them from say. Placing a table next to Olive, placing something REEEALLY heavy and large and then pushing it off of the table onto her head?

    Probably they just wouldn't think of it. It's the sort of thing that Parson would do, no doubt, but that sort of thinking outside the rules seems like something new that he brought to the table.


    ...

    Nah, I've had my quota of uber grumpy posts for this week. I'll just state that "they" would think of this, and that they, in fact, have. Wanda in her drunken stupour is half-jokingly thinking about reducing siege defenses by smashing pieces of interior decorations so she noticed the exploit.

    But she wouldn't want a heavy vase to croak Olive. Nooo, she wants Olive for something else. Smooth Olive is smooth.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:34 am 
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    so Olive can just leave their forces locked down until all of Wanda's uncroaked army decay? Wow.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:45 am 
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    Kizmet wrote:
    so Olive can just leave their forces locked down until all of Wanda's uncroaked army decay? Wow.

    I don't think so. It did specify they can leave at any time. Once they are out of the hex, they could lay seige to the city. Even if they can't actually go back in, they could wreck the walls or if they have archers shoot in. It definitely eliminates a lot of options though.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:56 am 
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    SteveMB wrote:
    "the last side of the once-powerful Croatan Tribe"

    So, a tribe consists of several sides? That suggests that it could be the "family" of sides created when one splits off from another.


    I actually logged on to ask about this. I hadn't known the distinction of what a "tribe" was before - so a tribe consists of multiple sides, all related? Would this mean all of them are "naturally" allied?

    Anyways, we know Wanda is the last, so Tommy et al are doomed. I'm just wondering if it's Olive who does it (some kind of trick in the contract?)... after which I suppose (Wanda would be theirs already) Olive would tell her something along the lines of "in the grim darkness of Erfworld, there is only war"

    anyways I'm starting to wonder about all this talk about destiny/predestination. We're getting a LOT of it. "It was meant to be", "you were Fated to be/do X" etc.; I'm not sure I like it.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:31 am 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    I don't think there can be any doubt that Delphia told Olive that Wanda would attune to an Arkentool. It is the only explanation for why they would be so strongly seeking Wanda herself. Even as a Master Croakamancer, she isn't that important.



    Unlikely. It was Wanda herself who told Parson that Marie, in Faq, made the prediction that Wanda would attune to an arkentool.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:39 am 
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    gameboy1234 wrote:
    Kreistor wrote:
    I don't think there can be any doubt that Delphia told Olive that Wanda would attune to an Arkentool. It is the only explanation for why they would be so strongly seeking Wanda herself. Even as a Master Croakamancer, she isn't that important.



    Unlikely. It was Wanda herself who told Parson that Marie, in Faq, made the prediction that Wanda would attune to an arkentool.


    The one doesn't exclude the other. Marie told Wanda. That doesn't mean she was the first or only person to know Wanda's fate. When you consider that there seems to be a larger Predictamancer conspiracy at work here, we should assume a lot of people are actually in the no, even if they aren't folks we are seeing in the story.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:09 pm 
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    Wanda could still find a way to win this battle, and yet lose horribly later.

    Wanda's side is "fighting 5 on 1"... what is the price for the secret info their frenemies are giving this enemy? As soon as Wanda is handed over the frenemies wipe out the side and give back whatever cities where given for Wanda? That may be the secret info... Wanda's side loses no matter what, they just want to make sure Wanda is left.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:18 pm 
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    kagato23 wrote:
    gameboy1234 wrote:
    Kreistor wrote:
    I don't think there can be any doubt that Delphia told Olive that Wanda would attune to an Arkentool. It is the only explanation for why they would be so strongly seeking Wanda herself. Even as a Master Croakamancer, she isn't that important.



    Unlikely. It was Wanda herself who told Parson that Marie, in Faq, made the prediction that Wanda would attune to an arkentool.


    The one doesn't exclude the other. Marie told Wanda. That doesn't mean she was the first or only person to know Wanda's fate. When you consider that there seems to be a larger Predictamancer conspiracy at work here, we should assume a lot of people are actually in the no, even if they aren't folks we are seeing in the story.


    Absolutely. Delphie, if uncovering a Prediction of that quality, would be screaming for help from other Predictamancers to try to figure out more about this special person. Someone Predicts Marie's involvement, and then she's involved.

    I have always been of the belief that the treal Conspiracy behind this is the Predictamancers. I just don't find their intent to create Peace worthy of everyone else's accusations of manipulation and evil. Manipulating everyone into not killing each other isn't vile, to me.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:34 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    I have always been of the belief that the treal Conspiracy behind this is the Predictamancers. I just don't find their intent to create Peace worthy of everyone else's accusations of manipulation and evil. Manipulating everyone into not killing each other isn't vile, to me.


    It's a "road to hell being paved with good intentions" thing. It's not that the Predictamancers are evil because they want peace (assuming they do). It's that their approach robs others of their agency, or rather, tramples over said agency because Predictomancers "just know better" and act that part. YMMV of course as to whether keeping vital information from someone to keep them doing what you want them to is an attack on that person's right to choose for themselves of course.

    EDIT: there was at least one story where a "crazed" Knight Templar type seeks world peace by mind-controlling everyone into submission; they tend to be presented as villains. Now, what the Predictomancers do is less blunt, but a shade on the same spectrum.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:45 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    Whatever Olive wants Wanda for, at this point, I think it's becoming an offer Goodminton can't refuse.


    The question is getting Wanda to honor the offer. They could keep going back and forth: offer, honor, offer, honor....

    Sorry*.

    *no I'm not

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:49 pm 
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    build6 wrote:
    SteveMB wrote:
    "the last side of the once-powerful Croatan Tribe"

    So, a tribe consists of several sides? That suggests that it could be the "family" of sides created when one splits off from another.


    I actually logged on to ask about this. I hadn't known the distinction of what a "tribe" was before - so a tribe consists of multiple sides, all related? Would this mean all of them are "naturally" allied?

    Anyways, we know Wanda is the last, so Tommy et al are doomed. I'm just wondering if it's Olive who does it (some kind of trick in the contract?)... after which I suppose (Wanda would be theirs already) Olive would tell her something along the lines of "in the grim darkness of Erfworld, there is only war"

    anyways I'm starting to wonder about all this talk about destiny/predestination. We're getting a LOT of it. "It was meant to be", "you were Fated to be/do X" etc.; I'm not sure I like it.


    Maybe it's like when an heir creates a new side the two sides consider themselves a tribe is probably the best ides given current info. Hisotrically a tribe is several families united by blood, marriage etc. Kinda like our extended families that include cousins and whatnot. It sounds like the closet erf equivalent. Maybe natural allies to is also quite possible.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:20 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    It's a "road to hell being paved with good intentions" thing. It's not that the Predictamancers are evil because they want peace (assuming they do).


    They're living in a world in permanent warfare. Getting it wrong can't make it any worse than it already is.

    You're applying Earthly morality to a world where it doesn't exist. So they create war in a world at war. Wow, so heinous.

    But the other flaw is the assumption that they will fail. We don't fail to try because we may fail and make things worse on Earth. Expecting that choice to be made on Erf, where every Side has an agenda of conquest, is simply nonsensical. It's just one more agenda amongst thousands.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:30 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    They're living in a world in permanent warfare. Getting it wrong can't make it any worse than it already is.


    I can think of ways that their world could be worse than it is but

    Kreistor wrote:
    You're applying Earthly morality to a world where it doesn't exist. So they create war in a world at war. Wow, so heinous.


    This throws all discussion in the air- including your position. If we can't apply Earth morality, then how do we get to say "War is bad?" and that the alleged purpose of Predictamancers is a noble one?

    Kreistor wrote:
    But the other flaw is the assumption that they will fail. We don't fail to try because we may fail and make things worse on Earth.


    This is not relevant. You asked, "why do forumites hate on Predictamancers?" and I said "because their methods are dubious". Methods aren't necessarily dubious because they may fail or not.

    Kreistor wrote:
    Expecting that choice to be made on Erf, where every Side has an agenda of conquest, is simply nonsensical. It's just one more agenda amongst thousands.


    We'll have to stop right here and establish how much of Earth moral thinking are we allowed to import, otherwise the argument won't go too far either way.

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     Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:47 pm 
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    Hmm.. I assume that ammo is replenished for arrows and ballista, and personal items such as bows and weapons may be repaired at start of turn, but the same is not true for a cities defensive mechanical devices? Perhaps you either have to raze the entire city to rebuild them or just spend some money to rebuid them.

    Not sure how breaking them will help Goodminton as their forces are already in the courtyard and tower. Perhaps all of this is just Wanda being pettty as Olive is with her brother and not her and trying to justify it with the notion of reducing Haffaton's city defenses however slightly.

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