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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:21 am 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:32 am 
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    That Delphie really does seem like a nasty piece of work.

    I really don't like the idea of Wanda being sold away like that.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:40 am 
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    Welcome back Xin.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:45 am 
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    Man, angry young Wanda is cute...

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:58 am 
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    sounds like a setup to destroy goodmitten. remove the tactical advantage... and when the city falls, the mancer is then free at last to the magic kingdom.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:05 am 
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    Xenon wrote:
    sounds like a setup to destroy goodmitten. remove the tactical advantage... and when the city falls, the mancer is then free at last to the magic kingdom.

    Could well be. Although if Wanda was in the enemy Capital at the time...

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:39 am 
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    Y'know the more I read this, the more I want to see Delphie croak. Honestly "goodmitten will quickly fall without wanda" seems like its painted all over the wall. And can't help but think delphie knows it but won't tell Wanda that. The fatalist attitude is insufferable.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:19 am 
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    I looked at Wanda's new outfit and immediately thought of one thing...

    TINY MINISKIRTS!

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:27 am 
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    Ar'ts great.

    This update is hard to gauge. Why was a flower power caster using a military style dress?

    While it seems that Delphie is betraying Goodminton, it's not clear why. She has the fatalism that Wanda later echoes, but how much does she really know about Wanda's future? Did she have something to do with Wanda popping, or was that just chance?

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:33 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    Ar'ts great.

    This update is hard to gauge. Why was a flower power caster using a military style dress?

    While it seems that Delphie is betraying Goodminton, it's not clear why. She has the fatalism that Wanda later echoes, but how much does she really know about Wanda's future? Did she have something to do with Wanda popping, or was that just chance?

    Indeed.

    Well maybe she's the type who brings you to a peaceful state and then cuts you while you're defenceless? Or perhaps the dress was left there as a gift for Wanda?

    If she's seen that the side is doomed, she could be seeking to end it early in her favour.The things people do for money... Or she could just be that desperate to keep the Chief spot for a few turns longer than she would if Wanda continued her campaign... I doubt she had any involvement in Wanda's popping beyond convincing Overlord Firebaugh to do it.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:48 am 
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    Wanda has no reason to accept her solding to Haffaton. She is a caster, and if Goodminton falls, she will be captured or could flee to the Magic Kingdom instead of being croaked.

    Wanda has several good reasons to not trust Delphie´s actions, suggestion´s or predictions. I hope her Duty and her instincts will make her oppose Delphie´s plan.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:31 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    While it seems that Delphie is betraying Goodminton, it's not clear why. She has the fatalism that Wanda later echoes, but how much does she really know about Wanda's future? Did she have something to do with Wanda popping, or was that just chance?

    She knows. She lied to Tommy and Overlord Firebaugh about getting a warlord that will turn the tide of battle when she knew they'd get a caster and then she tells Wanda that her destiny is larger than Goodminton:

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    “I want to tell you two things. The first is: you have a role to play here, and you will play it. You answer to me. You’ll do as I tell you to. Your Fate,” she said, her voice dropping to a whisper, “is larger than this side. Your life has meaning. The same can’t be said of everyone walking these corridors. Do you understand me?”

    Goodminton is doomed and Delphi knows it. She also told Clay (hence the Signamancy of decay for both). The reason she is hastening Goodminton's demise is to save Wanda.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:57 am 
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    WarFAN wrote:
    Wanda has no reason to accept her solding to Haffaton. She is a caster, and if Goodminton falls, she will be captured or could flee to the Magic Kingdom instead of being croaked.

    Wanda has several good reasons to not trust Delphie´s actions, suggestion´s or predictions. I hope her Duty and her instincts will make her oppose Delphie´s plan.


    Wanda's thinking of her side and her family, not just herself. The simple reason for Wanda to go along is that "very long treaty of alliance." Duty might suggest that peace with their closest and most dangerous enemy, and the time to re-arm, is worth a valuable caster, even when you're it. And we know treaties can be made magically compelling, or else have crippling penalty clauses, so properly worded it could in theory work out.

    It sounds like Wanda's clear decision at the end was to go along with it.

    I do wonder about the effect of that "hidden weight of orders" in a conversation like this. I'm curious if it's an either/or thing, on or off and obvious when it's on, or if there are gradations where the superior can throw her weight behind something but short of an explicit order, to convince someone with more than plain reasoning. You're right that the weak point in that argument was Delphie's appeal to the authority of Fate, and Wanda neither commenting on it or rejecting it, despite having previously thought Delphie was a liar and manipulative.

    I also wonder what deal Haffaton has with Goodminton's two faithless allies, and how strong the penalty clauses, if any, are on those alliances. Say Goodminton loses the caster who's been keeping them afloat, Haffaton passes on the cities they previously hoped to hold so they can watch Goodminton fall without breaking alliance while keeping said caster as consolation prize, and the two "allies" who've been no help at all move on those same cities before Goodminton can recover. The only weak point I see is Wanda would definitely be what Stanley once called a "morale case." But one way or another, I agree this doesn't likely end well for Goodminton.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:02 am 
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    Althernai wrote:
    Goodminton is doomed and Delphi knows it. She also told Clay (hence the Signamancy of decay for both). The reason she is hastening Goodminton's demise is to save Wanda.


    If Goodminton falls, capturing its valuable casters will be an objective for any force, so Wanda has very high chances to survive her side anyway. And if Delphie has predicted that Wanda will serve under Olive Branch´s command, this prediction can be true under several other forms:

    a) Wanda will turn to Haffaton (and Delphisé Duty is to stop this, not to hasten it).
    b) Olive Branch will be captured or will turn to Goodminton (but Delphie does not want to lose her command...).
    c) Wanda will be captured during a field battle.
    d) Wanda will be captured during the last stand of Goodminton.

    But Delphie is choosing e): Wanda will be sold to Haffaton as part of a treaty of alliance which allows Delphie to conserve her post as Chief Caster, sending to an enemy side a very valuable unit which would be of a superior level than Delphie herself very soon.

    I really don´t think Delphie is working for Wanda´s wellfare, and obviously she is neither working for Goodminton. The question for me is: Is Delphie only a short-siighted traitor or is she part of a proto-caster conspiration from the Magic Kingdom?

    (Sorry for my english... it is not my native language...)

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:11 am 
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    WarFAN wrote:
    Wanda has several good reasons to not trust Delphie´s actions, suggestion´s or predictions. I hope her Duty and her instincts will make her oppose Delphie´s plan.


    I think you can be pretty confident of this. Because the Marxism-flavored fatalism that Delphie expresses now, is exactly the one Wanda is so committed to in the later books ("You can only shorten the birth pains of history, not change its course"). It would be very odd if she just adopted this attitude from Delphie's words alone, rather than through hard-bought experiences suggesting it was true.

    Predictamancy: Wanda will absolutely refuse the plan (maybe outing Delphie to her Overlord in the process, getting her disbanded), Goodminton will quickly fall (from extreme betrayal by Frenemy and Quisling) and Wanda will end up captured and exactly where Delphie said, only losing her entire family and side in the process, becoming the "Last of the Croatans".

    If I'm right I'm going to lose my bet that she would escape through the portal :(

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:20 am 
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    vintermann wrote:
    WarFAN wrote:
    Wanda has several good reasons to not trust Delphie´s actions, suggestion´s or predictions. I hope her Duty and her instincts will make her oppose Delphie´s plan.


    I think you can be pretty confident of this. Because the Marxism-flavored fatalism that Delphie expresses now, is exactly the one Wanda is so committed to in the later books ("You can only shorten the birth pains of history, not change its course"). It would be very odd if she just adopted this attitude from Delphie's words alone, rather than through hard-bought experiences suggesting it was true.

    Predictamancy: Wanda will absolutely refuse the plan (maybe outing Delphie to her Overlord in the process, getting her disbanded), Goodminton will quickly fall (from extreme betrayal by Frenemy and Quisling) and Wanda will end up captured and exactly where Delphie said, only losing her entire family and side in the process, becoming the "Last of the Croatans".

    If I'm right I'm going to lose my bet that she would escape through the portal :(

    I think you're right. I think she's going to try to fight Fate. It fits her character at this stage.

    I don't think she will adopt her later philosophy of Fatilism without having some very hard smackdowns along the way.


    Aside: Is Delphi the same Predictamancer that is with Parson in the MK right now? Wanda seemed very friendly with her.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:29 am 
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    name lips wrote:
    Aside: Is Delphi the same Predictamancer that is with Parson in the MK right now? Wanda seemed very friendly with her.

    No, the Predictamancer in the MK is Marie, who told Wanda she would wield a 'Tool.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:06 am 
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    Xin we love you!

    Also, Wanda did express disappointment in having to change the uniform's colour from black to slate blue. I guess she can change it back to black now, so yay for diplomacy?

    irt. vintermann: yep, I think that's exactly what will happen: Wanda will try and fight fate, only to see that doing so is futile.

    But aye, them Predictamancers need to die. When the revolution comes, they'll be the first put against a wall and shot.

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:55 am 
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    Yay Xin's back!

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     Post Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:56 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    But aye, them Predictamancers need to die. When the revolution comes, they'll be the first put against a wall and shot.



    No... that's exactly what they'll be expecting you to do...

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