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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:37 am 
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Klivian wrote:
I suspect that the reason Sylvia is still kicking is that she attuned to the 'pliers. When she talked to Ossomer about the feeling she got when she picked them up, he lied about feeling the same thing. I get the feeling that her attunement will come back later on.


We haven't heard/seen anything about Stanley touching the 'pliers or Wanda touching the 'hammer. Perhaps any attuned would report similar perceptions as Sylvia when touching the wrong 'tool, and Sylvia is attuned to a different 'tool.

Incidentally, do we know if she has met Parson in person?

BakaGrappler wrote:
Artemis always wanted to earn Glory rather than follow Duty


As it happens, she's not totally unique in that. When Wanda left Ansom behind as she flew to Spacerock, his objection was, "Why would you deny me this glory?"

And now Ansom's shoes are free to be filled.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:55 am 
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    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    We haven't heard/seen anything about Stanley touching the 'pliers or Wanda touching the 'hammer. Perhaps any attuned would report similar perceptions as Sylvia when touching the wrong 'tool, and Sylvia is attuned to a different 'tool.

    I think attunement might be based on simply not being a royal. Ansom nothing. Ossomer nothing. Sylvia, a little feeling. Wanda attune. Stanley attune. Or royal*2 nothing, semi-royal a little, non-royal*2 attune. Maybe Sylvia got a minor in luckamancy when she picked up the pliers?
    (And IIRC that last part was semi-paraphrased from BLAND.)

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:02 am 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    Maybe Rob actually plays Erfworld scenes before writing them to us. Maybe he actually has a gaming group, and that gaming group is the thing inspired him to write. And maybe Artemis is actually character of a player who rolled loads of dice this session, and had 1's a few times. ( I mean, i remember a rogue in DnD 3.5 who used to sneak attack for 4d6. He was sure it was going to be a hit always, so he always rolled the d20 and 4d6 + 1d6 from short sword together. He was like "watch me impale this guy" and got 1 from ALL his rolls. Maybe we witnessed such a gaming session? :D)

    It will be hilarious if Parson dies upon arrival in Spacerock because Rob rolled badly the night prior.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:53 am 
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    Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
    Klivian wrote:
    I suspect that the reason Sylvia is still kicking is that she attuned to the 'pliers. When she talked to Ossomer about the feeling she got when she picked them up, he lied about feeling the same thing. I get the feeling that her attunement will come back later on.


    We haven't heard/seen anything about Stanley touching the 'pliers or Wanda touching the 'hammer. Perhaps any attuned would report similar perceptions as Sylvia when touching the wrong 'tool, and Sylvia is attuned to a different 'tool.

    Incidentally, do we know if she has met Parson in person? [/quote]




    She could well be tuned to whatever the remaining tool is. We just haven't seen it yet. :D

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:47 am 
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    And you must remember, there are 4 known Arkentools. We have no way of knowing if there are more just waiting to be sprung from Pandora's Arkentool-Box.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:23 am 
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    Y'know, I was pleased to see how wary Artemis was of the Hobgobwin Heavy Knight. It shows that all the cash Parson spent promoting them was money well spent, if Fud could take on multiple Jetstone knights even when unled. And it's about time Hobgobwins did something badass. Respect the Hobs, brother!!

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:45 am 
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    As a public service, here's the list of all of Artemis' Knights:

    Nutro
    Purina
    Iams
    Canidae
    Alpo
    Eukanuba
    Proplan
    Innova
    Merrick
    Beneful
    Max
    Acana

    Though I think Nutro and Max might be the same guy (same brand dog food, anyway). Which would leave one Knight unnamed.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:11 pm 
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    U.N Owen was her? I can definitely sense some Flandre Scarlet/Ten Little Indians references in there. They're subtle and a bit tweaked to match the plot, but they're there. From now on, whenever I read a Sylvia update, I'm having this song play in the background: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIop055eJhU

    Also: And then there were none.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:27 pm 
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    Zeku wrote:
    Now try to distance yourself emotionally and morally from what I'm about to say next. Think about only the strategic, wartime implications, or you're going to misunderstand.


    Trust me, that's exactly what I'm doing now-

    Zeku wrote:
    American Indians? Not exterminated. Became a problem later.
    Eastern European jews? Not exterminated. Became a problem later.


    Dude, WTF?!

    If I know anything about North American westward expansion by Euro settlers, it's that American Indians were encountered early on, and also early on the relations went sour. I can hardly call that kind of thing "sparing" a tribe, but case in point, some kind of convivencia exists today, there's no such thing as military battles between Canda or the US and Native Americans, so this goes against your "will bring trouble later" thesis.

    This applies to the Mayan/Inca example too. The populations still exist, it's just the empires that are gone.

    In both cases, what happened was that Euro settlers came in, fighting broke out, lasted quite some time, did not result in annihilation of the local population, but eventually, at least for now, things seem unwarlike. I guess your thesis is "trouble later", so in the grand scheme of things who knows what will happen in the future. Mmyeah, but kinda weak.

    And the Eastern European Jews example is so bizzarely beyond the pale it's ridiculous. Who-wha-why? You mean, Hitler (so this argument is now officially over, carry on in the next thread) lost because some Jews got away? Stalin and the millions of Russian soldiers who gave their lives to push the Wermacht back to Berlin would disagree. Or maybe you mean the middle-ages pogroms should have done the job so that other wackos wouldn't get ideas in the XXth century? What the hell?

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:31 pm 
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    Pepster wrote:
    Or a railroad GM. :lol:

    ... a GM named Fate ... ;)

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:36 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    kouhoutek wrote:
    I don't have a problem with adding flavor text to misses, I just wish we could have a little more variety: "The arrow passed through the space Sylvia's throat would have been if the dwagon hadn't lurched at the knight that very instant"

    The battle turning on *3* mid air collisions is a little hinky.


    Especially since we know Sylvia can knock arrows out of the air with fancy swordplay.

    Why, 3 improbable collisions to stop arrows and everyone just might wonder what's up.

    But whatever it is, it's not that she's fated to attune to the Pliers. That is so monumentally unlikely that it would make narrow escapes caused by falling debris seem like purposefully planned and masterfully executed maneuvers.


    Sylvia was facing a close range level 8 archer warlord, while the chief warlord was in the city. Before she was facing some random archer from a distance under weak leadership. That's a huge bonus difference. Blocking the arrow isn't gonna cut it against Artemis.

    This was luck, guided by the titans themselves.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:39 pm 
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    Ytaker wrote:
    Sylvia was facing a close range level 8 archer warlord, while the chief warlord was in the city. Before she was facing some random archer from a distance under weak leadership. That's a huge bonus difference. Blocking the arrow isn't gonna cut it against Artemis.


    I guess. But when random debris can do the job, you'd think a purposeful blade stands a chance as well.

    Of course, the purposeful blade carries a different meaning. We'd be speculating less about Titanic involvement and GM fiat, and more about how Sylvia counted to infinity twice, in that case.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:13 pm 
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    To those still wondering whether this was divine intervention or just crazy Luckamancy, you can reference Sylvia's last name:

    Wikipedia wrote:
    Lazarus is a name found in two separate contexts in the New Testament. Lazarus of Bethany is the subject of a miracle recounted only in the Gospel of John,[1] in which Jesus restores Lazarus to life after four days dead. Another Lazarus appears as a character in Jesus' parable of Lazarus and Dives, or Lazarus and the Rich Man, recorded in the Gospel of Luke.[2]
    The English variant of the name comes directly from the Latin, itself derived from the Greek Lazaros, which in turn came from the Aramaic Lazar. The ultimate origin is the Hebrew name Eleazar (אלעזר, Elʿāzār), meaning "God's assistance" or "God (has) helped".[3]


    Also, Wanda is Jesus.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:00 pm 
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    I don't think it's likely that Artemis's misses were just misses. If the misses were just misses, there would be no reason for them to all be freak accidents. Also of note is that Artemis doesn't miss when she's not aiming at Sylvia. She doesn't, for instance, miss Captain Archer. The most likely explanation is that, for some reason, Artemis was not supposed to--was not allowed to--kill Sylvia. In other words, just like Sylvia said--Fate. Somebody somewhere is pulling some strings.

    The real question to me is, was Artemis's original miss--the one so many turns ago, that got her 'demoted' to administrative duties, that cut short what appeared to be a promising career--was that also Fate? Has someone just started fixing the game, or has it always been fixed?

    Regarding who can die: I can see Parson dying--and then being decrypted or otherwise returned to life. It would be an interesting twist that still wouldn't answer the question of whether or not this is some kind of dream of Parson's.


    Last edited by motorfirebox on Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:00 pm 
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    Tathar wrote:

    Also, Wanda is Jesus.


    So we're witnessing Erfworld's Rapture?!

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:39 pm 
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    sacrificial_citizen wrote:
    Tathar wrote:
    Also, Wanda is Jesus.

    So we're witnessing Erfworld's Rapture?!

    Worst. Rapture. EVER!

    Seriously. If this is the Great Repopping that will precede the Second Coming of the Titans, I want a do-over.

    Also, does this make Parson a Pwophet? That would amuse me to no end.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:53 pm 
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    suryasm wrote:
    Y'know, I was pleased to see how wary Artemis was of the Hobgobwin Heavy Knight. It shows that all the cash Parson spent promoting them was money well spent, if Fud could take on multiple Jetstone knights even when unled. And it's about time Hobgobwins did something badass. Respect the Hobs, brother!!


    Firesign Theater wrote:
    Fudd's First Law of Opposition: If you push something hard enough, it will fall over.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Ytaker wrote:
    Sylvia was facing a close range level 8 archer warlord, while the chief warlord was in the city. Before she was facing some random archer from a distance under weak leadership. That's a huge bonus difference. Blocking the arrow isn't gonna cut it against Artemis.


    I guess. But when random debris can do the job, you'd think a purposeful blade stands a chance as well.

    Of course, the purposeful blade carries a different meaning. We'd be speculating less about Titanic involvement and GM fiat, and more about how Sylvia counted to infinity twice, in that case.


    Random debris represents an unlucky critical failure. Blocking with her sword is a defending action that may have some bonus to defence.

    You shouldn't think about it in terms of the physics of the matter. If Sylvia's bonus is less than Artemis' then there's nothing she can do to stop the arrow. The debris simply represented a critical failure on the shot. In actuality what happened was something like this.

    Sylvia's defence stat- total of 7. Level 6 so 6 from levels, 1 from being on the same side as the arkenpliers. She has 5 hits remaining after the fall.

    Artemis. Attack stat, 17. 8 from levels, 7 from level 7 warchief in cit. +2 for close range shot with no penalties.

    On attacking you both roll a d4, which is added to your stat. The best result is 11 vs 18, 7 damage. Even if she defended she'd still be killed.

    Artemis on her to hit roll rolled a 1, so the arrow hit a piece of debris.


    Last edited by Ytaker on Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:14 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Zeku wrote:
    Now try to distance yourself emotionally and morally from what I'm about to say next. Think about only the strategic, wartime implications, or you're going to misunderstand.


    Trust me, that's exactly what I'm doing now-

    Zeku wrote:
    American Indians? Not exterminated. Became a problem later.
    Eastern European jews? Not exterminated. Became a problem later.


    Dude, WTF?!

    If I know anything about North American westward expansion by Euro settlers, it's that American Indians were encountered early on, and also early on the relations went sour. I can hardly call that kind of thing "sparing" a tribe, but case in point, some kind of convivencia exists today, there's no such thing as military battles between Canda or the US and Native Americans, so this goes against your "will bring trouble later" thesis.

    This applies to the Mayan/Inca example too. The populations still exist, it's just the empires that are gone.

    In both cases, what happened was that Euro settlers came in, fighting broke out, lasted quite some time, did not result in annihilation of the local population, but eventually, at least for now, things seem unwarlike. I guess your thesis is "trouble later", so in the grand scheme of things who knows what will happen in the future. Mmyeah, but kinda weak.

    And the Eastern European Jews example is so bizzarely beyond the pale it's ridiculous. Who-wha-why? You mean, Hitler (so this argument is now officially over, carry on in the next thread) lost because some Jews got away? Stalin and the millions of Russian soldiers who gave their lives to push the Wermacht back to Berlin would disagree. Or maybe you mean the middle-ages pogroms should have done the job so that other wackos wouldn't get ideas in the XXth century? What the hell?


    You missed the point. And i noticed that you left out Zeku's first example of the people who were in the "Holy Land" when the hebrews arrived. As described in the Old Testament, God keeps saying "Kill them all!" Then a few chapters later, God throws a fit because "Hey, i have looked into your cities and i see some of peoples X, Y, and Z, which i told you to kill, Now go finish the job!"

    This was associated with religious pluralism, that is the toleration of people worshiping someone other than Yahweh. This was defined as a Problem by the authorities. Not by us, today we recognize what a big baby Yahweh is and we understand the politics of cultural control and the avariciousness of priesthoods. But back then? Problem.

    (I once read a discussion on an orthodox judaism forum about this. Several people maintained that if today you were to discover that someone was a member of one of those ancient groups you would still be required to kill them.)

    Likewise the jews in Europe. Each wave of persecution blamed previous waves for not finishing the job. Why? Because jews were aliens who didn't fit in and so they were a danger to society. Problem. And after the shattering of western christianity, protestants and catholics felt the same way about each other.

    As for the american indians, if they had all been wiped out, they wouldn't be around today, wining and complaining, trying to get old treaties enforced in court, etc. Some people still see that as a Problem.

    In fact that's pretty common behavior throughout history.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:36 pm 
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    lodo_bear wrote:
    sacrificial_citizen wrote:
    Tathar wrote:
    Also, Wanda is Jesus.

    So we're witnessing Erfworld's Rapture?!

    Worst. Rapture. EVER!

    Seriously. If this is the Great Repopping that will precede the Second Coming of the Titans, I want a do-over.

    Also, does this make Parson a Pwophet? That would amuse me to no end.


    The signamancy's certainly there. I know I'm not the first one to compare Toolism to Christianity.

    Any Rapture with "Flandre" Scarlet in it is inherently made that much more psychotic and lethal. At some point, I expect there to be a dittomancy placed on Sylvia that makes four of her, and maybe a McRoll reference of some sort.

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