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 Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:40 am 
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Warning- on the map, there's a Dwagon group at E8, which is not in the scout results.

Whoever was after Cameria, they sure liked to live large. So many Dwagons, so many expensive fliers just waiting to be croaked.

And in the courtyard, the instruments of said croaking. A newly popped regiment of Stabbers. Joan felt bad that most, if not all, of them, would live to see the end of turn, but if any of them was asked, they'd say their fate was welcome, as long as they croaked in glorious battle.

"We can leave the Dwagon group that attacks Oldcastle alone. It will face the stone guardians and surely perish. But for the mass of enemies that gather at our walls we'll show no such mercy. If the enemy is intent to tread over us, then we shall croak as many as we can!"


Seriously, the one thing left to ponder is where to send the Stabbers so as to maximize casualties on their side.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:45 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Warning- on the map, there's a Dwagon group at E8, which is not in the scout results.


    Boop.

    You guys technically forgot to scout E8... so you don't really know what is there. I will therefore neither confirm nor deny the presence of a Dwagon stack there or any other forces.

    Consider a Titanic Freudian slip. :P

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     Post Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:24 am 
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    Mm... anyone still alive out there? Or have the Dwagons managed to achieve an unprecedented off-turn multi-hex Shockamancy attack? :P

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     Post Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 4:50 pm 
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    I'm alive and will post some orders tomorrow.

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     Post Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:04 pm 
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    I'm at a bit of a loss for what to do...CW any recommendations?

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     Post Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:41 pm 
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    Location: Probably totally lost.
    Well, we can't win at this point. What we can do is rip into the Dwagons at H6 and G5, claim Captain Sully's wings (if we're lucky and can snag it on-turn), and maybe a few other things.

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     Post Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:45 pm 
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    You can also design your sides for the game proper (believe it or not, this is only the prologue!). I've already got Nihila's starting units, and believe me when I say that cost should not be too much of a barrier on your dreams. ;)

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     Post Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 2:21 pm 
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    tigerusthegreat, looking at the columns near your city, the best option would've been retreat- but you can't get to Neufchatel on account of enemy stacks blocking the way.

    You may try to hunker down inside the city if you think you can make it, but the number of enemy stacks is just ridiculous. Several hexes, each with several stacks of stabbers ... not cool.

    Meanwhile, I'm fairly certain I know what to attack. (the stacks in G5 and H6, in case you were wondering). However, the multiattack rule and the obvious casualties that we'll receive mean that I need to think about how many of our newly popped Stabbers to send at once against a stack. Yeah, all 37 of 'em just might croak any of those hi-level Dwagon stacks ... but it's not the best use of force in the long run. Will get down to it to try and maximize the casualties we can claim from the enemy by using these Stabbers, but that's not easy given the multitude of units around.

    PS: I do believe the SG will make a come-back. But I wish to discuss something with the GM as to the manner. See, my first idea is to follow the exploits of Lord Kelwin, an aging eccentric Baron, sick of hearing about the exploits of such dolts like Zeppellin or Wivingston. So what Kelwin does, is assemble a posse out of the house servants and troops his fortune can buy into an expeditionary force, looking for fame, fortune and adventure. The drawback: at least for the duration of the first mission they appear in, the SG force does not receive reinforcements. In what way this can be compensated is now to be discussed.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 6:45 pm 
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    Going to hold in the tower then, ready to kill anything that comes to harm us. Can't do too much else.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:59 pm 
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    Ran some Mathamancy, to get a feel of how to spend Stabbers.

    Let's say we target Capt. Sully's stack. It can dish out (raw output- no enemy defense, no random factor to reduce things) a whoppin' 224 points of damage. Expected damage output (that is, averaging over several trials) is approx. 0.75*224 = 168. Should our Stabbers do a Hit and Run, then the expected damage dealt by Sully drops to 0.25*0.75*224 = 42. And that assumes the Hob Knight is L1. It has (25 + 2*6 + 6)*8/6 = 57 effective Hits.

    Meanwhile, our 37 Stabbers, together, have 37*5*8/7 effective Hits (which gives 211), and can dish out 37*7 = 259 (or, expected damage output is 194.

    In other words, 37 Stabbers vs. Capt. Sully's stack is a) overkill and more importantly b) wasteful of Stabbers.

    Observation: Capt. Sully's stack is not ranged. It may become advantageous for our Stabbers, to do a Hit and Run then, as they'll receive only 25% of the damage from Sully.

    A mere 6 Stabbers (who'd have the max stack bonus) are just enough to croak Capt. Sully, if they get a perfect roll and do not do a HR. However, they WILL be croaked in the process (168 damage output; worst roll gives 84 damage dealt; 6 Stabbers have 34 effective Hits).

    7 Stabbers are enough to croak Sully if they get a perfect roll while Hit-and-Running, but the expected outcome is to have them all be croaked as well (ok, the expected value is 6.67 croaked Stabbers).

    Assumption- it's not worth considering sending less Stabbers for the suicide mission. Less Stabbers won't have any chance of croaking Sully, but they will get croaked. No fatiguing Sully's stack, nor reducing its number significantly.

    Observation: Dwagon has 20*8/6= 26.(6) effective Hits. This means our 6 Stabbers WILL at least croak the Dwagon, thus weakening Sully significantly. Should Sully survive, our next Stabbers can do HnR on him. (Well, once we target the other stacks in the hex. The method will be similar).

    TL;DR:

    6 Stabbers from Neufchatel form Team Dwagon Fodder and attack Capt. Sully's stack.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:06 pm 
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    Aye, I think we stand a goodish chance to clean G5 of enemies.

    But only G5. If we send 6 Stabbers against each of the 3 stacks, well, there go 18 of our units. The remainder will be needed to mop up ...

    Unless, we use attacks of this type to fell some more Dwagons nearby ... after all, we have more stacks in Neufchatel *wink-wink*.

    Bide your time Knights. Let the Stabbers fell the flying beasts, and then it will be your turn to pick the spoils.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:12 pm 
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    Umm... are you just attacking Sully's stack, or are you targeting him specifically?

    Wait - oh crap.

    I should have clarified - the "battlegroups" were supposed to be single stacks, broken into separate lines so they look better in Notepad. :oops: The columns are separate stacks though. (I like to use equal signs to indicate subgroups within a stack)

    So to hit Sully, you were supposed to have to get through this: {2 x Purple Dwagon, lvl 3 {2 x Hobgobwin Knight, lvl 2}, Purple Dwagon, lvl 5 {Hobgobwin Knight, Knight Captain Sully, lvl 5, *item*}}.

    The Hobgob Knight with Sully is level 1 though.

    Alternatively, since that's a pretty major GM goof, you could interpret Sully's stack as just his Dwagon and his Hobgob...

    Combat result of 6 Stabbers vs. Sully's smaller stack:
    Spoiler: show
    Battle is joined in hex: G5
    TIME OF POST (in minutes and seconds): 5953
    Attacker:
    Total Attack Value: 42.000
    Average Unit level 1.000
    Average Defense 1.000
    Number of Units: 6
    Dancefight? (1: yes, 0:no) 0
    Stacking Bonus: 1.5
    Highest Commander level: 0
    Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
    Fatigue factor: 1.000
    Hit and Run? (1: yes, 0: no) 0.0
    Random Percentage: 75%
    Total Damage (before defense): 47.250

    Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 29

    Defender:
    Total Attack Value: 82
    Average Unit level: 5.500
    Average Defense: 3.000
    Number of Units: 2.0
    Dancefight? (1: yes, 0:no) 0.0
    Stacking Bonus: 1.1
    Highest Commander level: 5
    Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
    Fatigue factor: 1.000
    Ambush Bonus: 1.0
    Random Percentage: 90%
    Total Damage (before defense): 176.567

    Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 154


    So as predicted, the combination of the two knights' attacks and the dwagon's SONIC attack leaves the stack of stabbers a puddle of goo on the road... but in the carnage, they manage to croak the dwagon and injure the Hobgob (leaving it at 2 hits). The Hobgob and Sully would have fallen, but Sully's skillz and his wings allow him to land the dead dwagon safely.

    Sully's mini-stack is now as follows: Hobgobwin Knight (lvl 1, 2 hits); Knight Capt. Sully (lvl 5, *item*)

    So - do you want to interpret the stacks as I'd intended, or just go with this?

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     Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:00 am 
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    Ouch.

    Naturally I'd like to keep the result as in the previous post, but it doesn't seem fair somehow.

    Going with the "all Dwagons are actually in the same stack" thing, well, the Math needs redoing.

    Two questions however.

    1) Can I have the Stabbers direct their damage at the Dwagons without the targeting penalty?

    2) Presumably the answer to 1 is no. All right. If I sent 6 Stabbers, these would croak the first Purple, and the Hobs on that would fall. Now there's two stacks. Can I immediately attack the Dwagons again? Or the Hobs first, then the Dwagons?

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     Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:19 am 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Ouch.

    Naturally I'd like to keep the result as in the previous post, but it doesn't seem fair somehow.

    Going with the "all Dwagons are actually in the same stack" thing, well, the Math needs redoing.

    Two questions however.

    1) Can I have the Stabbers direct their damage at the Dwagons without the targeting penalty?

    2) Presumably the answer to 1 is no. All right. If I sent 6 Stabbers, these would croak the first Purple, and the Hobs on that would fall. Now there's two stacks. Can I immediately attack the Dwagons again? Or the Hobs first, then the Dwagons?

    Ouch for GK or for Cameria? I think you guys got the better of it. :P

    Like I said, I didn't make the notation clear at all, and all it really does is change an apocalyptic situation to a very disastrous one.

    Re Questions:
    1) Nope. I can't really think of a reason why you'd be able to bypass the targeting penalty. :(
    2) Ugh... tough question; I hadn't considered that possibility. A led stack would be able to "maneuver to avoid" and bypass the whole problem.

    Reviewing the rules... offers no guidance. In fact, I can no longer find the clause saying that you have to attack every stack in the hex before attacking an original stack again! (Further review reveals that it got lumped into "Auto-Attacking" while I was cleaning the document.)

    So, you are strictly within the rules as stated to hit the Dwagons again, and again, and again. :P If we go by the intent of the rules, the goal is to prevent concentrated fire on one stack at the expense of others. So, if this sort of off-turn restacking happened on, say, the 3rd round of combat, it'd be unreasonable to hit the new stack 3 times to equalize before you can hit the remaining stacks.

    I'm inclined to say that immediately after such a fall happens, you can attack either stack. But, the normal alternating rule would then apply - the stack you didn't attack would have to be hit next, and then you'd have a choice again, etc.

    Addendum: While reviewing the rules, I also found that the Dwagon stack is actually ranged - purples are ranged, and the other units in the stack are melée riders. The relevant language:
    Quote:
    Ranged Stacks

    A stack may be called Ranged if: all units it contains have the Ranged special, or all units, except the leading Commander, are Ranged, or, all non-ranged units in the stack are either riders on Ranged units, or mounts for Ranged units. If a stack is to fight as a Ranged stack when not all of its units are Ranged, then the non-Ranged units do not contribute damage to the battle calculation.

    You may want to rethink attacking the Purples before they SONIC you like they did Tram. :P

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     Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:11 pm 
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    Aargh, that's correct. Confused them with the Reds who ARE melee.

    Well, Cameria came out ahead in your battle calc above, but according to the rules, that calc shouldn't have happened!

    Hmph. Well, the 3 Purples can do such a whopping amount of damage that we just don't have the Stabbers needed to soak it. So that makes attacking Sully a no-go.

    Ok, fine. Back to the drawing board. It's the Reds at H6 we must attack. Will think a little about what number of stabbers to send.

    About my two questions- yeah 1) was kinda obvious; I got confused with the mount/rider targetting flip (which is free). 2) is to be interpreted in the intent of the rules, correct, which is not to just attack one stack ignoring all others. Now, when two stacks form because the original stack splits there is some ambiguity, but if "most" of the units in the original stack are still in the air, arguably the fallen ones must be attacked first.

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     Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:43 pm 
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    Ok, here's some thinking.

    The Red Dwagon stack at H6 can deal 864 damage. The effective Hits of 37 stabbers come to about 211. So should we send all our 37 Stabbers in a standing (not HnR) fight, they are guaranteed to croak.

    Let's say we do a HnR. The raw output of the Dwagons drops to 216. Our Stabbers are still toast.

    Normally, sending a trickle of units again and again is a bad idea because it provides the enemy with more chances to deal damage via retaliation. However since even one retaliation is enough to croak said Stabbers, this argument is moot.

    Sending 1 Stabber at a time is also a bad idea- no stack bonus. So my guess is that the best use of Stabbers against the Red Dwagons is to send them in groups of 8.

    First group is going to die anyway. No need for a Hit and Run.

    So here's the order that, ahem, is to be evaluated. Send 8 Stabbers to attack the stack at H6.

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     Post Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:56 pm 
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    Trumpets sound, and the valiant Stabbers charge into the fray!

    FIGHT!

    Battle is joined in hex: H6
    TIME OF POST (in minutes and seconds): 4353
    Attacker:
    Spoiler: show
    Total Attack Value: 56.000
    Average Unit level 1.000
    Average Defense 1.000
    Number of Units: 8
    Dancefight? (1: yes, 0:no) 0
    Stacking Bonus: 1.7
    Highest Commander level: 0
    Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
    Fatigue factor: 1.000
    Hit and Run? (1: yes, 0: no) 0.0
    Random Percentage: 100%
    Total Damage (before defense): 95.200


    Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 60

    Defender:
    Spoiler: show
    Total Attack Value: 287
    Average Unit level: 3.556
    Average Defense: 2.889
    Number of Units: 9.0
    Dancefight? (1: yes, 0:no) 0.0
    Stacking Bonus: 1.5
    Highest Commander level: 5
    Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
    Fatigue factor: 1.000
    Ambush Bonus: 1.0
    Random Percentage: 55%
    Total Damage (before defense): 445.926


    Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 390

    Truly, the Titans smile on Cameria! The Stabbers hit Battlegroup Red for all their worth - and then some! A Red Dwagon and its two Hobgobwin riders are felled, and a second Red is left with gaping holes (just 2 hits! TWO!).

    Of course, the Stabbers are sliced and diced into decrypt-ready hamburger meat, even when the dwagons aren't quite at peak performance. But that was to be expected. Almost taking two Dwagons with them? THAT wasn't expected.

    Fun fact - the potential rules issue has been averted!


    Current G5 contents:
    Battlegroup Red (stack)
    == Red Dwagon, lvl 4 (2 hits remaining) {2 x Hobgobwin Knight, lvl 3}
    == Red Dwagon, lvl 6 {Hobgobwin Knight, Knight Captain Kirk, lvl 5}

    Corpses
    8 x Dead Stabbers
    1 x Red Dwagon, lvl 4 {2 x Hobgobwin Knight, lvl 3}

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     Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:47 am 
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    Good roll, that.

    Ok, well, the best policy is still to send 8 Stabbers I think, vs. the same stack. So, therefore, do so: send another 8 Stabbers vs. the Red Dwagons (which should be H6 rather than G5, I think).

    Probably not as lucky as last time, but hey. Max stack bonus, and the enemy will dice through 8 (or more) Stabbers even on the weakest roll.

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     Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:26 pm 
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    "Second wave, go!"

    FIGHT!
    Battle is joined in hex: H6
    TIME OF POST (in minutes and seconds): 4738
    Attacker:
    Spoiler: show
    Total Attack Value: 56.000
    Average Unit level 1.000
    Average Defense 1.000
    Number of Units: 8
    Dancefight? (1: yes, 0:no) 0
    Stacking Bonus: 1.7
    Highest Commander level: 0
    Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
    Fatigue factor: 1.000
    Hit and Run? (1: yes, 0: no) 0.0
    Random Percentage: 75%
    Total Damage (before defense): 71.400

    Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 44

    Defender:
    Spoiler: show
    Total Attack Value: 192
    Average Unit level: 3.667
    Average Defense: 3.000
    Number of Units: 6.0
    Dancefight? (1: yes, 0:no) 0.0
    Stacking Bonus: 1.5
    Highest Commander level: 5
    Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
    Fatigue factor: 1.000
    Ambush Bonus: 1.0
    Random Percentage: 90%
    Total Damage (before defense): 492.480

    Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 431

    Enraged, the Red Dwagons and their riders easily dispatch the next batch of Stabbers... but perhaps they've let their rage get the better of them. The Stabbers bravely fell the last two Dwagons, along with two Hobgob Knights, and they grievously wound the last Hobgob (to just 1 hit). As their Red Dwagon rolls over and plummets to the ground, Captain Kirk and the wounded Hobgob cling on for dear life...

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     Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:32 pm 
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    From the SSERNG: Post Time - 2620

    D6 results: 5, 4

    Assuming 1,2 = injury; 3,4 = incap; 5,6 = SPLAT (insta-croak):

    The Red Dwagon lands upside-down, crushing its riders beneath it. Being crushed underneath a massive Dwagon is the last straw for the cripple Hobgob; Capt. Kirk fares little better, incapacitated beneath his Dwagon's crimson corpse. (hmm... like someone else we know? :P )

    This is where Capt. Sully might have come in handy. :D


    Current H6 contents:
    Smear of Red (stack)
    == Knight Captain Kirk, lvl 5 (incapacitated)

    Corpses
    16 x Dead Stabbers
    2 x {Red Dwagon, lvl 4 {2 x Hobgobwin Knight, lvl 3}}
    Red Dwagon, lvl 6 {Hobgobwin Knight, lvl 1}

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