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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
 Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:15 pm 
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I'd be with you on that bet. Especially since the thinkamancers are trying to aid parson doing all that other stuff being suggested just sounds weird.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:24 pm 
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    I have to chime in two more comments:

    Harrison is not Charlie!

    1. It should be blatantly obvious that a character like Charlie would never risk his life in such a way. From the archons we learned Charlie doesn't even leave his 1 room in his fortress with his handful of close archons. Charlie won't go toe to toe with Parson except as a last resort.

    2. Charlie would not hire Jeftichew or Bowie, he would not HAVE to:
    Charlie: "Hey Jeftichew and/or Bowie, how would you like to kill the defenseless chief warlord of the side that ended your side? He's going to be walking through Portal Park in about 5 minutes. Enjoy." End of thinkagram.

    I'm sure one of Charlie's rules is don't spend money you don't have to. Do you really think he'd pay an enemy to do something the enemy would do willingly, just off of their own grudge?

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    Last edited by mmooneybsa on Wed May 11, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:31 pm 
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    DoctorJest wrote:
    We really need to start an Erfworld betting pool somewhere. I need a new set of tires on my car.


    Some bets would take too long to pay out. e.g. Charlie is male/female. The answer to that could easily be 5 years or more down the road.

    I would definitely be willing to bet on George Harrison is: Charlie, Jeftichew, Bowie, a hippiemancer, a thinkamancer. Did I miss any new theories?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:02 pm 
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    mmooneybsa wrote:
    DoctorJest wrote:
    We really need to start an Erfworld betting pool somewhere. I need a new set of tires on my car.


    Some bets would take too long to pay out. e.g. Charlie is male/female. The answer to that could easily be 5 years or more down the road.

    I would definitely be willing to bet on George Harrison is: Charlie, Jeftichew, Bowie, a hippiemancer, a thinkamancer. Did I miss any new theories?


    I agree here the tHATS and eTREES have been running amok from the moment this page was posted. I figured it would take the full update cycle for this one to calm down. There is way too much tension built up and for Rob's sake hopefully he let's some of the pressure out or it will burst the erfbubble.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:11 pm 
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    mmooneybsa wrote:
    2. Charlie would not hire Jeftichew or Bowie, he would not HAVE to:
    Charlie: "Hey Jeftichew and/or Bowie, how would you like to kill the defenseless chief warlord of the side that ended your side? He's going to be walking through Portal Park in about 5 minutes. Enjoy." End of thinkagram.

    I'm sure one of Charlie's rules is don't spend money you don't have to. Do you really think he'd pay an enemy to do something the enemy would do willingly, just off of their own grudge?


    Charlie doesn't want him dead. In descending order of desirability, Charlie wants Parson to choose to turn, turned by force in the field, captured alive and returned to Charlescomm, incapacitated and returned to Charlescomm and last and definitely least, killed. The secondary goal is the mathamancy bracer, but that's a lesser goal than the acquisition of Parson, the only man whose actually managed to hit Charlie where it counts and get away with it. Why destroy a perfectly good asset when you can turn it to your favor? Especially one as unique and valuable as Parson.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:44 pm 
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    Atomic wrote:
    AHEM. TBfGK Spoiler:
    Spoiler: show
    As per Page 159 of Book 1, there's no confusion that the GMtTA and Maggie are on the same side...which was already made quite clear by the text update. There's no debate to be had. SERVED. :lol:


    Could we get a link, or some specifics?

    I looked at the archive. The page you refer to does not exist. There is an IMAGE with that number, all about decrypting. Maybe before you proclaim something "SERVED" you could post something that makes sense?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:55 pm 
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    Masennus wrote:
    Could we get a link, or some specifics?

    I looked at the archive. The page you refer to does not exist. There is an IMAGE with that number, all about decrypting. Maybe before you proclaim something "SERVED" you could post something that makes sense?

    It's part of the bonus material in the physical copy of TBfGK... I really like if Rob could clarify what we can/cannot post from the book, though. I spoiled it, because of the plot-heavy repercussions, but how much are we allowed to say on the forums? Even in spoilers, I don't wanna just give away an entire page of content.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:54 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary
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    I still havent gotten my book 1 in yet. :(

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:28 am 
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    Location: at the front of my computer. doh!
    reading agian some old pages of book two, I noticed that many haggar soldiers also have white eyes. what about a haggar caster, trying to avenge the croak of sammy?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:33 am 
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    Geordy wrote:
    Housellama, if Charlie listened in on Parson and Wanda before his talk with Tram - why didnt he tell him the whole plan? He could have easily prevented the whole mess.
    The cost to Charlie would have been beyond huge. For him to detail the entire plan would mean he'd have to fess up to how he found out... and/or Tram is easily smart enough to figure it out.

    I.e. all Charlie had to do was tell the entire world that he can listen in on any thinkgram conversation. He tried very hard to get Tram to act without telling him why. Even retrospectively, the cost in letting him know exactly what was going on would have been too high. Charlie will have other opportunities to deal with Wanda and Parson.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:10 am 
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    Atomic wrote:
    Masennus wrote:
    Could we get a link, or some specifics?

    I looked at the archive. The page you refer to does not exist. There is an IMAGE with that number, all about decrypting. Maybe before you proclaim something "SERVED" you could post something that makes sense?

    It's part of the bonus material in the physical copy of TBfGK... I really like if Rob could clarify what we can/cannot post from the book, though. I spoiled it, because of the plot-heavy repercussions, but how much are we allowed to say on the forums? Even in spoilers, I don't wanna just give away an entire page of content.


    Ahhh thanks for the clarification. I kinda feel like a dick. I totally forgot about the print edition and its extras. Thanks for not being more specific!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:52 pm 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    Chewie could very easily interpret "don't work for non-royals" to be equivalent to "work against non-royals". If a non-royal pays him well to attack another non-royal, especially one breaking the neutrality of the MK, it seems like it could easily fall into enough of a gray area to satisfy his oath.

    But this means that the GMtTA will open fire on Chewie to protect Parson, and the neutrality of the MK will be immediately shattered. Mages are going to take sides. And most, I'll wager, will initially side against GK, based on their previous reactions (cutting of healing scrolls, giving Sizemore the cold shoulder, etc.)


    We have a winner.

    The magic kingdom must break before there is peace. Those in service to Charlie, and those in service to the Great Minds.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:40 pm 
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    A Predictamancer wrote:
    MarbitChow wrote:
    Chewie could very easily interpret "don't work for non-royals" to be equivalent to "work against non-royals". If a non-royal pays him well to attack another non-royal, especially one breaking the neutrality of the MK, it seems like it could easily fall into enough of a gray area to satisfy his oath.

    But this means that the GMtTA will open fire on Chewie to protect Parson, and the neutrality of the MK will be immediately shattered. Mages are going to take sides. And most, I'll wager, will initially side against GK, based on their previous reactions (cutting of healing scrolls, giving Sizemore the cold shoulder, etc.)


    We have a winner.

    The magic kingdom must break before there is peace. Those in service to Charlie, and those in service to the Great Minds.


    One minor change. Instead of "If a non-royal pays him well to attack another non-royal", as has been pointed out Charlie probably didn't pay him. It has been repeatedly said Charlie could just drop the information to Jeftichew, that way Jeftichew is not "working for a non-royal". I would modify that to suggest Charlie probably got Jeftichew/Bea's leftover forces to pay *him* for the information somehow, whether cash or services owed! Charlie doesn't do anything for free, and Jeftichew would certainly see "buying information from a non-royal" differently to "working for a non-royal".

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:43 pm 
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    skarl wrote:
    reading agian some old pages of book two, I noticed that many haggar soldiers also have white eyes. what about a haggar caster, trying to avenge the croak of sammy?


    That might explain the scruffy beard, too - Haggarites (Haggarers? Haggars? Haggarmen?) seem to have nice long beards.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:58 pm 
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    Casters don't generally continue trying to fight for their sides after they are ended though, that we've seen at least..

    Else wouldn't Marie be helping Faq? Instead shes helping the side that ended it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 10:58 pm 
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    It should also be noted that Charlie is not only "non-Royal," he is in the eyes of the world a Toolist. If any of Bea's casters worked for a non-Royal side, it would DEFINITELY not be Charlie. Him just dropping information wouldn't work as he is notoriously secretive and manipulative, and it would come across as an attempt to further some Toolist scheme. Sammy knew Charlie had his own agenda, Tramennis knows, and Jillian knows (and of course GK knows) but one's dead, one's incapacitated, one's under nondisclosure and one's not talking to anyone. So for a caster in the MK, having been made to swear only to serve Royal sides (and presumably with a strong reason to hate Toolists) Charlie would be toxic. I doubt they'd even hear him out.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:39 pm 
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    Tesslyn wrote:
    Casters don't generally continue trying to fight for their sides after they are ended though, that we've seen at least..

    Else wouldn't Marie be helping Faq? Instead shes helping the side that ended it.


    I still have my pet theory that this whole arc is a plan put in motion by Banhammer to try and end the constant warfare on Erf and try to bring about a worldwide 'bubble kingdom' where fighting is unnecessary or pointless. In the course of their plan they realized that Faq would have to end - hence the popping of Jillian to re-establish the side later. Banhammer was willing to die to make the plan come to fruition - I imagine Marie has a similar commitment as well.

    re: former Unaroyal Casters not working for Charlie. As we have already seen, Charlie has manipulated things so that he was able to pay for Vanna to work for Faq. It is not unlikely that he has found a way to contract out Jeftichew as well without violating his oath to Queen Bea.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:40 am 
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    I doubt ban planned that. I think he was just a casualty and those who survived carried on.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:48 am 
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    Housellama wrote:
    Charlie doesn't want him dead. In descending order of desirability, Charlie wants Parson to choose to turn, turned by force in the field, captured alive and returned to Charlescomm, incapacitated and returned to Charlescomm and last and definitely least, killed. The secondary goal is the mathamancy bracer, but that's a lesser goal than the acquisition of Parson, the only man whose actually managed to hit Charlie where it counts and get away with it. Why destroy a perfectly good asset when you can turn it to your favor? Especially one as unique and valuable as Parson.


    I would have agreed with you right up until the end of book one.

    Since the apocalypse Parson released to end TBfGK -- and especially in light of the urgency of Charlie's conversations with Tramennis and Jillian -- I think there's a case to be made that Charlie has begun to recognize just how unpredictably dangerous and dangerously unpredictable Parson might be, even on his side.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 60
     Post Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:38 am 
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    Just took a look at the forums for the first time and figured i would jump in :D

    nth wrote:
    Housellama wrote:
    Since the apocalypse Parson released to end TBfGK -- and especially in light of the urgency of Charlie's conversations with Tramennis and Jillian -- I think there's a case to be made that Charlie has begun to recognize just how unpredictably dangerous and dangerously unpredictable Parson might be, even on his side.


    To me, it looks more like Charlie is going after Wanda specifically, and hasn't changed his mind with regard to Parson. His recent conversation with Jillian, and his manipulation of events to try and kill Ansom, were both geared toward getting her to go back and finish off Wanda by removing complications. Note also that the plan they used to attack Spacerock could have been predicted pretty easily given the situation (it was implied to be their only real shot), and the trap sprung left Wanda particularly in a really bad spot.

    Charlie being heavily focused on Wanda makes sense to me. In the status quo, pre-decrypting, he was unconditionally in charge, extorting clients however he wanted with them unable to do anything in response. He has shown great interest in getting his hands on a decrypted archon, with it implied that its because he wants to figure out what exactly they are. And its the decrypted that have upset the balance of things, not Parson. It's Ansom's battle strategies that have been used for GK in their current conquest spree, and while a good commander, he wasn't a game-breaker (Parson crushed him after all). But with Wanda, we have a Tool user who could rival him in power, or perhaps surpass him if left unchecked. His current scheming, even willing to invest his own cash into supporting a caster to pull it off, make most sense to me interpreted in that light.

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