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 Post subject: Turns: Continuity error?
 Post Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Quick question regarding bodies:

"Corpses which aren't uncroaked or moved just disappear at the start of the next turn."
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F077a.jpg

Yet, Ansom doesn't disappear, and he was decrypted after Gobwin Knob's turn started. A new dwagon popped and everything. He was moved by Wanda, so I'm okay with that. But all of the croaked units from the volcano are still there the next morning.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F144.jpg

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     Post Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:01 pm 
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    It depends on whether Parson was using the most accurate phrase to describe the effect. I'd interpret his use of "next turn" in that Klog as "next turn of the side on whom's turn the unit was initially croaked." So, the volcano-croaked units were killed during the RCC's (Jetstone's) turn and wouldn't naturally disappear until Jetstone's next turn, after Gobwin Knob's. After all, it'd be hard to effectively uncroak units if your caster always had to happen to be right on top of them.

    So, why wasn't Parson more accurate? Because he's writing for himself, he knows what he means, and the phrase I had to use to be accurate was really *boop*ing clunky.

    Another theory that has been put forward is that Sizemore moved the bodies while he was busy pushing up gem deposits.

    One final thing to note is that we have no idea what constitutes "moving" a body. Acting upon it in any way, even if that doesn't cause it to change position? Shifting it slightly? Moving it within a hex? Moving it to a new hex? Moving it a certain distance?

    I think this falls more under the umbrella of "Game Mechanics We Do Not Yet Understand" than "Continuity Error"

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     Post Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:32 pm 
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    I noticed this too, but until more of the rules are discovered and explained we can't make any assumptions. I believe the rules of erfworld are consistant but since we don't have them all written down they may seem not to be.

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     Post Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:12 pm 
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    THE ARKENHAMMER wrote:
    Quick question regarding bodies:

    "Corpses which aren't uncroaked or moved just disappear at the start of the next turn."
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F077a.jpg


    From the wiki, the rule is that they disappear at the start of their side's next turn. Thus Ansom would disappear at the start of Jetstone's turn. It is unclear how they handle units of sides where their alliance status changes. However, the RCC's turn was after GK, so GK should get a turn with the corpses.

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     Post Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:04 am 
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    I know everyone hates grammar cowboys and I don't care. This is too much:
    Bobby Archer wrote:
    whom's

    No, No, No! "Whose", for boop's sake!

    Continuing my crusade against the growing abuse of "whom" and "whomever".

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     Post Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:59 am 
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    There's another possibility. Keeping a corpse is a matter of claiming it. The original text said "move", but Rob used the term "Claim" later.If Sizemore passed throught he portal during the night, he might have "Claimed" all the corpses for Wanda. Or Wana went through while P was unconscious and claimed them, and then went back to the MK for P.

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     Post Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:09 pm 
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    Arkenputtyknife wrote:
    I know everyone hates grammar cowboys and I don't care. This is too much:
    Bobby Archer wrote:
    whom's

    No, No, No! "Whose", for boop's sake!

    Continuing my crusade against the growing abuse of "whom" and "whomever".


    Oops.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:03 pm 
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    "Corpses which aren't uncroaked or moved just disappear at the start of the next turn."

    I think it's pretty obvious, that this should be read to mean:

    "Corpses which aren't uncroaked or moved just disappear at the start of the original owning Side's next turn."

    Otherwise, the entire discipline of Croakamancy simply couldn't exist. Parson couldn't have put "3,000 uncroaked Jetstone infantry" on the walls of GK, if those infantry's bodies had disappeared at the start of his Side's turn, now could he? :)

    Further, the original owner has an opportunity to uncroak his own units - hence, Stanley's entire command corps is comprised of Uncroaked warlords, when Parson has first arrived. So "at the start" must not mean "at the instant the Turn begins". It's probably just during an early phase of the turn. (Which itself implies that some actions within your own turn are order-of-operation limited ... another place Parson might be able to stick a wedge into the rules of Erfworld, and "cheat" a little bit.)

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     Post Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:07 pm 
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    Similar to the phases in Magic: The Gathering. Nobody actually plays by the academic rules, involving formally passing priority and announcing each phase, but the rules are there nevertheless.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:05 pm 
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    Pax wrote:
    Further, the original owner has an opportunity to uncroak his own units - hence, Stanley's entire command corps is comprised of Uncroaked warlords, when Parson has first arrived. So "at the start" must not mean "at the instant the Turn begins". It's probably just during an early phase of the turn. (Which itself implies that some actions within your own turn are order-of-operation limited ... another place Parson might be able to stick a wedge into the rules of Erfworld, and "cheat" a little bit.)

    This isn't necessarily true - the victorious side holds the hex during the same turn as the battle was fought, and could potentially uncroak before ending turn.

    Vampires work this way in Heroes of Might and Magic - reanimating corpses only at the end of victorious battles.

    Edit: Oh, doh, forgot how far-ranging my browsing was this afternoon. Sorry for the two-week bump for a nitpick.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:27 am 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    From the wiki, the rule is that they disappear at the start of their side's next turn. Thus Ansom would disappear at the start of Jetstone's turn. It is unclear how they handle units of sides where their alliance status changes. However, the RCC's turn was after GK, so GK should get a turn with the corpses.
    Note the significance of this.

    This means that you always have a chance to move someone in to uncroak other side's corpses -- but you will never get a chance to move someone in to uncroak or decrypt your own corpses. In particular, if every GK unit in a hex is wiped out during GK's turn somehow (nobody around to move the bodies), Wanda has to get there before the end of that turn or she won't get a chance to decrypt them -- and if every GK unit in a hex is killed on anyone else's turn, Wanda will never get a chance to decrypt them, because they'll be gone when she gets a chance to move.

    This limits the power of the Arkenpliers severely -- assuming you can bring back decrypted units a second time at all, Wanda will only be able to do it when she's attacking (and only to the extent that she can rush around that turn.) When she's defending, she'll only be able to re-decrypt her units if they die in her current hex.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:32 pm 
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    Uncroaking/decrypting appears to be intended primarily for use on enemy corpses. This is odd, though. It means you have to bring the Croakamancer to the front lines...And don't you usually keep casters at the back? Every rule has an exception, I suppose.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:50 pm 
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    Maldeus wrote:
    Uncroaking/decrypting appears to be intended primarily for use on enemy corpses. This is odd, though. It means you have to bring the Croakamancer to the front lines...And don't you usually keep casters at the back? Every rule has an exception, I suppose.


    The first time we hear of uncroaking is when Stanley orders Wanda to uncroak Manpower - former Chief Warlord. Wanda takes a dragon, uncroaks him and then they fly back to GK.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:08 pm 
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    Still, having a unit like a dwagon on hand isn't exactly common. How many Sides have mounts like that?

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     Post Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:07 am 
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    Like dwagons? None, in the sense that dwagons are the fastest and most powerful.

    But we know there are gwiffons and magic carpets and Transylvitans can fly on their own.

    We don't know what sides can access flying mounts, but then, we don't know that any of them have Croakamancers either.

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     Post Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:32 pm 
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    Guys, don't forget that all it takes is for someone to claim the corpses to retain them, and then they do not disappear. Ansom and co. did not disappear because Sizemore, Maggie, and Wanda returned to GK before Turn started at dawn, and so would have been able to say, "We claim all of the corpses in GK this Turn." That's enough to prevent de-pop.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:49 am 
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    Is it? What's the source?

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     Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:08 pm 
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    WoT and look it up in the Wiki.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:29 pm 
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    Kreistor wrote:
    Guys, don't forget that all it takes is for someone to claim the corpses to retain them, and then they do not disappear. Ansom and co. did not disappear because Sizemore, Maggie, and Wanda returned to GK before Turn started at dawn, and so would have been able to say, "We claim all of the corpses in GK this Turn." That's enough to prevent de-pop.
    Kreistor wrote:
    WoT and look it up in the Wiki.


    Actually the wiki page doesn't say anything about that...
    It just say that it has to be claimed, it doesn't say how a body can be claimed, and I don't think we even know how they are yet anyway.

    PS. What does WoT mean? The only thing I can think of is Wheel of Time, War on Terror, or Wall of Text but somehow I don't think those are what you meant.

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     Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:17 pm 
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    I think "claiming" is pretty straight forward. To claim anything, realworld, you pretty much just say "thats mine". Given Erfworld references to realworld, Wanda prolly called "dibs on all corpses in GK controled hexes". It doesn't say anywhere (that I know of) that the claimer has to be in the same hex....

    WoT is Word of the Titans, AFAIK.


    Dent.

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