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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:12 am 
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Caprice wrote:
So, now we get to see what happens if we repeat the Jed experiment with all master-class (or above) casters, plus detailed knowledge of the portal column. I suspect the result is going to be... interesting.
I'm really hoping it turns out that all towers innately speak Hawaiian :mrgreen:
"KAHUNA KOLOHE, I WANT A WORD WITH YOU..."

And I think this update proves that the Thinkamancers have no monopoly on insight (see also the discussions on Roger's views a few pages back) Dollamancy is just as good a framework for understanding the nature of Erfworld - and probably all other branches of magic can make an equal claim.

I'm not so sure about that insight thing. It looked like Dollamancer was only able to form those insights because Big Think was making the resources available to him, in pursuit of a specific goal. Note how the Material was snapped back when he tried exploring outside the requested parameters.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:13 am 
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    I could see Charlie using the Dish to merge with a newly awakened tower.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:14 am 
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    So Claud dislikes his Orders, because he dislikes cheats. I was hoping that was going to lead to him realizing that the Orders he's received are cheats for others to get what they want, but his missing eyes appear to have run off with his spine. His surrender seems to be working out better for him than Ivan's stubbornness, though; Dollamancer is definitely acting more like the "primary and permanent template" of the whole Big Link than Dirtamancer ever seemed to pull, despite his "Nope."

    This is definitely an intriguing perspective on links, since both the Thinkamancy and another linked discipline are encouraging order and clarity in the link. Maggie's explanations indicate that's usually exclusive to the Thinkamancer, but this is definitely a special case. Perhaps some of the Big Link, say four Thinkamancer units of focus or so, is dedicated to utilizing more of the function of the Dollamancer, letting this order be put into place.

    And since my inner Orders now order an order pun, Dollamancer's imposition of order into the Big Link has put the Smart Material into order beyond anything that has been ordered before. It hasn't just been ordered, it's been Ordered. And, since nothing else has ever been ordered so much that it's in Order rather than in Order, the Big Link is officially the First Order.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:14 am 
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    Whoa. That much information density in a single update just made me feel like I was being pulled into an 8.X!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:15 am 
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    Hmmmm...but don't cities want to be fought over? The last thing Charlie wants is for anybody in the world to assault Charlescomm, and the city itself would disagree with that. Parson and Stanley have both been listening to and respecting Jed the Head, but somehow a sentient tower and Charlie seem like natural enemies fighting for control.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:18 am 
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    This is my favorite page in... I don't know how long. I'm not even a particular fan of Claud. But it does such a good job of bringing together so many ideas that have been hinted at so far. It certainly further cements for me the idea that every magical discipline is a valid framework for understanding the fundamental nature of Erf. I believe that Thinkamancers have a particular benefit in that their discipline allows them to work together much more so than casters of other disciplines (and also perhaps because the expanded consciousness required to truly understand the fabric (sorry) of Erf requires a link, which requires Thinkamancers).

    Also, I think that I would have chosen Spirits in the Material World as the title.

    edit: punctuation, word

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    Last edited by jclark on Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:19 am 
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    HighJumper wrote:
    So Claud dislikes his Orders, because he dislikes cheats. I was hoping that was going to lead to him realizing that the Orders he's received are cheats for others to get what they want, but his missing eyes appear to have run off with his spine. His surrender seems to be working out better for him than Ivan's stubbornness, though; Dollamancer is definitely acting more like the "primary and permanent template" of the whole Big Link than Dirtamancer ever seemed to pull, despite his "Nope."

    This is definitely an intriguing perspective on links, since both the Thinkamancy and another linked discipline are encouraging order and clarity in the link. Maggie's explanations indicate that's usually exclusive to the Thinkamancer, but this is definitely a special case. Perhaps some of the Big Link, say four Thinkamancer units of focus or so, is dedicated to utilizing more of the function of the Dollamancer, letting this order be put into place.

    And since my inner Orders now order an order pun, Dollamancer's imposition of order into the Big Link has put the Smart Material into order beyond anything that has been ordered before. It hasn't just been ordered, it's been Ordered. And, since nothing else has ever been ordered so much that it's in Order rather than in Order, the Big Link is officially the First Order.

    Yes, I im-Poe-sed that on you. And I just Rey-sed the stakes. But I'm Finn-ished now.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:21 am 
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    ftl wrote:
    Wooow. Claud is convinced that the tower will obey his will but... ...Jed isn't exactly obeying Ace. He's working for GK, but not really in a master-slave kind of way.

    This also leads to how Parson can croak Charlie and the game isn't over. It'll be Parson and Jed against a sentient city/tower/portal column with the Dish and infinite juice.


    Jed, imo, is perhaps one of if not the most unconditionally empathetic/compassionate people in Erfworld. He's not necessarily pacifistic, but he's helped Stanley, Bonnie, loves his mom, and even shows signs of caring for others like Sizemore.

    Even if Storybro tower turned out exactly like Jed... wouldn't that be somehow worse for Charlie than an openly hateful tower? A voice constantly telling him to mellow out, calling out his selfishness or manipulation, to stop trying to hurt his dads, in short, being the conscience that he only hears when his mind is at its most distraught?

    And of course, if cities like being fought over... that implies continuation after being conquered. And it has surely been a long time since anyone fought for Charlescomm the city.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:22 am 
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    ftl wrote:
    Wooow. Claud is convinced that the tower will obey his will but... ...Jed isn't exactly obeying Ace. He's working for GK, but not really in a master-slave kind of way.
    Yeah, Material definitely needs to warn him that Dolls can be subverted using Thinkamancy, and Charlie probably has more than enough experience with controlling Dolls through the 'dish.

    Still, that image in the middle of CC's tower shaped in Material....

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:23 am 
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    Man, boop Wanda.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:25 am 
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    I fear this page can be summarised with one short, terrible phrase: Hey guys, watch this!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:25 am 
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    "you and frank were planning to disconnect me and that is something I can't allow to happen"... Hal, 2001

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:27 am 
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    Holy Shnikies...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:27 am 
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    Page 275: In which Wanda looks upon the column-golem and is mildy bored by it.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:28 am 
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    If you can give a portal column a string, why not give it multiple? Why not give it multiple.. which are otherwise going to expire? Someone mentioned Skynet earlier in the thread, who better to play the role of Skynet than the mega-consciousness of the Great Minds, whose entire view of the world filters through the idea of strings?

    Tied to the tower, and thus to the Arkendish, they would be able to extend power over all of Erf... except the Magic Kingdom. And who do we know that is integral to the story, who can move to and from the Magic Kingdom, who shouldn't otherwise be able to? I'm thinking that my guess of the Great Minds incorporating Charlie (using his Carnymancy to survive, and initiating an Erf-wide Charlie-Think Scan) may yet come to pass.

    A Charlie-Think combo exerting influence and enforcing status quo, while Parson flits between Magic Kingdom and Erf as a whole, only protected in his own city because of his own Awoken Tower? Yeah, I could get behind that book.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:28 am 
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    Since Charlie has Charlie Brown signamancy, my sincere hope is that his tower has the sound of a trombone for a voice.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:32 am 
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    Delores Mulva wrote:
    Since Charlie has Charlie Brown signamancy, my sincere hope is that his tower has the sound of a trombone for a voice.


    That is brilliant. Have a tip.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:35 am 
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    Have we all forgotten the original sentient tower, Jed? How he's a giant Easter Island Head? The signamancy to that? "You have disturbed the Old Ones." Now, lets all remember how Charlie referred to the 'Dish? "eldritch sea monster. It's magic was not Fake." Now can we all imagine what happens when the Old Ones and the Eldritch become a pair? That could well be a Titan-Class entity, especially with endless Juice.

    Could this result in the creation of a Fell Titan of some sort?

    Also, that ending... "Yo, Hold my Beer!"

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:40 am 
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    Delores Mulva wrote:
    Since Charlie has Charlie Brown signamancy, my sincere hope is that his tower has the sound of a trombone for a voice.


    Or the voice of Lucy. Then it steals his "football" (the 'Dish).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 274
     Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:40 am 
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    So just like when Parson had the idea to make a tower golem, which he (and the others) didn't really understand -- and maybe don't quite yet -- we now have a new team of linked casters about to try the same thing. BT "Material World" guy has more info on these things it isn't sharing, but does know for sure about Jed.

    Is Jed extra special because of being a capital site city tower? Other cities wouldn't have portal columns, though a city site which isn't active as a capital wouldn't have a portal above ground.

    On a positive note, the trick of making BedrockMan armor seems to be out. A good thing, maybe, as it also means that Charlie can't pull the same trick either. BT is still doomed. Unless the whole Skynet-tower sign pattern can hold their threads, or something?

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