Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 233 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:07 am 
Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
Offline
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:34 pm
Posts: 186
It's interesting, pre-Decrypted Ansom was arguably one of the most arrogant characters in Erfworld (though he had a lot of competition), but now he seems to be on his way to becoming one of the most humble, if still misguided in his assessment of things (particularly due to the Pliers).

Lol, he thinks Vinny and Jillian are in "true love". Now there's a 50/50 shot he's going to watch Vinny slay Albert. Poor Ansom.

Although ... anyone think there's a chance that Vinny and Ansom could both decide to refuse their orders and turn to FAQ? Even given Jillian's sack of GK, neither of them are very happy about the idea of this coup....

It's interesting that in his dream, Parson and Wanda are still the bad guys. Somewhere deep in his subconscious, it seems, he realizes that something isn't right. If only he could shake off the Pliers' mind-slavery like his brother could....

Albert is pretty dumb, basically giving away the the fact that almost everyone is gone right now ... or is he? Vinny is still in the city; why did Albert leave Vinny out of his "hypothetical" situation? Did he want to give Ansom false confidence, or was he just too curious to find out how Ansom would evaluate a fight between the two of them?

I'm amused (and I assume that it's not coincidence) that "Titans' Testament" sounds a lot like "Titans' Testes" :lol:

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:08 am 
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 6:11 pm
    Posts: 6
    Lipkin wrote:
    hobbes wrote:
    Apropos of nothing, but for some reason this update got me thinking about what might happen if you had a 3 caster link between Attuned.

    Such a powerful idea, I can't believe we won't see it at some point. Given what three adept/master casters can do, I'd be interested to know what a Wielder can manage in a link.

    How about Hammer shocking the dish to power a link between the pliers and the shoes?
    Perhaps that's how Parson ends up breaking Erfworld.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:13 am 
    User avatar
    Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user got funny with a rodent This user is a Tool! This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:18 pm
    Posts: 206
    Wow, sort of getting John Wick vibes off of Ansom. He feels like his best days are come and gone and he's just left to stew now... oh and he's a murder-machine that was one thin strand away from straight-up taking on everybody left in the city

    ...and probably winning.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:19 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! This user has been published! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:14 pm
    Posts: 117
    You know you're reading something well written when you are completely familiar with the habit of backing up a bit when the perspective shifts to a new character, and you KNOW it's happening in this update and you KNOW there's no chance this is after the battle for FAQ...

    ...but you still wonder how Albert could have pulled off the victory, off-turn, while Ansom slept.

    _________________
    Boost: Spicymancer's Halloween Competition

    My Best Stuff:
    Between the Puppetmasters - Published!
    HELP BAT 11! - Published! Most popular!
    It's Yer Berth Day - won a competition!
    I Want A Bat 11 Plushie! - well, I like it...

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:23 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:27 am
    Posts: 3
    Somewhere in Ansom's dream there are a great many eyes without a face.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:26 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool!
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:35 am
    Posts: 1772
    Location: Wales... New South Wales
    Frogpop wrote:
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    So many people are only now thinking how good Jillian looks attuned to the Arkenhammer, and yet none have brought up that her last name is Banhammer.

    Her last name is Zamussels.


    Re: page 231 - in the picture of Catterick harassing Ansom, her poleaxe looks a lot more like a spear. Just sayin!

    Nah, "Zamussels" is just Jillian Sue's Sue-do-nym. Her Pen-name, which is mightier than her sword-name.
    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/30

    Charlie's contract explicitly labels Jillian as "Queen Jillian Banhammer".
    Lingo wrote:
    Carl wrote:
    Sir Rigwald Quoting Carl wrote:
    "Carl wrote"]"Also just realised, of course Ansom would fall for Jillian, look how she's dressed. She's a literal Knight in shining armour to him. That deserves a major Daaaawwwwww."

    Or better yet -- a "Knight in Shining Amor" :lol:


    Different spellings in different parts of the world, both are correct.


    Look again, he didn't write "armor" ;)

    Yes he did

    Also, this leaves a funny situation. Who reckon's that Gobwin Knob'll take Faq instead of Transilvito?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:35 am 
    User avatar
    Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user got funny with a rodent This user is a Tool! This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:18 pm
    Posts: 206
    Also did Yongsan get killed with his own weapon? That's kind of harsh. I imagine him stabbing out and missing with the pike, followed by Vinny breaking the pole and turning it right back on him.

    Ehhhyuuucck.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:51 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:44 am
    Posts: 172
    Fla_Panther wrote:
    Thoughts while reading the update:

    I'm rather surprised Yongsan said, "Good Luck" to Ansom. Seems almost too nice of a guy ... like Sizemore.

    Seems Ansom could be a good tutor for Albert if things turn out such that they become allies.

    "You already broke out and tried to croak her once!" .... Um, what?? I need more details on that, tyvm.

    Okay, so he thinks he could win ... interesting ... we'll see where that goes.

    Interesting ... she would be his chief warlord, heir, and lover? That's odd. I could see her being a chief warlord, lover, and queen, and maybe heir as well, but the way that was worded ... in stupidworld being heir and lover is uh ... not the currently accepted social norm.

    Also interesting that heirs gaining the signamancy of recent lovers is known in-world, not just a meta observation. I can't remember whether or not it was known in-game before, but if not this seals that.

    "[I]n a wording the King did not wish to repeat." ... I wonder if the wording hinted that he would die.

    I wonder how the pliers were "powerless" against Wanda. At the very least he could've hit her with them. It was a melee weapon, after all. If the story told here is accurate - that she wanted him to touch her with them - then it would make no sense for the pliers to completely miss Wanda. It would just make his rolls so low that instead of hitting her for damage he'd just graze her or something.

    Oh. Yeah, the rescue. Yeah, with Vinny AND Ansom Albert's pretty booped.

    Okay, on to the comments.

    Belay that. I did glance at the first page of comments before posting this and Carl mentioned how this duplicates the hammer not hitting Jillian. That definitely does lend itself to some interesting discussion. Since Jillian is on her way to Spacerock right now it seems things are going to get a lot more interesting than we thought before the end of this book. Well ... the team may wrap up one major arc and leave the other as a cliffhanger to be picked up in the next book. So maybe we get some partial resolution re: Wanda and then leave off with Jillian at Spacerock's door. Or leave off with her having just croaked Stanley, looking forward to whatever could come after.

    Ansom is taling about here: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+1/133

    He tried to attack Wanda with the pliers.

    He did not succeed.

    At all. Not even a graze or miss.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:00 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:55 am
    Posts: 2
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    A long list of quotes wrote:
    "Also just realised, of course Ansom would fall for Jillian, look how she's dressed. She's a literal Knight in shining armour to him. That deserves a major Daaaawwwwww."
    ---
    Or better yet -- a "Knight in Shining Amor" :lol:
    ---
    Different spellings in different parts of the world, both are correct.
    ---
    Look again, he didn't write "armor" ;)

    Yes he did

    No, actually he didn't. He wrote "Amor" -- A - M - O - R. No R between A and M. This word, "amor", means "love" or "loved one" in Spanish. That's the joke.

    ---
    On another note, I'm curious about Ansom considering escaping. Doesn't the contract require GK not to harm FAQ except as "reasonable" defense should FAQ attack GK? Escaping and taking FAQ, or even assisting in the current takeover by a non-signatory non-agent, doesn't seem like "reasonable" "defense of interests" against "further aggression by FAQ".

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:35 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:53 am
    Posts: 61
    Lingo wrote:
    Although ... anyone think there's a chance that Vinny and Ansom could both decide to refuse their orders and turn to FAQ? Even given Jillian's sack of GK, neither of them are very happy about the idea of this coup....


    No.

    Ansom hasn't turned when Jillian was around to ask him. In fact, he has proven willing to sacrifice his own life to try and kill her. Turning to her side when she's not even there to offer it? Because of what, prince mopes-a-lot?

    Vinny might have turned BEFORE breaking alliance, but doing it after he has proven himself willing to stab J in the back? That wouldn't make any sense. She might well execute him (or banish him to run some minor city) because of that. Also, even if he likes Albert well enough, turning to FAQ would likely mean serving under him eventually. Going from cheif warlord of a major side, to being commanded by some kid you've mentored for a few weeks? That's a big step down, even if it comes with a load of hot, crazy Jillian-lovin' on the side.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:41 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:22 pm
    Posts: 494
    So I'm really hoping we get to see something come up in the text updates prior to book 4. There's a lot of book 1 being mentioned here, but Vinny and Ansom are meeting for the first time since the Battle for Gobwin Knob. How long will it take for them to get to that three-cask talk? I think it'll be very interesting for them to talk about a Titanic mandate after Ansom completely changes his mind about who exactly the Titans want in charge of everything.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:43 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:12 pm
    Posts: 6
    Stanley is about 20 times cooler than Jillian.
    He deserves to have his hammer, she should fall off a GGwiff.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:51 am 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:15 pm
    Posts: 1446
    Lingo wrote:
    Albert is pretty dumb, basically giving away the the fact that almost everyone is gone right now ... or is he? Vinny is still in the city; why did Albert leave Vinny out of his "hypothetical" situation? Did he want to give Ansom false confidence, or was he just too curious to find out how Ansom would evaluate a fight between the two of them?


    Albert is level 1. So yes, he's pretty dumb, and pretty weak. Presumably as he levels up he'll get better in a variety of ways (if he survives long enough to do so). I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt yet about "instilling false confidence" or anything like that - he asked the question he wanted answered, maybe gave away some strategic info in the process or maybe not, but I doubt he had much subterfuge in him.

    _________________
    For those in the USA: Have you wondered what you would do during in the civil rights movement, or in the 1930s?

    Well, what did you do yesterday? Now you know.

    Let's all be the kind of people we wish everyone had been then. Show up. Call. Resist.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:09 am 
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:54 am
    Posts: 66
    Hehe, a Jillian update without too much of the annoying Jillian.

    Good job Vinny, first getting Ansom out, not even breaking a sweat. The city is yours for the taking!

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:43 am 
    User avatar
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:47 am
    Posts: 1126
    WLM: zilfallon@hotmail.com
    Location: Magic Kingdom
    Jillian & the Hammer? Yes, this story definitely needs her to have a more central role. That would totally be awesome.

    /sarcasm off

    it isn't page 10 yet but screw it


    Seriously, even when she isn't directly involved in the update, simply being mentioned manages to annoy me, because, as expected, everyone loves and worships the backstabbing Mary Sue.

    _________________
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:17 am 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 1:16 am
    Posts: 1
    Carl wrote:
    :shock:

    This is the first time we've had it stated or even implied that the arkenpliers refused to work vs Wanda at GK. Hells Bells this is big. I think e can take it as given that jillian is supposed to get the Arkenhammer at some point.

    I also have to wonder how he's going to respond to being rescued given his little internal revelation.

    This does seem to at least confirm Fate still has somthing in mind for Wanda, though as we've seen allready, maybe not the obvious.



    That's not the first time, it's actually in book one.

    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+1/133

    First frame. "Uff... Ungh! Here! What have you done to it?"

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:51 am 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter IRC Quote of the Moment Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 8:31 pm
    Posts: 30
    C9H20 wrote:
    Titan wrote:
    New One is up.


    Dat Wanda pic

    11/10 would obey as mistress


    Tipped, on the assumption that this is a We Rate Dogs homage.

    We Rate Dogs is the second best thing on the Internet, after Erfworld.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:53 am 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter This user posted the comment of the month
    Offline
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:01 pm
    Posts: 108
    Count_to_10 wrote:
    And Ansom has to walk by the corps of the guard that was civil to him.

    I'm not sure what the odds are that Ansom somehow defends Faq from TV, but I don't think it is zero.
    I'm hoping Ansom quietly claims the body in the hopes of Decryption later. I've been surprised by how much humanity Ansom's evolved into having.

    elecampane wrote:
    This update really confirms that Vinnie is kind of Albert's dad, which makes the betrayal worse. I still hope that after taking the city they will hash it out and Albert will turn (after losing a fight, perhaps).
    I'd love to believe Ansom and Vinnie will take Albert prisoner, kick back some drinks, and get some fathers-son bonding in. I can't convince myself it's even vaguely possible. Albert's signamancy and recent events... well, he's a rebellious teenager who just got disillusioned with his father, possibly just rejected Sides as a thing, and is sitting outside with two guys on the gummy flying Erfworld version of motorcycles.

    If Jillian's anarchist son formed a barbarian biker gang (which might balloon into something huge if the comic lasts another decade), I not only wouldn't be surprised, but I'd find it kind of fitting. It'd be great getting the upkeep/foraging/hunting/farming rules cleared up, too, since the comic's bounced between acquiring food obviating upkeep and reducing upkeep.

    elecampane wrote:
    Also, does that mean that TV's heir will have Vanna's signamany?
    Or will the heir have Queen Bea's signamancy, as Don has been in love with her since forever and the heir reminding of her would certainly be Don's desire?
    Those are really good questions, considering Albert looks like he's got a little bit of Ansom's signamancy (that chin!).

    ShaneTheBrain wrote:
    I don't know why I didn't see this earlier, but Jillian is definitely a candidate to attune to the Arkenhammer. 'Hammer wielders are all about "Smash first, ask questions later/never." Jillian and Stanley both charge into situations without really thinking them through and letting their natural talents somehow carry the day, but also have sort of a feral cunning when it comes to bigger strategy.
    I wonder if we'll get one of those "In another world, we could have been friends" moments.

    hobbes wrote:
    Apropos of nothing, but for some reason this update got me thinking about what might happen if you had a 3 caster link between Attuned.

    Such a powerful idea, I can't believe we won't see it at some point. Given what three adept/master casters can do, I'd be interested to know what a Wielder can manage in a link.
    If the stars are right, maybe they can kill death.

    Mystic_A wrote:
    And then, just as he feels he's found peace with himself, and just after accepting his current situation, Vinny betrays Jillian, sets him free, and all his ideas about reality fall apart.
    I dunno, I think this might go the other way. Ansom is changing into a real person; he's seeing the good ways life could be, rather than remaining a game piece thinking about his numbers; and now he's seeing how the game is trying to subvert that. Maybe this will steel his resolve to break the game.

    A big part of Erfworld that is Erfworld is a game that a world happens in. Royals are better than other units, High Elves are all a bunch of stoners, et cetera... but not because of some reflection of real world opinions. It's a reflection of the oversimplification that goes into making games so everything isn't dragged out during play by granular realism where every character has to be spelled out for the players. Parson is a totally foreign element --depth of character beyond filling a role-- being introduced to that world and corrupting ("breaking") it.

    Erfworld is not commentary on real life, it's a deconstruction on characterization within gaming. I see that distinction missed a lot in discussions, with people trying to make direct comparisons between portrayals of some units and stereotyping/[miscellaneous-isms] from real life sociology. It's very difficult to snap people out of that, which is one of many reasons why I lurk a lot more than I post. (I'm not lumping you into that crowd, I've just been thinking this for a while, and your post led to a segway to this.)

    _________________
    .

    RPG Erfworld - Stack Management Mechanics suggestion

  • Tipped by 9 people!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:11 am 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:18 am
    Posts: 17
    One detail I find interesting is how Wanda appeared in Ansom's dream. The image shows her smiling, and he describes her as laughing. We know the real Wanda has only laughed once outside of book 0, and that was when she finally attuned. I wonder if this is indicative of how he perceives her, or if it's otherwise significant.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 231
     Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:20 am 
    Offline
    Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:19 pm
    Posts: 178
    You know despite Ansom not knowing if he's alive or a person as opposed to a golem this was a very interesting update, maybe the most interesting this year yet.

    We've got a dream loaded with symbolism about a possible side, great fodder for fanfics, also the name once again points to Ansom being religious a crusader/paladin sort.

    We've got a new prophecy but which has already been fulfilled, though I have to say how did Slately and Ansom get the idea that he might attune to the hammer, the hammer doesn't show up at all in the text of the prophecy.

    Ansom doesn't seem surprised that Albert looks like Vinny and is mostly drawing the right conclusions about Jillian and Vinny from it, so I guess heirs getting signamancy from their parent's lover is something that was known to be a thing but we hadn't seen being brought up.

    Also about Queen Bea, Don you sly dog you got that babe to fall for you ;) if only you guys wouldn't have been both monarchs and thus unable to meet in person.

    This does bring up an older theory of mine, Ossomer's signamancy is obviously based on Superman but in universe the visual difference between him and Ansom and Tremmenis could be explained that Slately ordered him poped after his lover the Dollamancer died.

    Or to put it another way both Ansom and Tremmenis owe some part of their signamancy to the Dollamancer their father was sleeping with.

    And if we're on the business of lovers, I don't see it strange that Ansom would have had Jillian as CW/heir/lover, heir status doesn't mean you have to be related and as obviously Ansom and Jillian were not related them being lovers would be no big deal.

    Also a call back to Ansom being in love (or at least in lust, see her showing up in the dream) with Wanda, it's interesting that he never acknowledges this except to himself, almost like he's ashamed ?

    Does Wanda know ?

    Can she read her non-Archon dekrypted without thinkamancy?

    Some channels are always open like we saw her streaming them her music for the dance fight in the MK.

    Interesting that piker that kept asking lewd questions like she'd been interesting in Ansom, like Queen like subjects it seems.

    Ansom seems to have a good handle on Albert, he obviously seems to see much of himself in him due to their similar starts in life, it's interesting to see Albert fan-girling over a level 10 Prince CW and looking forward to his future, it's good to remind us that getting to level 10 like Ansom and Caesar means something.

    I hope we get an text update from Vinny's perspective about meeting up with Ansom again, I'm curious what he thinks of the dekrypted Ansom does he see him like a resurrected and turned Ansom like Trem does or does he take a Jillian view and sees him like a Wanda golem.

    Also things are looking good for Albert in that neither dad or uncle Ansom are keen to end his life.

    I'm not opposed to the ideea of Jillian wielding the hammer I just like Stanely more as a character and think the story would be more fun if he keeps the hammer.

  • Tipped by 1 person!
  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 233 posts ] 

    Board index » Erfworld Things » Reactions


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 21 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: