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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:27 am 
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Windscion wrote:
Kichumen wrote:
OK , playing the Devils advocate here : Doesn`t the same excuse ( do his duty ) apply to Bill ? After all he was ordered to torture her to gain information . And one can argue that he considered this way of torturing her more effective . (while also allowing him to continue his studies , so win win from his perspective )

Actually, he volunteered, knowing that the other command units would be averse to asking for details. Creeeepy.


And his primary concern wasn't to gain info for the side, it was to play with Maggie doll so he could experiment with Thinkmancy and Dollamancy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:28 am 
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    Neizaru wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Imma just gonna put you on my foe list. You don't seem to know what "white knighting" actually is, and also seem to lack basic empathy.

    I'm plenty empathetic for the thousands of victims of constant warfare especially since Parson had a big part in it. I feel sorry for Jack too since no one seems to give a squat about his emotional state other than "looks okay whatever". But I guess if I don't put molestation above all that type of atrocity inside my head that makes me... lacking empathy?

    Ok


    Claming basic facts of war to be atrocities, diminishes the meaning of the word.

    War is horrible. And the scale of the tradgedies therin are so ridiculous that they are difficult to properly comprehend. In order to preserve a shred of sanity we rationalize the horror in different subjective ways and classify them in different ways.

    A soldier killing another soldier, is acually a loss of life that on some level diminishes humanity as a whole, but in war, in combat, its just a fact.
    A soldier going into a house and killing a civilian just for fun, that is also a tragic loss of life, but the constructed rules of war makes it more wrong than a soldier killing another soldier. However these rules also reduces the frequency of the latter, so that it becomes more manageable. But that too can reach frequencies where the emotional response is shut down in order to protect ones sanity. But eventually a dealyed, drawn out psychological response will manifest itself.


    You are also making the assuption that absense of proof is proof of absense.
    I.e. if it is not specifically mentioned somewhere in the story that Parson expresses concern for Jack's well-being; then he simply doesn't care even when circumstances makes caring plausible even if it wasn't expressively mentioned.

    I magine this: You and someone close to you are captured and put in the same cell. For several days the only things you can do is eat, sleep, talk with your friend and think in moments of silence. Sometimes you are seperated and both subjeced to physical abuse, before you are united again. What is the likelyhood that a status-check type conversation doesn't take place at some point?

    Also a second close friend of you was also captured. But this someone is kept imprisoned away from you. Alone (most likely). You don't see them for days. You ask your captors about them, but don't get any answers. There are several hours in a day, and time moves slowly, and occationally you are left to your own thoughts. You wonder about your second friend. Your brain demands answers, and eventually your brain deducts some theories from the straws that are grasped. Your friend is alone. Why is your friend isolated? Are they subject to the same abuse? Or even worse abuse??
    Days pass in what feels like an eternity in this dark, dull cell. Your mind can go to some very dark places...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:37 am 
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    Neizaru wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    No, I think it's hypocrisy that 90% of his thoughts are hovering over only one friend (Jack been tortured as well? Who cares, man up) where it should be concerned about everything. Especially since Wanda's about to be executed in few hours, which incidentally will also badly hurt his friend(s) chances of survival. Power of boner more important though.

    Well, Parson and Jack went through largely the same experience as far as torture goes and spent their time as prisoners together, so I think it's safe to assume that Parson has a pretty good handle on how Jack took things.

    Maggie on the other hand was kept isolated from them, and Parson knows that Bill did something very different to her than Caesar did to him and Jack. He has no comparable experience himself and didn't have the opportunity to talk with her and watch her during their imprisonment. I can definitely see how Parson would be more worried about one of his friends than about the other.

    As for Wanda's imminent execution... Did you even read the update? Parson and Maggie are attempting to establish a means of communication for their side so that Parson can finally get some intel on what's going on, start contacting people who might be able to help, and generally try to fix things. He's working on it. Do you want a paragraph where he agonises about Wanda and what losing her could mean for the side? If so, we got the gist of it on page 226 already.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:48 am 
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    Quote:
    Fucking everyone knows that when a woman says "I'm fine" she's so totally not.

    This a very big assumption you're making here, just don't know what to say anymore.
    Quote:
    snip

    You're not even addressing my points anymore.
    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    Yeah, but your argument was quoted out of context, divorcing it from any of it's intended meaning

    I'll say it straight then:

    Jill's a plot device. She has no room in (which I'm assuming is) a mature story and the mind spell excuse goes only so far. Her entire character doesn't do her any favors either. As for how this ties in to the discussion the motivations are flawed, destructive and there never seems to be any really heavy consequences. That's why I remain skeptical.


    Last edited by mexp on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:52 am 
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    Wow, the update seemed so non-provocative and calm, and the first pages of the thread were so jokingly relaxed. And now, on page 5, the conversation is rapidly descending into "is Erfworld sexist"-worthy warfare. Guys, please, don't do it. It was painful enough the first time it happened.

    P.S.: it is well established in-comic that Parson is weird about girls and sex. I find it completely in-character for him to react irrationally about sexual assault, even though he'd been more calm about units dying. Not that I agree that worrying about your always-calm friend, who was abused, is irrational. Or that Parson thinks specifically about sexual abuse, with no torture involved

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:00 am 
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    elecampane wrote:
    P.S.: it is well established in-comic that Parson is weird about girls and sex.


    He's not really weird, he's just cognizant of the fact that ordering a female unit into bed removes their agency making it impossible to consent, though Janis did explain an obvious loophole. That said, hitting on a War Lady from another faction would also solve that moral dilemma fairly neatly for him.

    elecampane wrote:
    Wow, the update seemed so non-provocative and calm, and the first pages of the thread were so jokingly relaxed.


    Just ignore Neizaru.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:02 am 
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    Just occurred to me: After reading those notes, Parson is now aware that they're all puppets, man.

    The fact that Fate makes everything turn into a pun only proves it.
    elecampane wrote:
    Wow, the update seemed so non-provocative and calm, and the first pages of the thread were so jokingly relaxed. And now, on page 5, the conversation is rapidly descending into "is Erfworld sexist"-worthy warfare. Guys, please, don't do it. It was painful enough the first time it happened.

    P.S.: it is well established in-comic that Parson is weird about girls and sex. I find it completely in-character for him to react irrationally about sexual assault, even though he'd been more calm about units dying. Not that I agree that worrying about your always-calm friend, who was abused, is irrational. Or that Parson thinks specifically about sexual abuse, with no torture involved

    If there's one thing I don't like more than tired arguments it's people getting meta about tired arguments. Go back to Doctor Wiley, Meta-Man

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:03 am 
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    My tongue-in-cheek hyperbole struck someone speechless? I'm sure that will last.

    SP86 wrote:
    elecampane wrote:
    P.S.: it is well established in-comic that Parson is weird about girls and sex.

    He's not really weird, he's just cognizant of the fact that ordering a female unit into bed removes their agency making it impossible to consent, though Janis did explain an obvious loophole. That said, hitting on a War Lady from another faction would also solve that moral dilemma fairly neatly for him.

    He was pretty weird with Janis when he thought she was coming on to him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:03 am 
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    elecampane wrote:
    Wow, the update seemed so non-provocative and calm, and the first pages of the thread were so jokingly relaxed. And now, on page 5, the conversation is rapidly descending into "is Erfworld sexist"-worthy warfare. Guys, please, don't do it. It was painful enough the first time it happened.

    P.S.: it is well established in-comic that Parson is weird about girls and sex. I find it completely in-character for him to react irrationally about sexual assault, even though he'd been more calm about units dying. Not that I agree that worrying about your always-calm friend, who was abused, is irrational. Or that Parson thinks specifically about sexual abuse, with no torture involved


    Bingo bango bongo. Even setting aside Parson's hang ups about sex, and his belief in the importance of agency, there's also the issue that it is a lot easier to get upset about someone you care about being hurt versus the deaths of faceless masses. That's not white knighting, that's human nature.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:06 am 
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    Book 1, page 149/150

    Parson obsesses over the obscenity of Erfworld AND the crap it does to his mind. "I won't be a gamepiece. I'm a player."

    This establishes that, yeah, he has a BIG problem with the slaughter in Erfworld, and a huge hangup about mental molestation, which is what Bill did to Maggie.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:08 am 
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    To change the subject to something interesting, how much do you guys think the rest of transylvito knows about what Bunny learned?

    I'm guessing not much. Bunny probably didn't tell Don about it at all, and she put a very positive spin on it for Caesar. The female warlord probably thinks of it as "caster stuff" and barely glanced at it.

    So I'm guessing those notes will not ruin GK/Transylvito relations unless Benjamin happens to stroll by and leaf through them, which is a definite possibility.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:10 am 
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    SP86 wrote:
    elecampane wrote:
    Wow, the update seemed so non-provocative and calm, and the first pages of the thread were so jokingly relaxed.


    Just ignore Neizaru.

    It's funny how self-inflicted hypnosis has caused us to attribute all the shit Zeku said to Neizaru.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:12 am 
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    Okay, I am now officially in love with Skyy!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:14 am 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    SP86 wrote:
    elecampane wrote:
    Wow, the update seemed so non-provocative and calm, and the first pages of the thread were so jokingly relaxed.


    Just ignore Neizaru.

    It's funny how self-inflicted hypnosis has caused us to attribute all the shit Zeku said to Neizaru.


    Zeku had the good sense to leave though.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:16 am 
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    SP86 wrote:
    elecampane wrote:
    P.S.: it is well established in-comic that Parson is weird about girls and sex.


    He's not really weird, he's just cognizant of the fact that ordering a female unit into bed removes their agency making it impossible to consent, though Janis did explain an obvious loophole. That said, hitting on a War Lady from another faction would also solve that moral dilemma fairly neatly for him.

    I was talking about his previous experiences with girls in stupidworld, his reaction to Maggie's jokes and innuendos, and his reaction when he thought Janice was hitting on him and their talk about love. Can't give you links right now, sorry. Not using your subordinates for sexual pleasure is in no way weird, of course

    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    If there's one thing I don't like more than tired arguments it's people getting meta about tired arguments. Go back to Doctor Wiley, Meta-Man

    And how do you feel about people going meta on going meta on tired arguments, as you just did? Or about people going meta on people going meta on people going meta on tired arguments, as I'm doing in this post? Please, let me know, if only even number of meta-levels are acceptable, I will certainly try to accomodate my posting habits to your dilikes

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:18 am 
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    Anomynous 167 wrote:
    It's funny how self-inflicted hypnosis has caused us to attribute all the shit Zeku said to Neizaru.


    It might be the sleep deprevation, but I just realized that "Neizaru" starts with an 'N' and not a 'Z'.


    On a more serious note though he did follow up in the same sentiment as Zeku and repeated some of the arguments and assumptions.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:20 am 
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    elecampane wrote:
    I was talking about his previous experiences with girls in stupidworld, his reaction to Maggie's jokes and innuendos, and his reaction when he thought Janice was hitting on him and their talk about love. Can't give you links right now, sorry. Not using your subordinates for sexual pleasure is in no way weird, of course


    Fair enough, the big awkward nerd being sexually oblivious is a little on the nose to me though, guess that's why he spent all his time wargaming.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:23 am 
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    This update has given us valuable information. Specifically in regards to Parson's flirting capabilities. It turns out Skyy's the limit. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:26 am 
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    Zeal wrote:
    It turns out Skyy's the limit. :D

    Boom me sideways. Here, have some of my last schmuckers.

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    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 229
     Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:27 am 
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    Zeal wrote:
    This update has given us valuable information. Specifically in regards to Parson's flirting capabilities. It turns out Skyy's the limit. :D

    ...

    Fine! I chuckled, have a Schmucker.

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