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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:11 am 
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It's the little things which make a difference sometimes...

Like a caster who protects a prisoner or a warlord who chooses to trust another instead of fighting the easily won battle.

I think this was a great update in both art and text.

I am kind of curious what a thought bubble could be visually represented as. Based on the description, it seems that a thinkamancer would have a proverbial garden of ideas in their head.

I would like to see an army of mobile golems at Jetstone all controlled by Jed. :jed:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:12 am 
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    lying would have been the worst thing for maggie to do. Parson would inquire about the doll after an alliance was formed and his trust in maggie would be damaged.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:14 am 
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    the_zet wrote:
    I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't notice the font differences from Monday. Also: what does O-backwards-N supposed to mean? Is it a Thinkamancy symbol that Parson recognizes from a between-the-pages event?

    The doll is writing in the air. Presumably she wasn't writing backwards, but rather, Jack was reading it backwards. So when she needed to make sure Parson understood, she reversed it so he could read for himself.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:15 am 
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    Quote:
    He was. in short, a better person than she was

    Grammatical error here.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:20 am 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Nightseraph wrote:
    Whispri wrote:
    The problem with her anti-Wanda 'we're as bad' argument, is that Wanda was given orders by an authority she couldn't disobey. So it was in Transylvito, there is ultimately, someone at the top, ordering the slaves into action, even in the case of the dollamancer. Hamster knows this and her arguments may fall on deaf ears as a result.

    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%201/24
    Wanda was given orders?
    Wanda loves torture and corpses. Just in her nature. She does it for fun, and without orders.
    Caesar did it without orders too, but reluctantly. He needed to be drunk to do it, and didn't take the chance to torture Parson multiple times, when there was nothing stopping him from doing so.
    Ponzi and Wanda have a lot in common. Neither one is doing it for the side, or for someone else.

    You realise that Gillian's her girlfriend and is into that sort of thing, right?

    And of course, the intelligence she gained by seducing her girlfriend would have won the battle if not for Hamster's incompetence and Stanley's refusal to hire Charlie. So no, there is no comparison to be made between her and... was he the long dead vampire prince?

    Edit: P.S. Units are also bound by duty to do their utmost for the side, Stanley and Don both know this.

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    Last edited by Whispri on Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:20 am 
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    the_zet wrote:
    I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't notice the font differences from Monday. Also: what does O-backwards-N supposed to mean? Is it a Thinkamancy symbol that Parson recognizes from a between-the-pages event?
    Writing on air, facing Parson. What was reversed to her would be straight to him.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:21 am 
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    Proposed counterplan: pester Isaac into coming to the TV portal instead; he escorts them to the SR portal under veil (he's an adept Foolamancer). If that's being watched, he instead takes them to the Thinkamancy temple to hide until they can make an alliance by Thinkagram, then they exit via the ally's portal. Sizemore repatriates them if need be.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:23 am 
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    I'm glad to see that things are going down in this manner.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:26 am 
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    Infidel wrote:
    Pretty good. Now he has a rational story driven reason to consider not destroying TV. Instead of a mostly forum driven one.

    I get annoyed with all the forum posts, "He better not do xxx or I will be upset/stop reading/..."



    To be clear, regarding my own "He better not ...", the direction of the Erfworld epic is about bringing compassion, collaboration, bridges and innovation to an otherwise static game world. If Parson were to simply destroy TV, he's effectively destroying the premise of the epic. Whether it was the pragmatic solution of not, to do so without acknowledging the threat to the premise WOULD put me off the story.

    All that being said: Parson HAS "infected" Maggie. I'm SO, SO GLAD she not only is aware of his impact on Erfworld, but also understands what's happening to herself. Parson himself might not win the day in chapter three, but his "infection" will.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:31 am 
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    Hopefully they don't forget to rescind Sizemore's order.

    By the way, for those wondering, "kanakanui" means something like "powerful man."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:38 am 
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    Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:
    Hopefully they don't forget to rescind Sizemore's order.
    Yep, might be awkward standing there with no-one to pich the guns up...
    Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:
    By the way, for those wondering, "kanakanui" means something like "powerful man."

    "person of great size and power". There is also another angle - "abducted to work as a laborer". Also fitting.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:40 am 
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    Yay! As interesting as Plan Genocide may have been, I am even more interested in what Real Plan will pop out of Parson's brain. However, now that he knows about Maggie, I think Parson will make TV pay in some other way for her treatment. Now we get to see the "Bastard Negotiator" side of him... :twisted:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:49 am 
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    So we all missed the significance of "don't wake me." Glad to see Parson probably won't take out TV. Maggie being his moral compass in this instance is interesting.

    Also interesting that Jed took something of a personal interest in Maggie having been tortured, though didn't seem to in the case of Parson and Jack. I wondered while reading if Jed could possibly do something about that, maybe repatriate them at a distance or do something else of interest.

    So assuming Parson will rescind the order to Sizemore and they won't attack, what are they going to do? Possibilities:
    1) Nothing. They talk, return to their cell, and wait for the alliance.
    2) Escape. They contrive some way to make it out through the portal.
    3) Intimidate. They could do something, like leaving a bullet on Don's pillow or whatever, to intimidate him. This seems mostly to be a forum theory and I personally doubt it will happen, but it is possible.
    4) Negotiate. They wake up Bunny, Caesar, or Don for negotiations right then. No direct attempt at intimidation, but merely being out of the cell is kind of scary, right? And they can walk up to any old unit and "request an audience" so the intent isn't mistaken for assassination.
    5) Vanna is still there somewhere. If Maggie tells them, it is possible Parson pays her a visit, or tries to warn Don about her.
    6) Parson may do recon, or send Jack and/or Maggionette to do so. Prepare in case they need to escape or attack at some future time. Maybe steal a weapon, or try to find useful intel. Maybe find the bracer's location, or learn about the layout of the area. Finding "rubicon" could prove useful later, if they know enough to look for it.
    7) Some other plan, or some combination of the above.

    neko wrote:
    Yay! As interesting as Plan Genocide may have been, I am even more interested in what Real Plan will pop out of Parson's brain. However, now that he knows about Maggie, I think Parson will make TV pay in some other way for her treatment. Now we get to see the "Bastard Negotiator" side of him... :twisted:

    I bet her treatment really bites them in negotiations. And his knowledge of it could raise interesting questions... or fears.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:52 am 
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    Maggie played this really well, I think.

    Imagine the potential fallout later, if she had claimed to not be tortured, and then Parson later found out?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:53 am 
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    I hope they don't belay the order to bring guns. I think people are on the right track about Charlie coming sniffing about, and we'll have some literal Chekov's guns lying around for the firefight.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:54 am 
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    Additionally, Vanna is still in play -- what happens if tonight is the night she tries to do more investigation, only to stumble upon empty cells where Parson and Jack used to be?

    (Or conversely, runs into them on the way back, and confirms to Charlie that they're there?)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:58 am 
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    neko wrote:
    Yay! As interesting as Plan Genocide may have been, I am even more interested in what Real Plan will pop out of Parson's brain. However, now that he knows about Maggie, I think Parson will make TV pay in some other way for her treatment. Now we get to see the "Bastard Negotiator" side of him... :twisted:
    Yeah. I don't know what that will be - no idea, for example, how Don would react to being shown, again, how vulnerable he is - but he does need to realize stalling is an unhealthy indulgence of his pride.
    Taejang wrote:
    3) Intimidate. They could do something, like leaving a bullet on Don's pillow or whatever, to intimidate him. This seems mostly to be a forum theory and I personally doubt it will happen, but it is possible.
    Sadly that requires reaching Don's chamber. Likely not even Mags can do it.
    Safer to raid the larder and return to the cell.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:04 am 
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    the_zet wrote:
    and the Charlescomm sigil is in the last piece of artwork.

    It's definitely not a Charlescomm's one, although it looks similar. But the sun in the center and the color gives me the impression that it's kind of an anti-Charlescomm. Maybe Parsonnet ? :hamstard:


    Last edited by hitomi2500 on Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:06 am 
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    Taejang wrote:
    Also interesting that Jed took something of a personal interest in Maggie having been tortured, though didn't seem to in the case of Parson and Jack.


    Wouldn't you take a bit of a personal interest in things if YOUR "mother" had been tortured? Folks forget, not only is Jed a one-off, unique unit in all of Erfworld, but he's also the literal "son" of Maggie's linkup with Sizemore and Ace.

    It's not like they just popped another dwagon or built another cloth golem here... they modified terrain with LIFE.

    Which is an interesting juxtaposition to Maggie's PREVIOUS linkup, which modified a terrain with DEATH... lots and lots of death.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 183
     Post Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:06 am 
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    I want Parson to quote this in response, when he comes to agree with Maggie.

    Quote:
    “We’re in a time when we must choose between what is right and what is easy.”


    I think it's interesting that Maggie says "We can decide for ourselves what rules we follow" whereas Trem cites that he would be incapable of betraying Ansom during parley because he is bound to follow the rules of Royalty.

    It brings to mind a thought I've often had. Is being a good person about seeing the opportunity to do evil, and choosing not to? Or is it not seeing the opportunity at all? (Ignoring for the moment, the existence of evil done out of ignorance)

    Rereading this update it seems to me that if Parson goes along with Maggie, he'll have proved Jojo wrong. He'll have distinctly chosen not to outplay TV and prove he's the best there is.

    In this update, Parson guesses the credo of the Hippies (Peace, Love, and Harmony) without being told. When looking at both those updates, Parson hasn't figured out what he stands for yet. But it seems that not only has Maggie intuited what he stands for, she's internalized it and decided that it's what she wants to stand for too.

    What does Parson stand for, you may ask?

    Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    Parson looks his most defeated when he thinks of a way to destroy his opponent (values life). He refused to take advantage of the Archons because it would override their agency, and is willing to destroy TV for molesting Maggie (values liberty). He'd much rather spend his time gaming than fighting, and values his friends very highly (pursuit of happiness). This is what Parson is about, and Maggie has decided that that is a cause worth fighting for.

    Once has to wonder how Bennie would react if informed of this credo?

    Also of note, this update could be considered Maggie telling Parson to "be true to his number."

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    Last edited by Lipkin on Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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