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 Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:48 am 
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adoomgod wrote:
The thing is Parson will not care, and he will not forgive. Caesar basically promised that nothing else bad will happen to Maggie, and he didn't lie... as he personally did nothing to her. But when Parson finds out what Bill has done, there will be hell to pay.


I'm not sure, man. Maggie might just claim that it taught her a lot about her discipline and not seek revenge for it. As long as Bill doesn't do anything sexual to it, I mean. Meanwhile, Parson make not have the stomach to beat Bill down if he falls apart immediately like when Ponzie brutalized Bill. I don't think Parson can be cold-blooded enough to execute a big lump like that who has the personality of a child.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:50 am 
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    So, anybody else hoping that there weren't any bats in the dungeon during that discussion?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:56 am 
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    I don't believe there will be male bonding. I don't believe Parson will forgive Caesar for torturing him and Jack anytime soon.

    I believe that is the first bed we've seen with mosquito netting.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:02 am 
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    ftl wrote:
    I still believe that the crux of an alliance will come from Maggie and Bunny.

    So far, nothing too bad has happened to Maggie. Bill hasn't gone as far with his Maggie doll as he did with Bunny's back then. So I don't think the TV/GK relation is screwed from that point of view.

    And yeah, it looks like Maggie/Bunny are going to have a chance to connect, and now Caesar/Parson are starting to see eye to eye (literally! See early in the update! Hah)

    But Don is not on level with any of this yet. There's still a rebellion that needs to take place before any of this can be realized.

    I think the missing piece is Bennie and the Bracer. Bunny knows that Don planned to disband Caesar if he refused an order. Bennie just discovered that he can predict the chances that Don will disband a unit. If Caeser and Bunny discuss with Bennie what they've gotten from Parson and Maggie before going to Don, Benny can determine how likely Don will be to listen. If Bennie says that Don won't listen, they would be forced to revolt to save the side from Charlie.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:04 am 
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    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    I don't believe there will be male bonding. I don't believe Parson will forgive Caesar for torturing him and Jack anytime soon.

    I believe that is the first bed we've seen with mosquito netting.

    Parson's a big boy. I think he'd be able to be professional about it. They won't immediately jump to bro hugs, but I think they see eye to eye on a lot.

    And I guess you've never heard of a canopy bed.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:05 am 
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    Any guesses on any "right now" evidence Vinny might be able to supply?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:07 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    I don't believe there will be male bonding. I don't believe Parson will forgive Caesar for torturing him and Jack anytime soon.

    I believe that is the first bed we've seen with mosquito netting.

    Parson's a big boy. I think he'd be able to be professional about it. They won't immediately jump to bro hugs, but I think they see eye to eye on a lot.

    And I guess you've never heard of a canopy bed.


    Parson is from the USA. He doesn't have Erfworlder sensibilities. An American is less likely to let bygones be bygones with his torturer.


    Mosquito netting in Erfworld, I mean. And aren't canopy bed canopies supposed to be opaque, not translucent?

    That's why I thought mosquito netting.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:14 am 
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    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    Parson's a big boy. I think he'd be able to be professional about it. They won't immediately jump to bro hugs, but I think they see eye to eye on a lot.

    And I guess you've never heard of a canopy bed.

    Parson is from the USA. He doesn't have Erfworlder sensibilities. An American is less likely to let bygones be bygones with his torturer.


    Mosquito netting in Erfworld, I mean. And aren't canopy bed canopies supposed to be opaque, not translucent?

    That's why I thought mosquito netting.

    I'm from the USA. Doesn't mean I'd become determined to tear his side to the ground.

    As for canopy beds, it varies. And that would be pretty useless mosquito netting anyway, because it's open on top.

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    Last edited by Lipkin on Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:14 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Just had a bit of fridge logic. Was there ever any fallout for all the Hobs turning? I assume there were other Hobs on GK's side when Vanna/Charlie turned them all. A bunch of Hobs in Gobwin Knob city suddenly turning should have been a problem, shouldn't it?

    Unrelated note. Easy living has given Vinny a bit of a tum.


    There was no after math that we saw but we can infer it.

    ftl wrote:
    Thecommander236 wrote:
    Love? Pots and kettles, Caesar?


    Yeah, it definitely sounded to me like if Parson weren't an enemy, Caesar would have ended that sentence with "Trust me, I know" or "Learn from my mistakes" or something like that.


    If I was Parson, I would have asked him if he was speaking from experience.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:22 am 
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    Thecommander236 wrote:
    If I was Parson, I would have asked him if he was speaking from experience.

    I think Parson might already know he is. He did refer to Caesar as "Tobacula and his bride."

    http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+3/159

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:24 am 
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    Perhaps Parson is growing in love with Maggie? He need not be in denial. He wasn't in love before, but he may be starting to now. Every passing moment brings new loss, new life, new love. What was not there before may spark into a tiny flame that, unbeknownst to us, may grow into a hidden raging inferno. I for one support this little bulb of fire, if not for the probability that it eventually be snuffed tragically, like so many loves in Erfworld have been.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:26 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    I'm from the USA. Doesn't mean I'd become determined to tear his side to the ground.

    As for canopy beds, it varies. And that would be pretty useless mosquito netting anyway, because it's open on top.


    You're not Parson. You haven't been tortured and watched your colleague and friend be tortured next to you.

    Like I said, Parson won't forgive easily. Nowhere near as easily as a born Erfworlder. He has grown up in a milieu where torture isn't normal.

    You're correct about the lack of a ceiling, though. Canopy bed, not mosquito netting.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:34 am 
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    So, were there any half truths in this one?

    They claimed that TV was bankrolling Jil -- true.
    They claimed that Charles was protecting Jil -- true
    They claimed that TV and Charles are working together to support Jil -- true
    They claimed that everyone is at war with Charles -- Jedi True

    Now, claiming that Charles can conquer the world in a single turn? ... Well, lets see. 600 archons, 200 portals, 3 archons per portal in the capitals of everyone at once. Veiled, sneak attack, a good chance of killing a lot of rulers. No side with an heir will go down, and some sides won't have the ruler by the portal. Still ... it's a good opening move.

    And, if you take out a ruler, it's your turn, you have move, you go back to the MK and move to support another portal assault.

    But, that's with 600 archons. Most of those are out on contract. Why, Charles would have to time his contracts so that everything comes to an end more or less at the same time. Or, have some clause in these contracts that would permit the archons to be recalled for a penalty -- we know he's willing to pay penalties if he can wipe the side and get their treasury.

    Now, if he were to spend a year prepping, at one archon per turn, he'd get more, and maybe a year of prep would be enough to time the ending of all his contracts.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:37 am 
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    Leuku wrote:
    Perhaps Parson is growing in love with Maggie? He need not be in denial. He wasn't in love before, but he may be starting to now. Every passing moment brings new loss, new life, new love. What was not there before may spark into a tiny flame that, unbeknownst to us, may grow into a hidden raging inferno. I for one support this little bulb of fire, if not for the probability that it eventually be snuffed tragically, like so many loves in Erfworld have been.

    I think he's just doesn't recognize what his feelings are, because he's never had a serious relationship, and she doesn't look like someone he'd normally be attracted to.

    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    You're not Parson. You haven't been tortured and watched your colleague and friend be tortured next to you.

    Like I said, Parson won't forgive easily. Nowhere near as easily as a born Erfworlder. He has grown up in a milieu where torture isn't normal.

    I guess we'll have to see. Maybe he will hate Caesar. But that doesn't mean they won't work well together. I anticipate things will end with grudging respect, not murder plots. Caesar seeing reason and being willing to work with GK would go a long way.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:38 am 
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    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Polvane the eraser wrote:
    I don't believe there will be male bonding. I don't believe Parson will forgive Caesar for torturing him and Jack anytime soon.

    I believe that is the first bed we've seen with mosquito netting.

    Parson's a big boy. I think he'd be able to be professional about it. They won't immediately jump to bro hugs, but I think they see eye to eye on a lot.

    And I guess you've never heard of a canopy bed.


    Parson is from the USA. He doesn't have Erfworlder sensibilities. An American is less likely to let bygones be bygones with his torturer.


    Mosquito netting in Erfworld, I mean. And aren't canopy bed canopies supposed to be opaque, not translucent?

    That's why I thought mosquito netting.



    Wait, before I assume you are something you are not, are you saying that...

    A) People from StupidWorld, which in this case is the US, are more likely to hold a grudge for torture?
    or
    B) Americans in specific hold grudges more than other people in StupidWorld?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:39 am 
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    The genius of the Parson/Jack partnership comes through again. "It's worth a wager" indeed. Caesar is outmatched. They are telling the truth because it's the best shot they've got at the moment but if a lie was better they'd use that and it'd work too. They've got more information, they've got a communication channel he doesn't even know about, they're smarter, they have their emotions under more control than he does... the list goes on. Parson is one thing. Parson could fail to do well under these conditions under extended isolation and without someone to communicate with. This is the flipside to his prodigious skill at getting other people to perform well for him, for his excellent signs, as Janis saw them. But with Jack? With a masterclass, brilliant fool? Jack is the smartest Erfworlder that Parson has ever met. Against this team, Caesar is a joke.

    On another note: sometimes I see people on this forum complain about pages that didn't move the story forward, that add nothing. They complain about perspective shifts, about changes in focus, about how there are too many story lines. They are missing the point. Isn't it incredible when the disparate things we know about this world and its units come together in an unexpected and important way? Do this update and the previous one give us the payoff from many pages that "didn't move the plot forward"? This comic, and honestly with text updates it's not really fair to call it that, lets say this work of fiction, moves like life. It is not made up solely of the most important and dramatic moments. It has points where you are getting background info, it has many threads, it teaches you many things, sometimes they things it teaches you seem pointless only to matter later on. How long have we known Bunny? How long have we known she was damaged? How long ago was it that Parson and Jack forged the relationship that has empowered them to sow dissent on a fundamental strategic basis within a side that has them hostage? It all comes together. It all means something.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:42 am 
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    DunkelMentat wrote:
    The genius of the Parson/Jack partnership comes through again. "It's worth a wager" indeed. Caesar is outmatched. They are telling the truth because it's the best shot they've got at the moment but if a lie was better they'd use that and it'd work too. They've got more information, they've got a communication channel he doesn't even know about, they're smarter, they have their emotions under more control than he does... the list goes on. Parson is one thing. Parson could fail to do well under these conditions under extended isolation and without someone to communicate with. This is the flipside to his prodigious skill at getting other people to perform well for him, for his excellent signs, as Janis saw them. But with Jack? With a masterclass, brilliant fool? Jack is the smartest Erfworlder that Parson has ever met. Against this team, Caesar is a joke.

    On another note: sometimes I see people on this forum complain about pages that didn't move the story forward, that add nothing. They complain about perspective shifts, about changes in focus, about how there are too many story lines. They are missing the point. Isn't it incredible when the disparate things we know about this world and its units come together in an unexpected and important way? Do this update and the previous one give us the payoff from many pages that "didn't move the clock forward"? This comic, and honestly with text updates it's not really fair to call it that, lets say this work of fiction, moves like life. It has points where you are getting background info, it has many threads, it teaches you many things, sometimes they things it teaches you seem pointless only to matter later on. How long have we known Bunny? How long have we known she was damaged? How long ago was it that Parson and Jack forged the relationship that has empowered them to sow dissent on a fundamental strategic basis within a side that has them hostage? It all comes together. It all means something.

    I really enjoy Parson and Jack doing good cop/bad cop. And they're doing it from a position of perceived weakness!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:52 am 
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    Keybounce wrote:
    So, were there any half truths in this one?

    They claimed that TV was bankrolling Jil -- true.
    They claimed that Charles was protecting Jil -- true
    They claimed that TV and Charles are working together to support Jil -- true
    They claimed that everyone is at war with Charles -- Jedi True

    Now, claiming that Charles can conquer the world in a single turn? ... Well, lets see. 600 archons, 200 portals, 3 archons per portal in the capitals of everyone at once. Veiled, sneak attack, a good chance of killing a lot of rulers. No side with an heir will go down, and some sides won't have the ruler by the portal. Still ... it's a good opening move.

    And, if you take out a ruler, it's your turn, you have move, you go back to the MK and move to support another portal assault.

    But, that's with 600 archons. Most of those are out on contract. Why, Charles would have to time his contracts so that everything comes to an end more or less at the same time. Or, have some clause in these contracts that would permit the archons to be recalled for a penalty -- we know he's willing to pay penalties if he can wipe the side and get their treasury.

    Now, if he were to spend a year prepping, at one archon per turn, he'd get more, and maybe a year of prep would be enough to time the ending of all his contracts.

    Well...he DID say maybe...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:01 am 
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    So do Don and Caesar meet up to discuss strategy now? Do Benjamin and Caesar? We've heard from Caesar that he isn't super fond of Vinny's attack plan to wipe out Faq, so do they do anything to Faq or just pretend to be ignorant like Don has been doing to Vanna? There are a lot of directions this could go, and that's with the tiny chance that nothing else happens. This is Erf, after all. Everything gets complicated really fast.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 3 - Page 166
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:04 am 
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    Belrodes wrote:
    So do Don and Caesar meet up to discuss strategy now? Do Benjamin and Caesar? We've heard from Caesar that he isn't super fond of Vinny's attack plan to wipe out Faq, so do they do anything to Faq or just pretend to be ignorant like Don has been doing to Vanna? There are a lot of directions this could go, and that's with the tiny chance that nothing else happens. This is Erf, after all. Everything gets complicated really fast.

    Gee, if only Caesar had access to the best tactician on Erf...

    Oh well, too bad.

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