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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:17 am 
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BillMcD wrote:
Gez wrote:
Infidel wrote:
Because omniscient narrators don't give opinions

They don't? Seems I have just found the new frontier of literature that will allow me to write a groundbreaking novel that'll be required reading in colleges the world over.

Anyway, it seems there's a confusion between omniscient narrator and heterodiegetic narrator. A narrator may very well be opinionated, misleading, non-omniscient, and still not a character in the story.



Right about then, the Duke boys was in for a heap o' trouble!


See, thank you for proving my point! An opinionated narrator is a CHARACTER in itself. Maybe not in the story, but the narrator is developed into a person. You don't go suddenly from an impartial narrator, book 1, to an opinionated narrator, and have it be the same Character narrating. The narrator for Book 2 is different than book 1.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:23 am 
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    Porthos wrote:
    This is from a bit further back, but what the hey. :)

    Infidel wrote:
    Because omniscient narrators don't give opinions


    The heck they can't.

    Sure, 95% of the time they don't. Maybe even 99.9% of the time. But other times they do (usually in works that are heavy in subversions - or in works where the narrator/narration becomes a character in and of itself [omniscience notwithstanding]). The narrator in Rocky and Bullwinkle was clearly omniscient and he gave opinions all the time. So to do other works. A glance at the Narrator page over at TV Tropes will show a few omniscient narrators that give opinions on what they are describing.

    And, of course, Wikipedia has something to say about this:

    Third-person Narrative (Third person Omniscient)
    Quote:
    In some unusual cases, the reliability and impartiality of the narrator may in fact be as suspect as in the third person limited.


    Now I can't say for sure if this is the Narrator being a Deadpan Snarker, or if it's just Parson thinking about his day. It's probably the later. But let's not say that Omniscient Narrators have never had opinions before. Coz it just ain't true. ;)


    Yes, but if they start volunteering opinions, and acting different than before, then it's a new narrator, even if the narrator remains a disembodied voice throughout the entire series.

    I can quote wikitoo
    Quote:
    Character voice

    One of the most common narrative voices, used especially with first- and third-person viewpoints is the character voice in which an actual conscious "person" (in most cases, a living human being) is presented as the narrator. In this situation, the narrator is no longer an unspecified entity, but rather, a more relatable, realistic human character who may or may not be involved in the actions of his or her story and who may or may not take a biased approach in the storytelling.

    _________________
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    Last edited by Infidel on Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:30 am 
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    BoopingCynic wrote:
    Tyris wrote:
    Logged on just to say...
    Owiental Dwagons are the cutest things EVAR.
    Love the new artist.

    I strongly agree :D.

    Thirded.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:23 pm 
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    Infidel wrote:
    Porthos wrote:
    This is from a bit further back, but what the hey. :)

    Infidel wrote:
    Because omniscient narrators don't give opinions


    The heck they can't.

    Sure, 95% of the time they don't. Maybe even 99.9% of the time. But other times they do (usually in works that are heavy in subversions - or in works where the narrator/narration becomes a character in and of itself [omniscience notwithstanding]). The narrator in Rocky and Bullwinkle was clearly omniscient and he gave opinions all the time. So to do other works. A glance at the Narrator page over at TV Tropes will show a few omniscient narrators that give opinions on what they are describing.

    And, of course, Wikipedia has something to say about this:

    Third-person Narrative (Third person Omniscient)
    Quote:
    In some unusual cases, the reliability and impartiality of the narrator may in fact be as suspect as in the third person limited.


    Now I can't say for sure if this is the Narrator being a Deadpan Snarker, or if it's just Parson thinking about his day. It's probably the later. But let's not say that Omniscient Narrators have never had opinions before. Coz it just ain't true. ;)


    Yes, but if they start volunteering opinions, and acting different than before, then it's a new narrator, even if the narrator remains a disembodied voice throughout the entire series.

    I can quote wikitoo
    Quote:
    Character voice

    One of the most common narrative voices, used especially with first- and third-person viewpoints is the character voice in which an actual conscious "person" (in most cases, a living human being) is presented as the narrator. In this situation, the narrator is no longer an unspecified entity, but rather, a more relatable, realistic human character who may or may not be involved in the actions of his or her story and who may or may not take a biased approach in the storytelling.


    If they do give opinions they generally give either contrary or obvious opinions based on what they know to give you a better look into the story :geek:.

    _________________
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    His fall was not a small one\
    We did but build his pedestal\
    A narrow and a tall one.
    ~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:35 pm 
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    Nice to see everything come together excellently for Book 2.

    Art's still top notch, I had expected the style to at least subtly change but it's stayed true to its roots, and things look sharper than ever. If I'd not known there was a new artist I'd probably not have caught on. Well done, can't wait to see how things progress. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:36 pm 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
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    Infidel wrote:
    Spoiler: show
    my favorite character, Rincewind, is apparently dead.


    Spoiler: show
    Nope, not dead, Terry Pratchett has just moved on to less hapless protagonists. We do get a brief view of Rincewind at Unseen University in Unseen Academicals, where he is on staff as 'Professor of Cruel and Unusual Geography'.


    Can't argue with that :-)

    Happiness,
    Roszlishan


    Last edited by Roszlishan on Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:50 pm 
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    He was the chair of cruel and unusal geography in The Last Hero as well...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:10 pm 
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    Hey Rob, the page is a bit small here, and a little hard to read.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:16 pm 
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    Zeku wrote:
    What is that pose that Maggie is doing, from? I know I've seen it before, either in art, or a poster or something. It's a really old pose.


    It's similar to Carl Sagan's thinkamancy pose in the Magic Kingdom: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F140.jpg

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:27 pm 
    Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    so nice to have pictures again, yay!

    Welcome and Good job Xin Ye

    farewell rob

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:07 pm 
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    it's Jamie who left, Rob is still the writer...


    Last edited by fjolnir on Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:08 pm 
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    I wonder if Jack not being at the meeting at GK has any imoportance. Might there be a little surprise (like 40 dwagons) somewhere? :twisted:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:03 pm 
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    Tiger wrote:
    Hey Rob, the page is a bit small here, and a little hard to read.


    aha, so the font really did get smaller, i wasnt just hallucinating. its still readable, and it will save a lot of trouble when printing gets around (since all of book 1 is being relettered).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:20 pm 
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    This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a member of Team Erfworld IRC Quote of the Moment This user got funny with a rodent This user has been published! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Tiger wrote:
    Hey Rob, the page is a bit small here, and a little hard to read.


    If you click the image in that page, you see a bigger version.

    The way the site is now is not how it will be permanently, including the archives. Harknell and I are going to work on a better temporary design pursuant to a broader redesign, with Xin's art (and picture) better featured. Keep bearing with us. We did not wait til everything was perfect before launching.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:32 pm 
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    I'm digging the smaller type font.

    It was my chief complaint for Book 1, that, at times the amount of excellent writing needed too large of a word bubble or box, covering up the excellent art.

    It was an acceptable frustration, but one nonetheless.

    Fortunately I can't think of a time when an onomatopoeia was obscured, and that's for the best. Most if not all of the on-panel sounds are a joke or reference in their own right, it's one of my favorite layers to this rich and multi-layered project.

    Someone ought to pull together a list of them all and what they reference; they're really great.
    *blink* *blink* *wink* on page 29 cracks me up every time.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:00 pm 
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    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Guurzak wrote:
    Zeku wrote:
    What is that pose that Maggie is doing, from? I know I've seen it before, either in art, or a poster or something. It's a really old pose.


    It's similar to Carl Sagan's thinkamancy pose in the Magic Kingdom: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F140.jpg

    I do believe it is the famous Charles Xavier telepathic pose... ;)

    Regards,

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    If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:27 pm 
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    i just want to say;

    good job :) i like xin'S art^^ :ugeek:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:01 pm 
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    The main thing I want to know is are the Owiental Dwagons a type of Dwagon (maybe they spit out chinese lucky clouds :P), and do they exist. If so then why doesn't Stanley get any of them :?: :evil:. And if not are there no normal dragons that look like that :cry:.

    _________________
    Here lies a toppled God\
    His fall was not a small one\
    We did but build his pedestal\
    A narrow and a tall one.
    ~ Tlielaxu Epigram ~

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:44 pm 
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    Those type of dragons are probably located in a different part of Erfworld.

    Will we ever see some in non-statue form? Who knows, it depends on how the coming conflict goes, and if it expands or not. (If wanda's AoD trounces RCCII, she'll no doubt continue on as far as she can go. Seeing as other sides of the world are oblivious to the conflict here, there's a good chance she'll be able to hit hard and fast enough to keep momentum)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 1
     Post Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:52 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Nice opener for book two. Now that we have a story with some momentum due to the summer updates we can hope right into the action.

    A few thoughts:

    1) Kudos for all the little pop-culture references. I didn't see it mentioned yet, but is that a tetris piece Tool is standing on in the second panel?

    2) As far as oriental dwagons go, it may be an issue of geography. Jillian references the different architecture far to the south. I wouldn't be surprised if different areas had different flavors of units and structures. Perhaps factions for to the east (assuming there is an absolute direction in Erf World) can only pop oriental dwagons and not western dwagons. (Edit: Annnnnnnnnd I've been ninjaed)

    3) How vulnerable is GK to having communications cut off? It seems that right now Maggie is the most important -mancer on the GK side (excluding Wanda). If she were neutralized and Jillian cuts the dwagon express, GK's forces would be split and out of touch. I'll be interested to learn just what the situation ont he ground is and if Jillian has popped up again.

    Looking forward to the next installment.

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