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 Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Dwagon_Cwoaker wrote:
If there's opposition, its going to be along the lines of Ansom's Gambit turning into a disaster for Gobwin Knob. I know I said back on the first page that it was a great freaking idea, but if you're really going to sit down and consider it, there's a lot that could go wrong. A quick strike to break the dwagon chain, to hamstring the redistribution of casters and warlords that's giving Gobwin Knob a huge advantage, coupled with a sufficiently powerful force coming behind the Decrypted army as soon as it enters Jetstone territory to effectively isolate it, and all the sudden you have a situation where Stanley needs to call upon Parson once again to take over and save Wanda and Ansom from harm. Parson comes to the rescue, saves the day, but possibly at the cost of the Decrypted army that's been building for the past 30 or so turns and maybe a few good character deaths (Ansom dieing... again? Maybe Wanda, for the added 'omg' factor. Maybe kill a few on the RCC2 side, like Vinnie and one of Ansom's brothers.)


The problem is...Parson's going to have a heck of a hard time coming to the rescue. He can't ride dragons, and the army is currently more then two hundred hexes from Gobwin Knob.

We don't know what his move score would be if he was promoted from garrison unit, but I doubt it's that much. It'd take him forever to get to the army; too long, probably.

Parson can give advice and stuff, but he can't literally come charging to the rescue.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:18 pm 
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    for all we know, Parson's inability to ride a dwagon may have come from him being a garrison unit. perhaps once he's upgraded, the rules of erfworld will make him magically light enough to ride a dwagon?

    Also, him coming to the rescue could be as simple as commanding the battle from home, like he did during all of book one. Wouldn't be as interesting, though, as riding to battle on a flight of dwagons and archons, possibly using a guerilla insurgency in Jetstone's territory to draw attention from Wanda and Ansom long enough for them to escape.

    This is after he climbs the tower a couple hundred more times to lose some weight, of course :lol:

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:26 pm 
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    Dwagon_Cwoaker wrote:
    for all we know, Parson's inability to ride a dwagon may have come from him being a garrison unit. perhaps once he's upgraded, the rules of erfworld will make him magically light enough to ride a dwagon?


    I...doubt it. If he's a garrison unit, then he can't leave the hex, but he should still be able to ride the dragon around the hex, right?


    Quote:
    Also, him coming to the rescue could be as simple as commanding the battle from home, like he did during all of book one. Wouldn't be as interesting, though, as riding to battle on a flight of dwagons and archons, possibly using a guerilla insurgency in Jetstone's territory to draw attention from Wanda and Ansom long enough for them to escape.


    Yeah, could be. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Stanly end up riding a flight of dragons "to the rescue" here, largely because he can ride dragons and Parson can't.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:31 pm 
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    The problem with Ansom's strategy is that the coalition might get access to Parson's calculations (Charlie via Jillian). So they'll know exactly how big an army they'll need to crush Ansom's force attacking Spacerock. Parson may be able to persuade Wanda but not Ansom (trying to show he's better than Parson) and Stanley (still insecure about Wanda's pliers).

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:02 pm 
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    teratorn wrote:
    Why is everyone assuming that Ossomer is the heir? He's the Chief warlord, but he's also the younger brother. Did we have an indication that Ansom was heir to the throne? It's possible that Tramennis has been the heir to the throne, and not the other two guys.


    i can't find anything saying Ansom was the heir, but i could have sworn thats what it said somewhere. also, it never says either of two new brothers are next in line for the throne, nor do we no they are the only other siblings. so, there may be alot of other royal warlords to give ansom trouble in his homecoming

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:07 pm 
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    yay wrote:
    but anyways, someone brought up the point of how many blows to the invisible loyalty stat does it take to make someone turn. apparently alot, since parson and the casters are still loyal after being yelled at and abandoned by stanley. so Ansom having to run back and forth between the frontlines and capitol can't have that much of an impact. otoh, he hates stanley. he may try to cover it, supress it, ignore it, whatever, but he is not a big fan of the tool


    Perhaps its just like real people, some will stay loyal (for whatever reason) no matter what happens or how badly they are treated while others, through ambition or low patience, loyalty will erode faster.

    Quote:
    also, if he was considered "one of the finest stategic minds", and he is on the side with the warlord who outmatched him, plus two arkentools, how is there going to be opposition? Charlie and the other arkentool join RCC? Two jetstone princes are better than one? Parson goes into a comma and wakes up in another alternate reality? Jillian discovers and reconstructs Voltron, Defender of the Erfiverse? (not complaining, just getting pumped up for next book)


    Well, "one of the finest strategic minds" of the old attitudes of warfare anyway. Parson was a innovator in a desperate situation who was able to turn things on their heads. If GK many enemies start imitating Parson and trying innovative things (such as Tramennis with his relay) when they find the old tactics just aren't working as well... well, they'd probably still be up against it (since Parson is still in his element), but it would be harder going for GK at least.

    shadowdemon_lord wrote:
    With Unaroyals capital about to be taken I'm curious to see what happens when you decrypt casters. A side as powerful as Unaroyal has got to have casters, and I'm sure they're going to throw everything they have into the defense of their capital, which probably means their casters are going to go down with the ship. So then I'm curious, do decrypted casters retain spell casting?


    I guess it depends on how much they want a "noble" last stand. They must know they can't save the capital.

    Ossomer saw two options for Unaroyal which was call for Jetstone's aid or cede the capital and send what it could save to the rest of the coalition. Surely casters would be something you'd want to salvage from an unwinnable situation. Especially if the RCII has an inkling of what decryption is.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:50 pm 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    shneekeythelost wrote:
    Actually, neither of these are correct. Remember, Jillian was officially declared the Royal Heir. That means that if your hypothesis is correct, FAQ would not have fallen, and she would not have become a Barbarian, because they still had an heir.

    If Jetstone falls, Ossomer and Tramennis become Barbarians, until they can retake something to rule.


    It depends, if only the capital falls, then the Heir should still be able to retain control of the other cities.

    However, it is possible that the rule is that a side must control a capital city. Jetstone might be considered to have fallen once the capital falls, even if there are other cities.

    FAQ still had a couple of cities left when FAQ fell, didn't it?

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:06 am 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
    yay wrote:
    also, if he was considered "one of the finest stategic minds", and he is on the side with the warlord who outmatched him, plus two arkentools, how is there going to be opposition? Charlie and the other arkentool join RCC? Two jetstone princes are better than one? Parson goes into a comma and wakes up in another alternate reality? Jillian discovers and reconstructs Voltron, Defender of the Erfiverse? (not complaining, just getting pumped up for next book)


    Well, "one of the finest strategic minds" of the old attitudes of warfare anyway. Parson was a innovator in a desperate situation who was able to turn things on their heads. If GK many enemies start imitating Parson and trying innovative things (such as Tramennis with his relay) when they find the old tactics just aren't working as well... well, they'd probably still be up against it (since Parson is still in his element), but it would be harder going for GK at least.


    ansom has more experince than any other warlord (except vinny and jillian, who both missed out on alot while fighting stanley) on how parson is changeing the game, plus he is one of the best "old school" stategist around. i don't think any serious threat will arise from an enemies stategic planning. what i was half-joking about is that it's going to be something unforseeable to shake up GK's advantage, like the fourth arkentool or another non-erfworlder.
    (random side note brought on by sleep deprivation: everyone acts like erf and earth are the only realities, but odds are there are more than two planes of existence to draw characters out of. it's all quantam, to quote Sir Terry Pratchett)

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:20 am 
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    Prediction!

    The attack on Unaroyal suceeds, with some loss to GK and total loss to Uniroyal. Wanda whips out the Arkenpliers to start decrypting, and discovers that they have a ceiling on how much they can decrypt. Not out of charges, just only able to have X amount of decrypted in the field at any one time.

    Storywise, this would be a useful foil to 'unlimited decryption.

    I like it better unlimited, personally.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:21 am 
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    Yosarian wrote:
    The problem is...Parson's going to have a heck of a hard time coming to the rescue. He can't ride dragons, and the army is currently more then two hundred hexes from Gobwin Knob.


    Maybe if he got some of the twolls to fabricate him a chariot and had several dwagons carry it? That would be bad ass. Better than the stinky old blanket/net Charlie was going to use.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:59 am 
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    I've been thinking.

    What if Wanda took over Unaroyal's capitol and decrypted them with Uniroyal livery? Say, if Scarlet was still alive was ordered a change of clothes from the Magic Kingdom for her famous red-and-yellow armor, than Wanda should easily decrypt the entire side to original colors. So this all revolves around if Erfworlders can tell friendlies/what side someone is just by looking at them. If not, then the whole side of Uniroyal could be moles for Gobwin Knob. We already know Bunny and Uniroyal's thinkamancer are close, there was to be at least some spying potential there before word gets out. Of course we don't know how side recognition works, if at all.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:57 am 
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    yay wrote:
    i can't find anything saying Ansom was the heir, but i could have sworn thats what it said somewhere. also, it never says either of two new brothers are next in line for the throne, nor do we no they are the only other siblings. so, there may be alot of other royal warlords to give ansom trouble in his homecoming


    Yeah, it said it here (panel 3), "Chief Warlord and heir to the throne of Jetstone".

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:52 am 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    One slight problem is that killing a Ruler freezes all units in the side. There would be no way for Wanda to decrypt Stanley, as killing him would freeze him.

    They would freeze until the city they were in came under attack. Maybe a contract with Charlie would help there.


    According to http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F098b.jpg

    If an Overlord/King is croaked and has no heir then all units in the field disband and cities freeze. Not sure if that is literal in that they freeze in place or means that all production stops, they cannot attack can only defend, etc.

    I am assuming that when Ansom was croaked, the king had to choose Ossomer Chief as Warlord but I believe that Trammenis would then be next in line for the throne since he is the elder (assuming there are no other royal brothers/sisters).

    If a ruler is croaked and all cities are captured then yeah, the heir and all units in the field become Barbarians.

    Maybe we will get more insight into these processes as Unaroyal falls and the Battle for Jetstone unfolds; barring any reconjuration of course :)

    Note: From what I can tell this Jillian became a Barbarian only a little time before the first RCC. it seems that the Fall of Faq and Stanley's rise to power and Stanley's quest for the Arkentools weren't that far apart...

    From the clues that are revealed to us from Jillian's, Wanda's, and Sizemore's expositions it is very likely that Wanda was behind Stanley being named heir and the Gobwin revolt. (which has already been speculated in the forums, natch) Now that Wanda is attuned and has had her prediction come true, what is her goal now? Was there more to the prediction? Time will tell... Perhaps that will be part of the inevitable prequel story that will extend the life of this online comic a good few years :)

    I speculate that FAQ's predictamancer is hiding in the Magic Kingdom and Wanda is still consulting her/him now and again. Now that FAQ has been reformed will the predictamancer return? Is Wanda just an unwitting part of an elaborate plot by FAQ to break Erfworld's cycle of war? (we must pop a croakamancer who will betray us but Faq will rise again stronger than ever and change the world .. blah blah blah).

    Random croakamancer related thought of the day: "god, I miss Pushing Daisies :( "

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:51 am 
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    Decryption is equally good offensively and defensively.

    Actually its better on the defense.
    The bodies disappear on the opponents next turn.
    So if multiple forces attack Wanda who is on the defensive the fight is over on thier turns.
    She can then Decrypt them on her turn.

    How ever if Wanda is attacking they will have another turn before hers and the bodies will disappear unless she completely wipes out thier side in a single attack. This is because Wanda will not be able to decrypt on the turn she attacks.

    The reason her army is growing is due to the fact that her opponents lose in a single turn.
    Once she attacks something that can withstand a single attack from her army she won't be able to decrypt the enemy loses.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:52 am 
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    joosy wrote:
    Yosarian wrote:
    The problem is...Parson's going to have a heck of a hard time coming to the rescue. He can't ride dragons, and the army is currently more then two hundred hexes from Gobwin Knob.


    Maybe if he got some of the twolls to fabricate him a chariot and had several dwagons carry it? That would be bad ass. Better than the stinky old blanket/net Charlie was going to use.


    Heh. Could be.

    I just expect that, after Parson's inability to ride dragons was gone into in such great detail, that it's likely it'll become important to the plot later.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:57 am 
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    Charlie is Faq's old predictamancer? Would explain why he's jonesing so badly for Parson's bracer...

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:58 am 
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    joosy wrote:
    According to http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F098b.jpg

    If an Overlord/King is croaked and has no heir then all units in the field disband and cities freeze. Not sure if that is literal in that they freeze in place or means that all production stops, they cannot attack can only defend, etc.


    Well, I guess it could mean that the move for all units in the city is set to zero, and casters are unable to cast.

    In any case, it is unclear what would happen if Stanley is decrypted, it is certainly not clear if he would maintain Ruler status.

    Quote:
    If a ruler is croaked and all cities are captured then yeah, the heir and all units in the field become Barbarians.


    Well, I think it is only field units in the same hex as an Heir that gets that benefit. All others are instantly killed.

    Decorus wrote:
    Decryption is equally good offensively and defensively.

    Actually its better on the defense.
    The bodies disappear on the opponents next turn.
    So if multiple forces attack Wanda who is on the defensive the fight is over on thier turns.
    She can then Decrypt them on her turn.

    How ever if Wanda is attacking they will have another turn before hers and the bodies will disappear unless she completely wipes out thier side in a single attack. This is because Wanda will not be able to decrypt on the turn she attacks.


    Right, GK has to "hold the field" in order for decryption to work. She either needs to kill all units when attacking, or prevent all of her units being destroyed when attacking.

    Quote:
    Once she attacks something that can withstand a single attack from her army she won't be able to decrypt the enemy loses.


    However, when attacking, she gets to decide who to attack. When defending, the enemy will likely decide to attack as a massive force (especially, when the nature of the pliers is discovered.)

    When attacking, she can hit weak cities and stacks and then when she has a massive force, can attacking the well defended cities.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:03 am 
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    joosy wrote:
    Maybe if he got some of the twolls to fabricate him a chariot and had several dwagons carry it? That would be bad ass. Better than the stinky old blanket/net Charlie was going to use.


    In practice, it is unclear if a flying chariot would actually work.

    Code:
    Dwagon <-> Dwagon <-> Chariot


    would probably become

    Code:
    Dwagon -\
              Dwagon
                  ^
                  |
                  C
                  h
                  a
                  r
                  i
                  o
                  t




    unless the dwagons moved very fast.

    The other option would be that the connections to the dwagons were rigid.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:23 am 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    joosy wrote:
    Maybe if he got some of the twolls to fabricate him a chariot and had several dwagons carry it? That would be bad ass. Better than the stinky old blanket/net Charlie was going to use.


    In practice, it is unclear if a flying chariot would actually work.
    ---code---
    unless the dwagons moved very fast.

    The other option would be that the connections to the dwagons were rigid.


    What about

    dwagon---chariot---dwagon

    ?

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Updates - 042
     Post Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:34 am 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    In practice, it is unclear if a flying chariot would actually work.


    Whatever. I saw Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. They had a flying carriage. Since Harry Potter is real then it has to work in a real place like Erfworld as well. ;)

    (i.e.: it will work if the storyteller wants it to. If it defies some physics or something then they'll just 'hang a lantern' on it and explain it away with magic.)

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