Forum    Members    Search    FAQ

Board index » Your Things » Your Games




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 158 posts ] 
 
Author Message
 Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:55 pm 
Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
Offline
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:25 am
Posts: 698
Deo wrote:
LTDave wrote:
How about limiting Fodder to A and B units?



The thing is that is what worries me. Going back to what GWvsJohn was similarly talking about a few pages ago. You could design a massive glass cannon at the higher point values and rest assured that that unit could not be touched till the fodder was dead.

For example I quickly put together a G that is 10/76/3/6. If there is no way at all to attack it till all fodder (or if its lucky) in the stack is dead, then I would just make a bunch of high HP and Defense fodder and stick 14 in a stack with two of them. Not counting the fodder units, that is 152 attacks from units that can not be killed till the rest of the stack is dead. I even stuck siege on it for good measure so now the two of them would destroy the defense structure they attack in two phases.


Well, as I understand it, your stack's damage drops as they take hits. The fodder units might die first, but if your stack loses 50% of its total hits, then it loses 50% of its total attack as well, no matter who dies first. Fodder would be good for preserving your high-value units from becoming casualties, but I don't think it'd actually be the meatshield you're expecting here.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:10 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:17 pm
    Posts: 748
    Keeping the Combat reduction in mind, GJC's right, Deo. There's something to be said for using a screening stack for a high combat tank, but fodder itself will just make it less likely the tank will be a casualty.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:39 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
    Posts: 572
    But you can create an army with a small number of effectively invulnerable glass cannons and multiple highs defense/hits D/E specials that are cheap and easy to replace.

    I think hits should be divided evenly among units in a stack, then pooled for units of the same type and whole models removed if possible.

    Edit: Actually, Leadership should play a role here. We know Warlords can direct combat. If your stack has a Warlord you should get to choose where the hits go.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:43 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
    Posts: 572
    GWvsJohn wrote:
    But you can create an army with a small number of effectively invulnerable glass cannons and multiple highs defense/hits D/E specials that are cheap and easy to replace.

    I think hits should be divided evenly among units in a stack, then pooled for units of the same type and whole models removed if possible.

    Edit: Actually, Leadership should play a role here. We know Warlords can direct combat. If your stack has a Warlord you should get to choose where the hits go.


    Double edit: I also think Warlords should take hits last.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:49 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:17 pm
    Posts: 748
    GWvsJohn wrote:
    But you can create an army with a small number of effectively invulnerable glass cannons and multiple highs defense/hits D/E specials that are cheap and easy to replace.

    I think hits should be divided evenly among units in a stack, then pooled for units of the same type and whole models removed if possible.

    Edit: Actually, Leadership should play a role here. We know Warlords can direct combat. If your stack has a Warlord you should get to choose where the hits go.

    Having a Warlord choose where the hits are taken makes battles take longer and depend more on player input.

    Maybe by default hits go first to the lowest defense units in a stack.
    Leadership means hits are divided evenly amongst the stack.
    Lucky makes you count as a higher defense unit (higher than all non-lucky, apply normally for other lucky units) when unled, and with leadership you don't take hits until everybody else is down.
    Fodder means you count as a lower defense unit (lower than all non-fodder, apply normally for other fodder units) when unled, and with leadership you take all hits until you're down.

    Thoughts?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:56 pm 
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:25 am
    Posts: 698
    That might be too much complexity, since dave would have to keep track of unit hp in battles, and weight the unit's combat averages. If he okays it, though, I'd be cool with it.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:02 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:17 pm
    Posts: 748
    Not during battle, GJC. Just for determining casualties post-battle.

    Stack takes X hits during battle, post-battle hit assignment follows those four rules (1 or 2 if you don't have those specials)

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:11 pm 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:17 am
    Posts: 870
    I agree with the warlord should be the last unit in the stack to fall (unless specifically targeted somehow?), but I should point out that Dave did not in fact add Lucky to the ruleset, only Fodder. Therefore, any ruleset shouldn't include them (Unless Dave merely forgot to put them in the PDF, and is intending Lucky to still be a thing).

    Also, should there be a special that makes a unit start garrisoned? Or an option to make units popped automatically be garrisoned when you pop them?

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:18 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:17 pm
    Posts: 748
    You can pop units as garrison units, Seraph. Already did this with some of my MobBits.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:30 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:40 pm
    Posts: 333
    SeraphRedux wrote:
    but I should point out that Dave did not in fact add Lucky to the ruleset, only Fodder. Therefore, any ruleset shouldn't include them (Unless Dave merely forgot to put them in the PDF, and is intending Lucky to still be a thing).



    The last post on page four, the most recent post of specials from dave, listed lucky so I assume its in there.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:58 pm 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:17 am
    Posts: 870
    Deo wrote:
    SeraphRedux wrote:
    but I should point out that Dave did not in fact add Lucky to the ruleset, only Fodder. Therefore, any ruleset shouldn't include them (Unless Dave merely forgot to put them in the PDF, and is intending Lucky to still be a thing).



    The last post on page four, the most recent post of specials from dave, listed lucky so I assume its in there.


    I was just going by the pdf which has one but not the other. That is something to note, though. I'm not sure when he last updated the pdf, so the post might be the better thing to go by.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:00 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:40 pm
    Posts: 333
    SeraphRedux wrote:
    Deo wrote:
    SeraphRedux wrote:
    but I should point out that Dave did not in fact add Lucky to the ruleset, only Fodder. Therefore, any ruleset shouldn't include them (Unless Dave merely forgot to put them in the PDF, and is intending Lucky to still be a thing).



    The last post on page four, the most recent post of specials from dave, listed lucky so I assume its in there.


    I was just going by the pdf which has one but not the other. That is something to note, though. I'm not sure when he last updated the pdf, so the post might be the better thing to go by.



    Which PDF? The one on the first post does not work for me, and the one in the main Erflia thread appears to not have been updated yet.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:02 pm 
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:25 am
    Posts: 698
    viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6835&start=80#p112789

    He linked to this: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... NzQ5ZTU5Yg

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:15 pm 
    User avatar
    This user has been published!
    Offline
    Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:53 pm
    Posts: 3226
    I took out lucky, and I might take out fodder as well if folks think it is too much / exploitable.

    I'm starting to think "Skirmisher" is too powerful as well. I might remove that.

    Nothing is set in concrete just yet! For those folks who are on 3rd design of units, stop. Unless you really enjoy that sort of thing. There is no rush here. I will make a final set late on my Friday night, and start turn 14. As your turn comes up, you can solidify your unit design. Without giving too much away, I don't think turn 14 is going to be big on battles - mostly vainglorious posturing.

    _________________
    Erfworld Empires X Version 3

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:24 pm 
    This user is a Tool! Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:25 am
    Posts: 722
    Location: Bay Area, California
    Personally I love tinkering with the units and designs :).

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:30 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:40 pm
    Posts: 333
    LTDave wrote:
    I took out lucky, and I might take out fodder as well if folks think it is too much / exploitable.

    I'm starting to think "Skirmisher" is too powerful as well. I might remove that.

    Nothing is set in concrete just yet! For those folks who are on 3rd design of units, stop. Unless you really enjoy that sort of thing. There is no rush here. I will make a final set late on my Friday night, and start turn 14. As your turn comes up, you can solidify your unit design. Without giving too much away, I don't think turn 14 is going to be big on battles - mostly vainglorious posturing.


    Worst comes to worse you could adjust stuff on the fly if it feels like it is too powerful or difficult to counter.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:31 pm 
    User avatar
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:17 am
    Posts: 870
    Deo wrote:
    Which PDF? The one on the first post does not work for me, and the one in the main Erflia thread appears to not have been updated yet.


    Somewhere on page 5 (least my page 5). I remember talking about if he should link that in the first post of this thread, for this exact reason.

    LTDave wrote:
    I'm starting to think "Skirmisher" is too powerful as well. I might remove that.


    I'd recommend taking skirmisher out, and bring Earthshaker, Footbiter, and Battlecwap back up to (4) for +8 efficiency. I remember stating that they invalidated Packmind, and that they should be either +7 or Packmind should be (3), but you did both. Since you lowered Packmind to (3), you can put the Earthshaker, Footbiter, and Battlecwap back to +8 without invalidating it as long as Packmind is staying at (3).

    Those three specials are invalidated by Dance Fighting as they are currently, anyway, so it'd also fix that issue.


    LTDave wrote:
    Nothing is set in concrete just yet! For those folks who are on 3rd design of units, stop. Unless you really enjoy that sort of thing.


    Hit the nail on the head. But I fully understand things are in high octane flux, it's just a lot of fun theory cwafting.


    Also, yay for vainglorious posting. :D

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:33 pm 
    Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary
    Offline
    Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:25 am
    Posts: 698
    Quote:
    Also, yay for vainglorious posting. :D

    I believe he said "posturing", but posting is accurate as well.

    Agree with the skirmisher issue.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:37 pm 
    User avatar
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
    Offline
    Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:40 pm
    Posts: 333
    SeraphRedux wrote:
    Deo wrote:
    LTDave wrote:
    I'm starting to think "Skirmisher" is too powerful as well. I might remove that.


    I'd recommend taking skirmisher out, and bring Earthshaker, Footbiter, and Battlecwap back up to (4) for +8 efficiency. I remember stating that they invalidated Packmind, and that they should be either +7 or Packmind should be (3), but you did both. Since you lowered Packmind to (3), you can put the Earthshaker, Footbiter, and Battlecwap back to +8 without invalidating it as long as Packmind is staying at (3).


    I am actually ok with that as even though it is cheaper and could be slightly more effective, Packmind only gives you the equivalent +8 bonus if you stack with 16 units, which is normally handicapped by the effective end of bonuses you get with a 8 unit bonus. Packmind is actually ensuring that at 16 units it gets the same bonus per unit as the normal stack of 8 do.

    Stacks get a bonus up to +8
    Packmind stacks get a bonus to +16. But only if every unit is packmind and of the same type!!

    This means no mixed stacks for packmind units unless you dont want it to be an equal bonus to Earthshaker and the others.

    I think it makes sense for it to be 1 point cheaper and to have a +1 point advantage, as you lose the ability to have as effective mixed stacks and you need to actually have 16 units to achieve the +8.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
     Post Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:41 pm 
    Offline
    Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
    Posts: 572
    Letting Warlords direct hits makes things easier, not harder. Side with warlord just makes a priority list of targets and Dave allocates the hits that way. It's easier than trying to to find a fair way to randomize them.

  • Tip this post

    Make Anonymous
  • Top 
       
    Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     
    Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 158 posts ] 

    Board index » Your Things » Your Games


    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

     
     

     
    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot post attachments in this forum

    Search for:
    Jump to: