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 Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:16 pm 
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Arky wrote:
I see two possibilies:

1. Prince Creen goes ballistic when he discovers the ruse or discovers Dove and lashes out. He's a flying unit and seems to stay off the ground all the time, so this could well fulfil the prophecy.
I don't think Prince Creen all by himself is likely to count as a massive air attack.

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2. The Delkey units are probably not part of the contract, so Charlie's units shoot to kill those (including Creen). Either the Homekey units fail to retaliate (ensuring war between Homekey and Delkey, probably) or they DO retaliate and bankrupt the side and get everyone disbanded, just in time for Numloch to march in and take over.
Or they continue with the ruse while Charlie takes out some annoying witnesses. It would make sense after all for the archons to target archers, and the warlord leading them. And if the ruse goes off as planned otherwise, Delkey will think it was a real fight, and they can't get just too mad about their units dying in combat against an enemy.

Really depends on what kind of story Rob is going for. Since it is a reward for a kickstarter backer, there is a reasonable chance it'll have a happy ending like Lord Crush, though that's far from certain.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:24 pm 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Arky wrote:
    I see two possibilies:

    1. Prince Creen goes ballistic when he discovers the ruse or discovers Dove and lashes out. He's a flying unit and seems to stay off the ground all the time, so this could well fulfil the prophecy.
    I don't think Prince Creen all by himself is likely to count as a massive air attack.


    He is a pretty big windbag! But yeah, I agree.

    Quote:
    2. The Delkey units are probably not part of the contract, so Charlie's units shoot to kill those (including Creen). Either the Homekey units fail to retaliate (ensuring war between Homekey and Delkey, probably) or they DO retaliate and bankrupt the side and get everyone disbanded, just in time for Numloch to march in and take over.
    Or they continue with the ruse while Charlie takes out some annoying witnesses. It would make sense after all for the archons to target archers, and the warlord leading them. And if the ruse goes off as planned otherwise, Delkey will think it was a real fight, and they can't get just too mad about their units dying in combat against an enemy.

    Really depends on what kind of story Rob is going for. Since it is a reward for a kickstarter backer, there is a reasonable chance it'll have a happy ending like Lord Crush, though that's far from certain.[/quote]

    Didn't consider that. It has felt all along like a tragedy in the making, but I suppose it doesn't have to be. It's just... Charlie is involved! Carnymancy is involved! Charlie is involved with a contract with giant penalties which have been lampshaded and which was drawn up without taking into account the presence of Prince Creen and the Delkey units! Disunity amongst the Homekey leaders! It's... just really difficult to see this not going wrong. The stage has been filled with a such a minefield that everything going off without a hitch is almost unimaginable to me.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:18 pm 
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    Oh, I agree. There is a very high possibility of it ending poorly, and there are tons of ways it could happen. There are also a verity of ways that it could end well, without everything going according to plan. The trap scroll is almost certainly a Chekhov's gun, and will get used to some impressive effect in the course of the battle, but it is hard to say what.

    Really, about the only thing we know for certain about this story is that Dove survives, since we've seen her in the main comic... though maybe that isn't even certain, because this story could happen after she showed up in the comic, though that seems unlikely.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:50 pm 
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    Contract penalties? Hmm... presumably allied units are included. Furthermore if the contract is good the archons are NOT supposed to throw themselves in the way of arrow and try to live and stuffs. So unless Prince Creen is really awesome I don't think this will present too much of an issue.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:11 am 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Shai_hulud wrote:
    I wonder why it can't charge the tower.

    My guess would be that there is a limit to how much Dove can break the rules. Or perhaps in order to break the rule on placement, she also had to break the rule on charging the tower. Kind of a 1 for 1 trade on the benefits vs penalties.

    Like, back when Joe (Jo?) saved Sylvia, he broke the rule that said an incapacitated unit croaks, but he also seemingly broke the rule that units automatically heal to full at start of turn.

    Come to think of it, the reason might be that Dove didn't actually make the trap work. It isn't actually grabbing any lightning, and so it can't charge the tower. It would be a clever thing to claim that the spell she casts will prevent the trap from charging the tower, then just not cast a spell that'll do what Digdoug wants at all and he has no way to prove it works before it is too late.


    It's pretty much a given that the trap actually works. Digdoug was prevented by seemingly random circumstance from charging the tower, just like Sylvia was saved by a random stone deflecting an arrow. I'm going to assume for now that carnymancy is forcing circumstance to allign with the spells effects - and that carnymancy always comes with a tradeoff as a zero sum thing.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:41 am 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Arky wrote:
    I see two possibilies:

    1. Prince Creen goes ballistic when he discovers the ruse or discovers Dove and lashes out. He's a flying unit and seems to stay off the ground all the time, so this could well fulfil the prophecy.
    I don't think Prince Creen all by himself is likely to count as a massive air attack.



    But he might count as a massive HEIR attack, depending on how tricksy you think predictamancy is.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:34 am 
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    Trotsky wrote:

    But he might count as a massive HEIR attack, depending on how tricksy you think predictamancy is.


    That is brilliant. How exactly was the wording phrased? "The city will experience a massive attack by air/heir" or something like that?

    I'm wavering.

    I think ultimately, Charlie is going to be the aggressor here. Just look at that last line in the previous (or one before?) update. Posbrake being all smug that he's going to outsmart Charlie. And not just outsmart him, but unknowingly he's claiming that he's going to show Charlie how Carnymancy works. In the world of narrative, this hubris is basically Posbrake signing his own death sentence.

    It's nice to think that Creen is going to be the one who causes the "massive air/heir attack". Nobody likes Creen. "Flight" is an unusual ability for a unit to have. The homeside doesn't like Posbrake. It's been spelt out that they basically expected him to fail. If they discover they're being tricked in regards to the audits, I'm sure that's grounds for them to break their alliance. All good plot devices.

    But, in my opinion, the reason Creen has flight, is because Rob wanted a character from the homeside who would, obliviously, be able to go up to the "invading" archons and engage them personally (thereby... breaking Charlie's contract maybe? or forcing Charlie to use his Carnymancy to alter the deal or do *something*, as per Posbrake's smugness). So he's made it so the Heir to the homeside can go up there, fight the archons, and get croaked, or discover the ruse with his super close spot checks. And we'd see what gets made of it then.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:17 pm 
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    Hmm.... as much as I love Posbrake for being moderately intelligent compared to other rulers we've seen; I'm gonna have to sit my butt down in the 'homekey's gonna bite it' camp.

    Posbrake has been expertly maneuvered into the running for the 'rube of the year' award. Whether by outside intent or other means, he's maneuvered a superior mercenary force into alliance with his enemy. His chief warlord has brought in reinforcements from the very side that wanted them to be a speedbump to slow down numloch. (While that didn't go as planned, numloch is severley weakened and could probably be mopped up by delkey after the battle)

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:30 pm 
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    technojunkie wrote:
    Posbrake has been expertly maneuvered into the running for the 'rube of the year' award. Whether by outside intent or other means, he's maneuvered a superior mercenary force into alliance with his enemy. His chief warlord has brought in reinforcements from the very side that wanted them to be a speedbump to slow down numloch. (While that didn't go as planned, numloch is severley weakened and could probably be mopped up by delkey after the battle)


    Numloch is the same side that has a 300,000 schmucker bounty on Posbrake's head because they are just that rich. I don't think they're in a position to be mopped up just because they lost one battle at Weatherbug.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:26 pm 
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    Kornaki wrote:
    technojunkie wrote:
    Posbrake has been expertly maneuvered into the running for the 'rube of the year' award. Whether by outside intent or other means, he's maneuvered a superior mercenary force into alliance with his enemy. His chief warlord has brought in reinforcements from the very side that wanted them to be a speedbump to slow down numloch. (While that didn't go as planned, numloch is severley weakened and could probably be mopped up by delkey after the battle)


    Numloch is the same side that has a 300,000 schmucker bounty on Posbrake's head because they are just that rich. I don't think they're in a position to be mopped up just because they lost one battle at Weatherbug.

    I think he meant the fact that homekey took almost half of numlock's cities, not just the weatherbug thing.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:27 pm 
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    technojunkie wrote:
    Hmm.... as much as I love Posbrake for being moderately intelligent compared to other rulers we've seen; I'm gonna have to sit my butt down in the 'homekey's gonna bite it' camp.

    Posbrake has been expertly maneuvered into the running for the 'rube of the year' award. Whether by outside intent or other means, he's maneuvered a superior mercenary force into alliance with his enemy. His chief warlord has brought in reinforcements from the very side that wanted them to be a speedbump to slow down numloch. (While that didn't go as planned, numloch is severley weakened and could probably be mopped up by delkey after the battle)


    I agree that Posbrake is a massive rube, but I disagree that Homekey is going to bite it. I think it'll do just fine. Charlie wants clients, and may or may not have a shady reputation at this point in canon. Demonstrating that he's a worthwhile hire is very much in his interests, and Posbrake is going to be friendly to carnymancy in general after this; that means good things for a much-maligned group. They'll make a puppet out of Posbrake, but at least Charlie and Rose are smart enough to let him think he's calling the shots. They already did that, really.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:55 pm 
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    Yeah, I have to say, I would expect that it's in both Charlie and Dove's interest for Posbrake to come out okay in this. (And in addition, believing that there's a whole *world* of things that Carnymancers and Charlie can help him with!)

    Clients are good, but I would expect that Charlie would believe that *recurring* clients are better?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:45 am 
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    ftl wrote:
    Yeah, I have to say, I would expect that it's in both Charlie and Dove's interest for Posbrake to come out okay in this. (And in addition, believing that there's a whole *world* of things that Carnymancers and Charlie can help him with!)

    Clients are good, but I would expect that Charlie would believe that *recurring* clients are better?


    Exactly. Recurring clients are regular income *and* free advertising. I can see Charlie letting that whole bounty fall to Homekey, then siphoning the cash away over many many turns. I can also see the end result of this being Posbrake locked into a much worse arrangement with Charlie and/or Rose than he ever had with Delkey, and being too carnymanced to notice.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:52 am 
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    jeffseadot wrote:
    I can also see the end result of this being Posbrake locked into a much worse arrangement with Charlie and/or Rose...

    do you mean dove or am i forgetting some other character?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:44 pm 
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    Finn MacCool wrote:
    jeffseadot wrote:
    I can also see the end result of this being Posbrake locked into a much worse arrangement with Charlie and/or Rose...

    do you mean dove or am i forgetting some other character?


    *facepalm* Yes, Dove. I'm no good at names.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:50 pm 
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    Posbrake has previously demonstrated he's pretty sharp. I'm confident the contract allows casualties among allied troops, and given Charlie's previous actions I feel he'll play along until the contract terminates. However, I am much more worried about what happens next.

    I also have to wonder why the trap can't charge the tower. Dove might have been the one to break the rules, but Digdoug actually built the trap, so if he thinks it'll work it probably does work. Possibly charging remotely and drawing in lightning remotely are covered by separate rules and Dove only broke one.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:59 pm 
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    (name here) wrote:
    I also have to wonder why the trap can't charge the tower. Dove might have been the one to break the rules, but Digdoug actually built the trap, so if he thinks it'll work it probably does work. Possibly charging remotely and drawing in lightning remotely are covered by separate rules and Dove only broke one.


    Probably because charging the trap requires lighting to actively hit the Tower (a pretty visible event in a hex with no storm) while drawing in lighting from elsewhere during battle just draws the lightning that would naturally occur in the storm hex at the time of the battle and throws it at the enemy units. This is supposed to be a secret trap until it's activated, you know. Someone might ask why lightning is suddenly hitting the tower a few times each Turn for no reason...

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:03 pm 
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    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Like, back when [JoJo] saved Sylvia, he broke the rule that said an incapacitated unit croaks, but he also seemingly broke the rule that units automatically heal to full at start of turn.
    Actually I think it is much simpler, now that Dove has supposedly told us how Carnymancy works in plain terms. He changed the croaking rule to "This unit can only croak from fire." Since she was out of the fire, she wasn't in danger. Failure to be healed after Incapacitation should normally croak a unit, but for her that rule no longer applies.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:38 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Taikei no Yuurei wrote:
    Like, back when [JoJo] saved Sylvia, he broke the rule that said an incapacitated unit croaks, but he also seemingly broke the rule that units automatically heal to full at start of turn.
    Actually I think it is much simpler, now that Dove has supposedly told us how Carnymancy works in plain terms. He changed the croaking rule to "This unit can only croak from fire." Since she was out of the fire, she wasn't in danger. Failure to be healed after Incapacitation should normally croak a unit, but for her that rule no longer applies.

    Then why would he have had to keep casting over her every day until she got better? It's much more likely that he was breaking the "incapacitated unit croaks at start of turn" rule, each turn until he found a way to get her healed. We still don't know the nature of the "trade" he made in order to do that, but it probably has to do with her DIAF fate.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 14
     Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:57 pm 
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    I would like Dove to help Digdoug break one more rule so he doesnt have to place the pit trap on the ground/ units do not need to land to trigger it.

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