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 Post subject: Reed Richards is Useless
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:15 am 
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Recent discussions about Erfworld's culture have led me to start this thread.

I titled is as I have because of my recognition that a fantasy world does not have to move naturally along the logical lines which are suggested by the differences between our own world and the fantasy world. That is the entire concept behind Reed Richards is useless, that the existence of a super-savant such as Reed Richards doesn't necessarily have to change the world as we know it. His mastery of science never manages to remove the reliance of the world on fossil fuels for energy. He never manages to solve world hunger, or cure cancer, or provide any number of scientific solutions to very real world problems which you might think that he could easily solve.

A large part of this is the desire of the decision makers, A.K.A Stan Lee, to keep the Marvel Universe within the modern times. With no changes due to the existence of superheroes. Stan Lee said that every time Spiderman web-slung his way down New York that people would turn and say "Wow! That's Spiderman!" We here in Stupidworld would be jaded within 6 a month's time frame.

A brief reading of the TVTropes page in question will answer a lot of the reasons why this simply cannot be the case, for the Marvel Universe. But Erfworld isn't the Marvel Universe. And that isn't the kind of deconstruction which I'm looking forward to in this thread.

Here is my basic premise:

Erfworld has no pregnancy. No venereal diseases. And from what we've seen, no state religions with a long history of intolerance, and no easy excuse that the Titans must hate gay sex because it takes a man and a woman to create a child. On Erfworld, it doesn't. You just park the kid in the production queue like any other unit, but it's not really a kid. It pops fully adult. No marriage, and so no 'blessing' of a union by the Titans. No childhood, and so no point in a unit's life where being sexually active can be frowned upon, as with sexually active minors on Stupidworld.

In short, there's no reason at all that homosexual love should be any less prevalent on Erfworld than any other kind of sexual conduct. The relationship between Jillian and Wanda is only one example of this.

My conclusion: Homosexual and bisexual love are trivial and non-issues within Erfworld. Homosexual love will carry no stigma, because there is nothing within Erfworld which supports such a stigma. Nothing which in our Stupidworld causes homophobia can apply within Erfworld. Perhaps not by design, but by logical inference.

As supporting facts: We have seen nothing which suggests that homosexual love is stigmatized on Erfworld. Nothing at all. We have seen two major characters, Jillian and Wanda, who have exhibited bisexual love habits. And nothing which suggests that their proclivities are disparaged.

I welcome discussion on this topic. Discussion from the point of view of the logical conclusions of the Erfworld culture will be more welcomed than any kind of rant which has no basis in the Erfworld universe.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:58 am 
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    In response the the message of this post:
    I pretty much agree; I figure erfworlders would be more weirded out by, say, a human/twoll pairing than a guy/guy pairing. Lines are more along tribal lines than gender.

    In response the the POSTING of this post:
    This is, uh, not a page-by-page discussion of the comic. This should be in "Everthing Else Erfworld"
    Just sayin'.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:08 am 
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    Pfffft

    Like reproduction and religion are the only reasons anyone has ever banned same sex couples. I suspect you may not know anything about other religions besides Abrahamic or the things people believe about them too. Plus we don't actually know what the Titanic scriptures even say. Given how immature the rest of the setting is, it could very well ban gay dudes but think lesbians are hot. Also you assume there are no sexual diseases, which has never been said.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:34 am 
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    Reed Richards is useless because of the gay.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:36 am 
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    [edit] Nothin to see here folks

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    Last edited by 0beron on Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Reed Richards Is Useless
     Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:56 pm 
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    (topic moved from specific-page "Reactions" forum)

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:58 pm 
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    Oh gawd is parson gay? He's totally gay isn't he?

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:15 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Recent discussions about Erfworld's culture have led me to start this thread.



    In short, there's no reason at all that homosexual love should be any less prevalent on Erfworld than any other kind of sexual conduct. The relationship between Jillian and Wanda is only one example of this.



    The reason is the same that cities have stupid world type buildings, that do not do anything. Erfworld is a simulation of stupid world. So unless something is needed to make the game like rules of erfworld functional, they will be as similar as possible to stupid world.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:50 pm 
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    Sir_Dr_D wrote:
    The reason is the same that cities have stupid world type buildings, that do not do anything. Erfworld is a simulation of stupid world.
    Does there really need to be a reason for having buildings that don't do anything? Stupidworld is full of buildings that don't do anything; it's only the people inside the buildings that do things. Erfworld cities have many buildings with no functions until people move into the buildings and start using them. Unlike Stupidworld, in Erfworld there are also buildings that actually do things as described in Summer Update 36: there are banks and slaughterhouses and other buildings of that style which contribute to the production of the city even without any people inside.

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     Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:51 pm 
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    That was badly worded I suppose. Erfworld buildings all seem to have some function. But they work with out people in them. Slaughter houses will produce food on there own, and just by having the chief war lord, or city administrator walk in they produce better? That has no scientific reason, or cause and effect what so ever. In that case why even have the building? Clearly they are only for show. It only makes sense when it is thought of in terms of a simulation.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:27 am 
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    Am I the only one concerned that a thread about gay people has become a discussion about empty buildings that are boxes stuffed full of sausage?

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:59 am 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Am I the only one concerned that a thread about gay people has become a discussion about empty buildings that are boxes stuffed full of sausage?


    You and Freud both.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:35 am 
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    ...Pink Freud?

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     Post Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:37 pm 
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    Reed Richards isn't useless; he is just written by people who are far less intelligent than he is, and written by several people with very little overarching guidlelines as to how he should act.

    Thing: What was that doodad that I smashed over Doom's head anyway?
    Reed: Oh, that was one of the devices I made that would revert you back to your regular human form. That one in particular was quite fascinating in that it was calibrated to allow you to shift back and forth between your forms at will, and would eventually allow you to develop intermediary and extended forms based upon
    Thing: wait, WHAT? You coulda turned me back into a human? When did you figure that out?
    Reed: Oh, about 15 years ago, or so. That process was actually quite simple. The other applications..
    Thing: WHAT?! The why dint you use it already?
    Reed: Because I extrapolated out the effect of you undergoing such a process, not only on yourself, but on the rest of the team, and extrapolated that out on a global scale with consideration to
    Thing: English!
    Reed: If I did, you wouldn't be the Thing anymore, and that would be bad for everyone except for you. I calculated a maximum 0.001% chance of our mutual survival in any of the given scenarios we have encountered since I initially developed the device. Also, I have made considerable improvements in the process, notably after I came up with the formulae to purge all current terrestrial diseases, and end famine and drought on a global scale. This database holds the data I extracted from the scenarios...
    Thing: Wait, you can end disease and hunger for the entire world?
    Reed: Well, yes. It was actually quite easy. The fascinating part is the scenarios that I ran if I were to use any of these world changing ideas that I have. Only 36 simulations out of several million were actually beneficial to humanity, and even those I had to tweak several other values, such as also enacting a global currency. I cross referenced each of the simulation with real-world scenarios from alien cultures that are far older than the earth itself. The net result was..
    Thing: Shaddup, I dont even wanna know. You CAN do it, but that big brain of yours wont let you do it cuz you think your way out of it.
    Reed: That's a rather blunt way of looking at it.. I prefer to think about it that I had evaluated the consequences of my major break throughs before deploying them in an uncontrolled manner.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:50 am 
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    Test.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:58 am 
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    Excellent. I have removed my .sig.

    I used this thread as my testing ground.

    I do have to say that I am a bit disappointed. The responses ranged from the slightly to highly homophobic to those ignorant of the comic canon. Not the level of serious discussion I was hoping for when I opened the topic.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:23 am 
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    While I am here.

    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Like reproduction and religion are the only reasons anyone has ever banned same sex couples. I suspect you may not know anything about other religions besides Abrahamic or the things people believe about them too. Plus we don't actually know what the Titanic scriptures even say. Given how immature the rest of the setting is, it could very well ban gay dudes but think lesbians are hot. Also you assume there are no sexual diseases, which has never been said.
    Please name another reason gays have been discriminated against. I do know that a great many cultures which were not Jedeo-Christian (or Abrahamic, as you cite) have had absolutely no issue with gay/lesbian relationships. But hey, I may be uninformed, and so I welcome your dissertation on those forms of discrimination which are not reproduction or religion based.
    cheeseaholic wrote:
    Reed Richards is useless because of the gay.
    Thank you for your insightful observation.
    Sir_Dr_D wrote:
    Oberon wrote:
    In short, there's no reason at all that homosexual love should be any less prevalent on Erfworld than any other kind of sexual conduct. The relationship between Jillian and Wanda is only one example of this.
    The reason is the same that cities have stupid world type buildings, that do not do anything. Erfworld is a simulation of stupid world. So unless something is needed to make the game like rules of erfworld functional, they will be as similar as possible to stupid world.
    There is no canon support which says that everything Erfworld must be as close to Stupidworld as is possible. You do realize that the entire reason "Stupidworld" was coined was because Stanley found Earth to be so different from Erfworld as to be stupid? Stanley required a SPW subject who could speak language and breath air. That forced some similarities, and likely kept the SPW scroll from delivering a Horta... But to state that Erfworld has to be as close to Stupidworld as is possible, that is a huge stretch.
    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Am I the only one concerned that a thread about gay people has become a discussion about empty buildings that are boxes stuffed full of sausage?
    Yeah... It wasn't a thread about "gay people." It was an attempt at a deconstruction of the social mores of Erfworld, given the evidence we have been presented with so far.
    bladestorm wrote:
    Reed Richards isn't useless; he is just written by people who are far less intelligent than he is, and written by several people with very little overarching guidlelines as to how he should act.
    You missed the point entirely. Reed Richards can never provide for the world's energy needs or solve world hunger, as a consequence of the deliberate decision of the executive editors to leave the Marvel universe as one which is as close to the universe of the readers as is possible, aside from the superheroes. If the heroes solved all the problems of the world, there wouldn't be much exciting to write about, now would there?

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:03 am 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Yeah... It wasn't a thread about "gay people." It was an attempt at a deconstruction of the social mores of Erfworld, given the evidence we have been presented with so far.


    He was making fun of what you're complaining about...

    Oberon wrote:
    bladestorm wrote:
    Reed Richards isn't useless; he is just written by people who are far less intelligent than he is, and written by several people with very little overarching guidlelines as to how he should act.
    You missed the point entirely. Reed Richards can never provide for the world's energy needs or solve world hunger, as a consequence of the deliberate decision of the executive editors to leave the Marvel universe as one which is as close to the universe of the readers as is possible, aside from the superheroes. If the heroes solved all the problems of the world, there wouldn't be much exciting to write about, now would there?


    Seems like he got the point. If the writers had known and understood that restriction and had some sort of overarching plan about it, they would have made Reed Richards' insights less powerful. Or at least hedged more, so when it didn't generalize well they had something to blame it on that wasn't really stupid.

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     Post Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:18 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    He was making fun of what you're complaining about...
    And you arrived at that decision, how? All I saw was a homophobic remark without any insight on the topic.
    bladestorm wrote:
    Reed Richards isn't useless; he is just written by people who are far less intelligent than he is, and written by several people with very little overarching guidlelines as to how he should act.
    No, that's the entire point. Reed Richards is able to solve whatever situation he is faced with using high tech, and yet still not change the world with that same high tech. Stan Lee is quoted as saying that every time Spiderman swings down the street that people will stop and say "Wow! There goes Spiderman!", so that his appearance will never become jaded. On Stupidworld he'd be a commonplace event within months... This is the reason for the subject line, the unremarkable nature of same sex relations in Erfworld.

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     Post Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:46 am 
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    It's not really a topic about the social aspects of erfworld if you only talk about homosexuality, which is probably one of the least important aspects of it since, as you said, sex serves no function in erfworld except to perhaps sway a Unit's Loyalty.

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