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 Post subject: Lord Crush - Part 2
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:35 am 
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New One is up.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:03 am 
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    Amazing update. I love all the info on libraries and seing into the flow of Erfworld a little through Crush's eyes. I'm excited for the next updates!

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:09 am 
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    Yes, I also love these kinds of updates that give us more info on how Erfworld works.

    I didn't follow the discussion on update 1, does anyone know what time period these updates take place?

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:31 am 
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    There's a lil' typo in the update:
    Quote:
    Bullyclub and the Union had gone to war twice. Each time, the fighting had taken place mostly on Squashcourt’s lands. It hadn’t been fun or profitable for anyone, the the Union had held them off.


    Radagast wrote:
    Yes, I also love these kinds of updates that give us more info on how Erfworld works.

    I didn't follow the discussion on update 1, does anyone know what time period these updates take place?


    I don't think anyone could quite guess a timeline with what was given in the first update. In this update we can see Lord Crush got his hands on a book published by FAQ, which means that this is set after FAQ's creation - and if the line
    Quote:
    The fact that each of those sides had a book in the library meant that they’d all failed in one way or another.

    means that “The Principles of Peace” was automagically published (and not paid for and published by a Signamancer at the request of King Banhammer), then it is more specifically set after the downfall of FAQ.

    Very interesting update! The plot thickens!

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:39 am 
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    On the other hand, Banhammer is exactly the sort of person who would publish his books no matter the cost.

    Especially after the prediction that FAQ would fall.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:41 am 
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    CelebrenIthil wrote:
    I don't think anyone could quite guess a timeline with what was given in the first update. In this update we can see Lord Crush got his hands on a book published by FAQ, which means that this is set after FAQ's creation - and if the line
    Quote:
    The fact that each of those sides had a book in the library meant that they’d all failed in one way or another.

    means that “The Principles of Peace” was automagically published (and not paid for and published by a Signamancer at the request of King Banhammer), then it is more specifically set after the downfall of FAQ.


    I think it's pretty clear that the relative dry and boring Battle Statistic report books are the ones that are automagically published, and only after the fall of a side.

    "The Principles of Peace" is a Vanity Press publication, so it's posible that FAQ is still in existence.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:15 pm 
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    So, Rob has said Signamancers can update a library. The question is can they get request specific (types) of books, instead of just random. The ability to request all records that mention a specific side, or ruler, or get the records of fallen sides closest to you, would be useful. Not to mention the self published info dumps.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:23 pm 
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    CelebrenIthil wrote:
    means that “The Principles of Peace” was automagically published (and not paid for and published by a Signamancer at the request of King Banhammer), then it is more specifically set after the downfall of FAQ.


    Not necessarily. We know that "The Principles of Peace" was published before the first Faq kingdom fell, because Olive had already read it when she met with Banhammer.

    It must work differently. For example: Olive could have purchased it, but after Banhammer died (+70 turns) it became Public Domain and popped as a "classic".

    Quote:
    Each library contained the same three books of Scripture (“The Book of Canon,” “The Book of Retcon,” and “The Book of Fanon”)

    So, is it odd that you live in a world where everyone has a copy of how the world works? And not just how it works, How it used to work and how people think it works?

    So, what would a "Book of Fannon" have in it? Is it something akin to "Theoretical physics" that are assumptions, but not facts.
    Would these books not be the greatest thing for Parson to get ahold of, because it would show him what in this world is absolute fact (unless retconed) and what are only half-truths that he can play with?


    Last edited by Falcon X on Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:31 pm 
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    waynemcdougall wrote:
    I think it's pretty clear that the relative dry and boring Battle Statistic report books are the ones that are automagically published, and only after the fall of a side.

    "The Principles of Peace" is a Vanity Press publication, so it's possible that FAQ is still in existence.


    OTOH, we are seeing Lord Crushes thoughts, and he thinks the side has passed. This could be a (possibly erroneous) assumption, or there is something in the book indicating it was auto published. Note he makes a distinction between writing a book and publishing one. It could be as simple as auto-published books say they are published by "the erfworld press" or fate or something, and others say they were published the Signamancer that cast the spell.

    Or what the post above me said, about public domain...

    Remember the book that was enchanted so it could only be read by the true king of Jetstone? It could be all journals and books once written are auto-published with the sides other records upon its fall. That encryption would allow past kings to be brutally honest with future ones, and not worry about saying something to tarnish the good name of the side after it is gone. Which seems to be something stuck up royals would worry about.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:55 pm 
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    Falcon X wrote:
    We know that "The Principles of Peace" was published before the first Faq kingdom fell, because Olive had already read it when she met with Banhammer.
    Olive almost certainly got Banhammer's book from Banhammer's own library where it no doubt had a position of honor. It seems that the odds are slim that it would have popped randomly in some other library, even if it had been published. Whether it was published before or after the fall of Haffaton is hard to say. It seems that it would be a risk to the secrecy of Faq to publish it, but on the other hand I think Banhammer would want to share that wisdom for the good of Erfworld.

    Falcon X wrote:
    Would these books not be the greatest thing for Parson to get ahold of, because it would show him what in this world is absolute fact (unless retconed) and what are only half-truths that he can play with?
    I have to imagine that the Scriptures are pretty obvious in the library. They are probably stored separately in some sort of position of honor, or at least the library might have some sort of organization that makes the Scriptures easy to find. With all the time that Parson must have spent in Gobwin Knob's library, I'm almost sure he has already found the Scriptures.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:57 pm 
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    Falcon X wrote:

    Not necessarily. We know that "The Principles of Peace" was published before the first Faq kingdom fell, because Olive had already read it when she met with Banhammer.

    It must work differently. For example: Olive could have purchased it, but after Banhammer died (+70 turns) it became Public Domain and popped as a "classic".


    I always took it to mean that Olive had read the copy in Faq's library. Did I read that incorrectly? (No time to go back and read Inner Peace right now)

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:02 pm 
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    I'm really liking Lord Crush so far. It's rather amusing how, in a world where stats can be used to figure out most things, the power of an individual's charisma and ability to make friends can encourage someone like Scrofula to join with Maglite and break the union against even his own interests. Ambition and a sense of destiny seems to be all it takes to get rulers to make a deal with the devil, even if it'll likely end in their own destruction.

    Lord Crush is a great window into the world. He's something of a mix between Jillian and Banhammer, understanding the brutal calculus of Erfworld, but also seeking knowledge and that certain other special quality, peace. He uses his head a lot, and it shows in his conversation with Scrofula, telling him exactly what will happen, as he has a thousand examples to back it up. I just hope he -keeps- his head. Thinkers who aren't able to engage in brutal acts like Parson don't tend to keep them long.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:12 pm 
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    Quote:
    I always took it to mean that Olive had read the copy in Faq's library. Did I read that incorrectly? (No time to go back and read Inner Peace right now)

    Quote:
    The King’s eyes widened, and his mouth opened to a tiny O. “You’ve...read The Principles?”

    “I’ve read all of your writings in Faq’s library. They were perhaps the greatest prize we ever captured,” she said, setting her instrument down.


    You're right, my mistake. It seems there was only one copy at the time Olive read it.

    Quote:
    Lord Crush is a great window into the world. He's something of a mix between Jillian and Banhammer, understanding the brutal calculus of Erfworld, but also seeking knowledge and that certain other special quality, peace. He uses his head a lot, and it shows in his conversation with Scrofula, telling him exactly what will happen, as he has a thousand examples to back it up. I just hope he -keeps- his head. Thinkers who aren't able to engage in brutal acts like Parson don't tend to keep them long.

    So, we know that Parson is destined to "Break war itself". What if Lord Crush is the one that sets the stage for this.
    We see two unique features about Lord Crush: His love for Peace, and his love for past Knowledge.

    I think we are going to see Crush dig up something in Erfworld's stores of knowledge that nobody has ever noticed before. Something like Lilwik's theory that Erforld is designed not for warfare, but for economy (though I wouldn't bet that's it).
    There is already solid theory that we will see Parson's stupidworld gamers again. Maybe Crush facilitates that.

    It is a common trope in fantasy to make the person who studies the elders and the ancients the one who gains unsurpassed power (Just read Darth Bane, so it's kind've fresh in my mind).
    Rob is just the type to use such Tropes, but then turn them on their head. Crush will start the apocalypse, but Parson will twist it to it's true form.


    Last edited by Falcon X on Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:21 pm 
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    Finally some solid info on how libraries work. No word on how new books are gained if your library is fully upgraded.

    I love that they work kind of like Ultima Online, hehe. Random bookshelves. :D

    Parson-mode idea to gain books: raze and rebuild the library, or the city if necessary, removing the books each time.
    From personal experience (trying to find pages for Mystcraft) the last few percent will be annoying and there will be a lot of duplicates by that point but who cares. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:43 pm 
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    I think that there may be two books that involve Faq: "The Principles of Peace" published at great cost by Banhammer, and "The History of Faq" automagically published when faq fell.

    So when Crush mentions that "each of those sides had a book in the library" he means the history book published when they fall. No doubt he took the time to search his library for the history of faq when he found the book by Banhammer.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:20 pm 
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    rackhir wrote:
    No doubt he took the time to search his library for the history of faq when he found the book by Banhammer.
    You must be right about that, though I wish it were a bit more explicit about the existence of an automatically published history of Faq. It has always seemed to me that since Jillian survived, Faq technically survived with her and therefore the history of Faq shouldn't have been published until at least her death or abdication. Considering how important secrecy was to Banhammer's Faq, it seems awfully unfair to publish the history just because Faq lost its capital. It was only a temporary setback and Faq needed its secrecy again when Faq regained its capital after the fall of Haffaton, but that's hard if the entire history of Faq is appearing in libraries all across Erfworld.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:45 pm 
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    I love the way libraries work. I hope one day there is an Erfworld MMO and the auto-publishing of fallen sides is part of it. It'd just be cool.

    Also liking Lord Crush. He seems like he'd be a valuable asset to the right side if only they appreciated what they had.

    And yes, I'm thinking after the fall of FAQ

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:54 pm 
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    Most books about kingdoms are about kingdoms you have never heard of... so not very likely he found 2 different books on FAQ.

    It may be that the FAQ book was published in such a way it only becomes part of other sides libraries *after* FAQ falls, because while FAQ still exists it would give hints otherwise on how to destroy FAQ. However there may be loophole... FAQ was destroyed by Olive and FAQ was rebuilt before Stanley destroyed it a second time... so this story could also take place at same time as FAQ with Wanda era.

    There are 3 books every library gets... that suggests Titans are real or creator of world went to great lengths to create the Titan backstory myth.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:30 pm 
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    If I understand correctly, FAQ technically fell twice already. For the history book to appear in the library, it would have to have been popped or upgraded after one of those falls. We've seen that no capital means no side, with or without remaining units that can re-found the side. This does answer a lot of questions and speculation about books that have been floating around. "Erfworld" even posted on Facebook that "The (first Kickstarter backer story) update has been bogged down in a massive can of worms I had to open as I nail down a specific mechanical rules set in Erfworld." I had assumed this meant some alliance mechanics, but might also cover book mechanics.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 2
     Post Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:58 pm 
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    Interesting. So there are specialty buildings with cool effects. I suppose the next question is artificially produced buildings have the same effect. Can a team of signamancers and dirtamancers instal extra libraries into Spacerock for extra bonuses? Can Parson get the thinkamancers to create him a butchery shop? (Made of pure thinkamancy of course.)

    You know an interesting trick for a would be bubble side would be to publish a book detailing their defeat. It would certainly take a while, but eventually it would finish any mention of you. Especially if combined with escaping to a bubble side. Think of what Stanely was planning. Now add a signamancer publishing the GK history that ends with a crazed foolamancer killing Stanley.

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