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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:08 pm 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:28 am 
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    Poor Sizemore. Parson's only doing what he was summoned for.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:29 am 
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    Poor Sizemore... he probably thought working for Stanley was the worst possible circumstances...

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:47 am 
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    Things get broken in Wars. Soldiers ought to look at all good things from before their accepting the Crowns' Shilling, as broken for them. If you think Sizemore is hurt presently, think about the fact that all his friends are Mercenary Soldiers, that will fight for any side that pays them, the ones anyway that are not specifically part of a big conspiracy that PRESENTLY isn't aligned against GN, but any old time might be fighting to the death against him and his side.

    How sad will he be when duty leads him to sic a half dozen Rock Golems onto Janis, and follow them into attack to make sure his bonus allows them to kill her?. All as a result of Parson "seeing" it as pragmatically important to order done, as he wages his war. Because the moment he sees it ought to be done, he is going to order it, and a soldier ought to remember that. They are not noble, or good, just necessary, and killers, breakers, destroyers.

    It is almost sickening, immoral, really, that he has allowed himself to consider ONE part of Erfworld "safe" from harm. People who craft and use area effect weapons, and yet want THEIR bit of paradise kept sacrosanct ?, deserve a bomb where they live.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:53 am 
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    He's "the poop guy" back home, a caster of decent ability within his own discipline but still viewed as a lower menial by his boss who only got where he was because of his magic hammer. Here in the magic kingdom he's Norm at the bar, EVERYBODY knows his name, and respects him for the same skills that get him ridiculed at home. Now his new boss is ruining that for him, and he is TORN because now he can't be the rockstar in the place where everyone respects him and he's still unsure about how he fits into everything as GK's dynamic continues to shift.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:56 am 
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    Tonot wrote:
    Things get broken in Wars. Soldiers ought to look at all good things from before their accepting the Crowns' Shilling, as broken for them. If you think Sizemore is hurt presently, think about the fact that all his friends are Mercenary Soldiers, that will fight for any side that pays them, the ones anyway that are not specifically part of a big conspiracy that PRESENTLY isn't aligned against GN, but any old time might be fighting to the death against him and his side.

    How sad will he be when duty leads him to sic a half dozen Rock Golems onto Janis, and follow them into attack to make sure his bonus allows them to kill her?. All as a result of Parson "seeing" it as pragmatically important to order done, as he wages his war. Because the moment he sees it ought to be done, he is going to order it, and a soldier ought to remember that. They are not noble, or good, just necessary, and killers, breakers, destroyers.

    It is almost sickening, immoral, really, that he has allowed himself to consider ONE part of Erfworld "safe" from harm. People who craft and use area effect weapons, and yet want THEIR bit of paradise kept sacrosanct ?, deserve a bomb where they live.


    Ahh, but they do so when they must. Remember many of his friends have a side, and a duty, and little choice in the matter. Remember those who are free will still die if they do not put themselves to others, and remember still some can live without violence, want to live without violence, have summoned a man to do this at the risk of everything.

    this was the one place in all of Erf that actually knew peace. Not because of some magic that kept them from combat here... but because all chose not to engage in violence in literally the only place they could.

    And now it's gone.

    There is no great poetic or ironic justice here. Only tragedy.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:07 am 
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    Tonot wrote:
    Things get broken in Wars. Soldiers ought to look at all good things from before their accepting the Crowns' Shilling, as broken for them. If you think Sizemore is hurt presently, think about the fact that all his friends are Mercenary Soldiers, that will fight for any side that pays them, the ones anyway that are not specifically part of a big conspiracy that PRESENTLY isn't aligned against GN, but any old time might be fighting to the death against him and his side.

    How sad will he be when duty leads him to sic a half dozen Rock Golems onto Janis, and follow them into attack to make sure his bonus allows them to kill her?. All as a result of Parson "seeing" it as pragmatically important to order done, as he wages his war. Because the moment he sees it ought to be done, he is going to order it, and a soldier ought to remember that. They are not noble, or good, just necessary, and killers, breakers, destroyers.

    It is almost sickening, immoral, really, that he has allowed himself to consider ONE part of Erfworld "safe" from harm. People who craft and use area effect weapons, and yet want THEIR bit of paradise kept sacrosanct ?, deserve a bomb where they live.


    Unfortunately, in Erfworld, there is no Crowns' Shilling, nor any looking at any good things. All non-Rulers, including Sizemore, are slaves, more thoroughly than any human ever could be, since the moment they pop. All Erfly actions are at the behest of some Ruler, or worse, at the wishes of some uninformed Barbarian.

    Sizemore followed as close to pacifism as he could. The first book made it seem like he'd never directly ordered the death of a talking unit before : http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F112.jpg . He took what pleasures he could in the Magic Kingdom, which happened to be constructive, but the majority of his work in the rest of Erfworld was the same zero-sum game that all Erfworld units suffer.

    Tactically, Janis can stop any direct attack. She won't be able to stop half a dozen crap golems coming up out of the ground around her, and Sizemore has to initiate those explosions himself.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:43 am 
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    nargbop wrote:
    Unfortunately, in Erfworld, there is no Crowns' Shilling, nor any looking at any good things. .



    I was using the Shilling as a metaphor for choice in being a soldier. Re: choice, I think Casters are a special case?. They often are kind of free-agents, based in the Magic Kingdom?, under no particular over-whelming duty?.
    I am not sure of the specifics of Sizemores case re freedom of choice, but that the Kingdom exists as a "special place" for casters at all, makes his killing other units in other places wrong, makes him wrong, morally.
    At that point, they are just as able to say no as any boy following the drum at a fair, who CHOOSES to take up weapons for a living, and obey orders.

    That choice ought to be whole-hearted and it is shameful when people agree to be a soldier with reservations. Thinking it is "ok" to be a member of a Service that uses five hundred pound bombs delivered by jet, but saying IEDs are somehow "immoral" and wrong. I prefer my public-service-murderers to be a bit clearer about the morality of the whole idea, personally.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:52 am 
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    That is war.

    Thing about that place is tho... it was Casters only. And if they'd been isolated from the war, living alone and playing no role in it, I'd call this a sad thing to have happened. But they weren't, they were war profiteers. They hired out soldiers, plotted against the outside World, sometimes they even waged proxy war. They weren't even neutral, many of them were simply refusing to sell to Gobwin Knob, even before today. So... war came. At their own behest. If they were going to take sides, which many of them were doing, the opposing Sides were always going to come after them eventually.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:54 am 
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    It kinda looks like Sizemore is gonna betray some time in future.

    inb4 decrypted sizemore...


    Titans, I hope that doesn't happen.

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    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:00 am 
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    Whispri wrote:
    That is war.

    Thing about that place is tho... it was Casters only. And if they'd been isolated from the war, living alone and playing no role in it, I'd call this a sad thing to have happened. But they weren't, they were war profiteers. They hired out soldiers, plotted against the outside World, sometimes they even waged proxy war. They weren't even neutral, many of them were simply refusing to sell to Gobwin Knob, even before today. So... war came. At their own behest. If they were going to take sides, which many of them were doing, the opposing Sides were always going to come after them eventually.

    Exactly what I think.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:08 am 
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    If Sizemore betrays Parson, he's already lost. Not because Parson would survive, or punish him, which he probably would, but because he'd be betraying his own peaceful ideals. As soon as he wishes Parson dead, he's lost himself. Maybe Sizemore is able to betray Parson and Gobwin Knob. Maybe he's able to end the side, and live in the MK as a barbarian. He still would never be happy. He'd still be an outcast, and the guilt of his actions would still haunt him. His only chance was to have disobeyed orders, turned barbarian, and fled to the Magic Kingdom back in book 1 when he was ordered to start croaking the intruders.

    Now his only chance at a happy ending is with Gobwin Knob. Break enough things, and something new may arise.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:27 am 
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    Tonot wrote:
    he[Sizemore] has allowed himself to consider ONE part of Erfworld "safe" from harm. People who craft and use area effect weapons, and yet want THEIR bit of paradise kept sacrosanct ?, deserve a bomb where they live.


    nargbop wrote:
    All non-Rulers, including Sizemore, are slaves, more thoroughly than any human ever could be, since the moment they pop. All Erfly actions are at the behest of some Ruler, or worse, at the wishes of some uninformed Barbarian.


    Well done gentlemen. +1, +1, +1 to the both of you! You have set the stage for what I am sure will be a far more rewarding conversation than the usual fare. Tonot, yours particularly is a very uncomfortable observation.


    I am mixed in opinion myself. On one hand Sizemore exists as an excellent foil to Parson; showing that while Parson is certainly the protagonist, he is a long way off from being the actual hero of this story. On the other... despite myself being annoyed with Marie[Predictamancer meddling as a story telling device causes me to blanch], she is right in that war does need to come to the ivory, err... magic kingdom. Sizemore will only continue to suffer until he can resolve his own morality with the cosmic reality of Erfworld.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:43 am 
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    Being popped into a side is quite like, in way, one of us being conscripted by societies' laws, into a military service during wartime.

    We have some, small part in making our laws during civil life ( so in that we are MORE guilty/involved with the waging of war, its rules and results than an Erfworld lowly stabber is) but realistically, pragmatically, come your 18th birthday, and your number in the lottery, then our Earthworld experience of war isn't much different to their Erfworld experience. Disobey duty/orders and you will be disbanded/shot as an object lesson to your squadmates.

    But Casters from the Magic Kingdom are like professional soldiers. They choose to follow that trade. And a clear part of the professional soldiers trade is opponents being justified in retaliating, and your own hometown being bombed. Picking up a sword admits of your targets right to pick up his own weapon, and the person who has important reservations about that, like Sizemore displays, is at best a muddy thinker. Actually immoral.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:14 am 
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    It seems to me that casters like Carnies and Croakamancers are unlikely to become Qualified, since doing so requires respect of the MK, and Croakamancers and Carnies get next to none. This would mean that everything is not peaceful and neutral in the MK. If a caster belonging to an unpopular discipline steps out of line, and enforcement council formed is going to have their discipline underrepresented. Seems pretty corrupt, and deserving of being broken. It was only good for Sizemore because he was one of the most popular disciplines in the MK.

    Heavy speculation on my part, sure. But I have a hard time seeing any of the carnies being qualified.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:07 am 
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    The nature of the Magic Kingdom itself raises some questions: why does it exist in the first place?? I mean, there is no "Stabber Kingdom" - no place for any other unit type from different sides to go hang out in collective groups in relative peace - so why do the Casters get one? It is, when you think about it, a fundamentally weird space in Erfworld because it does not know war.

    I think Sizemore's dilemma is one facet of a much bigger problem in Erfworld - the tensions between Casting and Non-Casting units. Wanda's father wasn't particularly trusting of his casters, and I suspect that unless you manage to ingratiate yourself to your Ruler/the Nobility (i.e.: Holly Shortcake), that that sort of attitude is likely common. And in a way, I can see why: the Casters all get to hang out in a place where no other unit can go and get to rub shoulders with the enemy's own casters in complete peace, free from interference from anyone else. That is tactically very worrisome.

    That same peace that Casters get to enjoy away from their sides helps to set up a distaste for war in the Casters, which in turn adds to the tension between Casting and non-casting units. I think that the Casters have come to see themselves as somehow "other" in the tensions of Erfworld, and have somehow convinced themselves that they are not really responsible to help change the "barbarous ways" of the rest of the "lesser units" of Erfworld.

    I think Parson needed to bring war into the Magic Kingdom - if only to shake the Casters out of their complacency (and possibly to address some of the subterranean tensions that do exist among casters). And Sizemore, true to his Discipline and nature, is resisting it - with likely violent results. Janis mentioned that some things need to be broken... and that Sizemore had yet to break. I don't think he's broken just yet, and when he does, he above all others will be horrified by what he discovers about himself - his vehement hatred of Parson marks him as far less pacifistic than he likes to tell himself he is.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:03 am 
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    Tonot wrote:

    But Casters from the Magic Kingdom are like professional soldiers. They choose to follow that trade.


    What's their alternative?

    Literally, is there a place in Erfworld where someone can go and not be a soldier?

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:13 am 
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    Tonot wrote:
    Picking up a sword admits of your targets right to pick up his own weapon, and the person who has important reservations about that, like Sizemore displays, is at best a muddy thinker. Actually immoral.


    In Erfworld, everyone is born with a sword in their hand; they don't need to make a decision to "pick it up". There's no way for you to put it down, either.

    Well, there used to be. You could hang out in the Magic Kingdom, which was, to date, the one place in Erfworld which *wasn't* in a state of constant war. Heading to the MK *was* the way of putting down the sword, in spirit at least. And Parson just broke that.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:57 am 
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    Sizemore's such a crybaby. Does he not remember the host of Charlie-goon carnymancers lining up to shoot Parson the moment he came back through the portal? - and not just parson, they had no problem starting a fight with the otherwise "pacifist" predicta/thinkamancy crowd, and getting other members of the qualified involved.The war was in the Magic kingdom long before parson ever set foot in it, that's exactly what the Thinkamancers are worried about with Charlie and the g-strings, and the war is exactly why Sizemore's friends made the spell that summoned parson.

    Seems like if there's anyone sizemore should be directing his anger at right now, it's janis.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:13 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Heavy speculation on my part, sure. But I have a hard time seeing any of the carnies being qualified.


    There are strong inclinations that some Carnies might be, like JoJo (who called for an enforcement council)
    That however, is still just speculation as we have never heard him being mentioned nor called a Qualified, and he might just be a random caster calling for Qualified to assemble an enforcement council

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