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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:47 am 
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OMG!!!! Excellent catch Ninja! Was Rob seriously brilliant enough to drop that hint so long ago, or is it simply a coincidence because anyone who has to put up with Stanley for an extended period would develop headaches? :p

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:13 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    The problem is, she'd already made a deal and Charlie had delivered.

    Going back over it, that's not quite what happened.

      Jillian: Cure Wanda, and I'll sign.
      Charlie: I can't cure her, but I can keep her alive.
      Jillian: ... let's see what you can do.
      [Charlie does the giant head thing]
      Charlie: Now sign!
      Jillian: Yeeeah, wanna see if you actually helped at all, first.
      Charlie: ... fair enough!
      Jillian: Okay, you couldn't do what I originally wanted, so now I've got another offer for ya...

    I mean, if nothing else, we haven't seen Charlie try to negotiate at all. The only deal he said "no" to was something he couldn't give; we haven't hit a deal he's unwilling to make yet.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:36 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    OMG!!!! Excellent catch Ninja! Was Rob seriously brilliant enough to drop that hint so long ago, or is it simply a coincidence because anyone who has to put up with Stanley for an extended period would develop headaches? :p


    If I had to guess, I'd guess it was the other way around - it started as a joke about how anyone who had to put up with stanley would develop headaches, but then Rob saw that he could tie that in to the current story and make it a plot point, so he did. That would be neither of your two options - not a coincidence, but nor would I guess that Rob had IPTSF and the heroin buds planned way back when he wrote that TBfGK page way back when. But we'll never know unless Rob tells us.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:27 pm 
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    Yeah, that's kinda what I meant when I said coincidence. Coincidence when it was first said, then tied in deliberately later.

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    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:27 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    0beron wrote:
    OMG!!!! Excellent catch Ninja! Was Rob seriously brilliant enough to drop that hint so long ago, or is it simply a coincidence because anyone who has to put up with Stanley for an extended period would develop headaches? :p


    If I had to guess, I'd guess it was the other way around - it started as a joke about how anyone who had to put up with stanley would develop headaches, but then Rob saw that he could tie that in to the current story and make it a plot point, so he did. That would be neither of your two options - not a coincidence, but nor would I guess that Rob had IPTSF and the heroin buds planned way back when he wrote that TBfGK page way back when. But we'll never know unless Rob tells us.



    If I had to guess about this, I would say Rob was not thinking "Heroine Buds" when Wanda said she would never stop casting the "anti-headache" spell.
    I would say Rob only started thinking about "Heroine Buds" at the end of Book 1.
    If you see the first decrypted units (for example, Ansom here in the last panel and here in the 4th panel) their livery had the skull but not the bud attached to it.
    Yet a few pages after that you can start spotting the buds (for example, here in the skirt of the archon at the top right of the last panel (although curiously enough, the buds don't appear in the livery of any other unit in that strip) or here in the 6th panel in the livery of the soldier that is looking "straight into the camera"). Also in that last strip you can see Wanda wearing something in her head in the same place where the skull in the livery has the bud so I would guess at that time the idea was already in Rob's mind.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:12 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Onlyusingitonce wrote:
    This message is just fyi...
    A couple paragraphs shouldn't be that scary. But hey, you can be you.
    Also not to mention the fact that this isn't a "permanent new format". But hey, if you wanna claim to love the comic so much yet don't actually know Book 3 is gonna be a normal comic again, that's cool too.

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    GJC wrote:
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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:28 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    OMG!!!! Excellent catch Ninja!


    We've been talking about that frame ever since we saw the buds...

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:32 pm 
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    Oh, I must have missed it. Even so, this update was really the conclusive tie-in, if Rob did do it on purpose and it's not just coincidence.

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    GJC wrote:
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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:22 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Oh, I must have missed it. Even so, this update was really the conclusive tie-in, if Rob did do it on purpose and it's not just coincidence.


    As I said in my earlier post my guess is that the heroine buds were not what he was thinking of when he made that strip early in Book 1 about Wanda's headache.
    The heroine buds (or at least the story between them and Wanda) seem to be something he thought of at the end of Book 1.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:24 pm 
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    ...and as a few of us have said in different ways, it's entirely possible he did not do it intentionally at the very beginning, but once the heroine bud story was under way, he included this most recent mention of headaches deliberately, so he might have intentionally tied it back to what was previously just a coincidence. OR, he might not have noticed the connection, and the whole thing is just a random coincidence with no meaning. Nobody is contradicting you.

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    GJC wrote:
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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:36 pm 
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    I wasn't saying anyone was contradicting me.

    0beron wrote:
    Was Rob seriously brilliant enough to drop that hint so long ago


    I guess I just misunderstood you.
    I just thought you were wondering about if Rob was thinking about the Buds when he made that early strip in Book 1, not the other way around (adjusting Book 0 to "give another meaning" to Wanda's constant headache).

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:04 pm 
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    Ok no worries.

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    GJC wrote:
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    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:26 pm 
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    Is that Sarah Jessica Parker in the background there?

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:31 pm 
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    Not Me wrote:
    If I had to guess about this, I would say Rob was not thinking "Heroine Buds" when Wanda said she would never stop casting the "anti-headache" spell.
    You could be right, but it strikes me as a bit of a strange thing for Wanda to say. It's an odd joke. Was it originally meant to mean that Stanley gives her constant headaches, or perhaps all the fools she works with like Bogroll and the parasol incident? Maybe, but that just seems a bit awkward. If Rob was thinking of the buds from the very beginning that really explains Wanda's statement about headaches much better.

    Not Me wrote:
    If you see the first decrypted units (for example, Ansom here in the last panel and here in the 4th panel) their livery had the skull but not the bud attached to it.
    I see in those early pages that some skulls have flowers and some don't, and the inconsistency of it makes it seem to me that it's just a stylistic choice of deliberately leaving out tiny details in some panels where the artist decides they aren't important enough to draw. I don't think Rob suddenly decided to add flowers partway through.

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:39 pm 
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    It didn't really seem awkward at the time, I think. Especially given how we had just watched Wanda report on how booped the whole side was, made to cast a spell outside of her discipline, all the while dealing with a guy who uses a Tool of the Titans to crack walnuts... a joke about having a permanent headache made a lot of sense, I think.

    I wasn't on the boards at the time, but was there really speculation about how the constant headache was a reference to some unknown past rather than a joke?

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:03 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    I wasn't on the boards at the time, but was there really speculation about how the constant headache was a reference to some unknown past rather than a joke?
    I don't know the answer to that, but I wouldn't expect there to be any speculation at the time. At the time I'm sure it seemed like a little joke that was mildly amusing at best, just the sort of thing that people would think nothing of. Back then we didn't know Wanda very well at all, so we couldn't know that telling jokes is unusual for her.

    I think we can boil this down to three possibilities for what was intended at the time. (A) Wanda was joking about having headaches as a mild jab at all the things that annoy her. (B) Wanda really does have headaches caused by the stress from working for Stanley and dissatisfaction with her life. (C) Wanda has headaches for some other mysterious reason. Option A seems a bit odd for Wanda now that we know her better. Option B seems like an overly strong reaction to the situation. Option C seems like remarkable foresight for Rob Balder.

    Given those choices, I'm strongly tempted to choose the one where the only problem is that it would require Rob Balder to do something amazing. Rob creates Erfworld and that means he's in the habit of doing something amazing three times a week. I consider the fact that something is amazing to make it more likely that Rob did it, not less, and it seems only natural that Rob would have made a rough outline of the history of his characters before he began writing, so there's an excellent chance that he knew about the events of Book 0 in at least vague approximations.

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     Post Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:05 am 
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    When I first read the update I was of the mindset that Charlie would shoot her down cold, but now I'm not so sure. Jack described Charlie as paying a great price to keep relatively little information secret. Leaving Faq alone and restoring their kingdom isn't that big of a price. Losing the buds would be.

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     Post Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:59 am 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    Not Me wrote:
    If you see the first decrypted units (for example, Ansom here in the last panel and here in the 4th panel) their livery had the skull but not the bud attached to it.
    I see in those early pages that some skulls have flowers and some don't, and the inconsistency of it makes it seem to me that it's just a stylistic choice of deliberately leaving out tiny details in some panels where the artist decides they aren't important enough to draw. I don't think Rob suddenly decided to add flowers partway through.

    I'm not sure, but it seems to me that female decrytped have the flower attached. There are cases where it is impossible to tell whether the flower is present or not, but the three flowers I can spot in Book 1 all seem to be on women (although I could be mistaken). Also, I can't see any characters who are clearly female but don't have the flower.

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     Post Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:43 am 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    it seems only natural that Rob would have made a rough outline of the history of his characters before he began writing, so there's an excellent chance that he knew about the events of Book 0 in at least vague approximations.


    Agreed. The detail of the flowers is on the borderline of what I'd expect him to have worked out by that time. Could go either way.

    Certainly in my fiction projects I've thought of little details waay ahead of time (in one case, revealing the thought that got me thinking of the story in the first place only in chapter 26) Having scenes or random details planned out well in advance is common. Of course, sometimes you work it out on the fly.

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     Post Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:17 pm 
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    Here's the link to the original thread for the "headache spell" (erfworld 18), 5 page of it.

    I remember back then.. that's when the story started to grow on you... but i wasn't reading the forum for extra details that i missed either :)

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32166

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