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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Erfworld is a closed system. That means that, unlike Earth, it has nothing coming in. Furthermore, bubble kingdoms are impossible without the Arkenpliers. So where do shmuckers come from? If everyone is stealing from everyone else, there has to be exactly enough to go around to begin with or everyone would starve. If cities produced enough shmuckers to sustain a side, a bubble kingdom would be workable. What gives?

Here are my theories:
There's a "magic number" of cities you need to be sustainable. Regular sides, like Jetstone and TV have this many, with a few extra being disputed (if you have disputed cities, you're rich, if you don't you're poor). However, it's completely impossible to hide this many cities.

You get shmuckers for killing enemy units. I hate this idea.

Mining gives shmuckers directly, and this is the input. This would mean Erfworld has an energy crisis.

The "magic number" of cities is actually much lower than the average number of cities per side. Carport would therefore have maybe five cities, while TV would have more like ten. TV makes up the diminishing shmuckers difference by extorting tribute from Carport.

Thoughts?

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     Post Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:20 pm 
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    wasn't farming also a way to get shmuckers?

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     Post Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:33 pm 
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    Finn MacCool wrote:
    wasn't farming also a way to get shmuckers?


    Still doesn't explain why it doesn't support a bubble side. Also, I was given to understand that farming reduced upkeep instead of providing shmuckers.

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     Post Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:24 pm 
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    SNfinity wrote:
    If cities produced enough shmuckers to sustain a side, a bubble kingdom would be workable.
    Perhaps a bubble kingdom really is workable in theory, but in practice no one does what would be necessary to keep it going. Maybe if you spend all your shmuckers on only upkeep and pop only the units that you can use to improve your upkeep situation then you can manage a very modest little self-sufficient Erfworld life. It would mean that the ruler personally manages the capital and there are no soldiers guarding the walls. All of your units are mining, or perhaps boosting the productivity of farms, or similar things. Faq's problem might have been that they had too many luxuries: too many casters, too much tea.

    Another source of shmuckers might be barbarians. We don't understand the details of when or how barbarians pop, but perhaps if a city site is left alone in the wild for long enough a barbarian city has a chance of popping, then it can be captured and razed for shmuckers.

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     Post Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:46 pm 
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    There is one problem with this whole discussion:
    SNfinity wrote:
    Erfworld is a closed system.
    This is by no means a known fact, and I would even argue the story suggests the contrary.

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     Post Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:25 pm 
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    When was it ever said bubble kingdoms are actually impossible? Jillian seemed to think others might exist, but she defined them as being sides that were hidden not sides that were self sustaining. It was Jack who said otherwise to Parson. The problem is probably that if you aren't growing, you are going to get eaten by people engaged in predatory behavior. I mean, can you imagine how powerful Haffaton would have been if they invested all that magic into production instead of, for instance, turning their farms into fantasy Nazi death camps?

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