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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:11 pm 
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mortissimus wrote:
So as I see it, Charlie and then JoJo could have found out by way of:
A) Unsecure, off-screen thinkomancy
...
I would rate them:
A) Unlikely, not in Balder's style


I don't think it's unlikely at all. We see Charlie is 'on another call', which probably means listening in here, and Parson hasn't got any better communication channels. The conversation in the air doesn't play out at ALL like Jack or any of them had ever heard of this before. How else is he supposed to convey this to them?

As for it being offscreen, that's TOTALLY Rob's style. Look at the dwagon donut. We didn't find out the details on that until later. This is just the unrevealed plan guarantee in action.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:59 pm 
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    I, also, would like to know who the lady in rollers and the guy that looks like Beaver's dad is. (50s TV reference for those of you too young)

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:39 pm 
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    dwp222 wrote:
    I, also, would like to know who the lady in rollers and the guy that looks like Beaver's dad is. (50s TV reference for those of you too young)


    Well Beaver's dad was named Ward Cleaver (played by Hugh Beaumont)... but I'm at a loss for any further tie-in.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:15 pm 
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    The other call was in LIAB38 when Parson was describing the harvest plan to Wanda, and in LIAB42 Maggie does not understand why Parson needs equipment. So running through the MK was not in it then.

    But anyway, yeah you are probably right. Charlie got the intel through espionage. Upon re-reading it fits. So no indication of a spy.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:41 pm 
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    I swear I've seen the lady in rollers before. I think she's a cartoon character, or a character from a comic strip, but I just can't place her.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:51 pm 
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    What was the dwagon donut?

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:41 pm 
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    nargbop wrote:
    What was the dwagon donut?


    I believe that refers to Parson's Book 1 tactic of surrounding the wounded dwagons with 6 hexes of healthy ones - or rather, pretending to.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:47 pm 
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    twhitt wrote:
    I think the "and he'll know how we know" is well read this way: "And he'll know that Parson is the one telling his secrets to all his enemies." Sure, he'll know Jack is the source of the info. I believe an all-powerful thinkamancer can probably track that info down, given what he knows. But the other bit is really a good deal more important, and it's what Charlie would care more about. It's a personal goading on Parson's part.


    Does Parson mean actually know (the truth), or that Charlie will "know" (assume) the method, because of how Charlie himself would do the business?

    I think you're right that Parson is button-pushing, but I'd like to add that while Charlie could figure it out, he might not actually have done so due to his own ingrained instincts. Instead, what Parson said is intended to push Charlie's Paranoia Button, hoping that Charlie first reaction will be automatically believe he is being spied upon, because that is what he fears the most.

    Edit: Think about this further, I believe this is part of a Parson Gambit to respond to Wanda's disclosure that Charlie has (or will soon have) access to re-turned (heh) decrypted units. In particular, Parson needs to make Charlie suspicious of the loyalty of his own Archons, and what they might have known pre-decryption.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:31 pm 
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    Some of the Great Minds which have been identified are easy to understand. And some I just do not understand at all. Issac (Newton) and Roger Victor Clarence (Thomas)? No problem. But Pamelor (Anderson)? The intent goes right over my head. To my knowledge, Pamela Anderson has a high school diploma only. And from interviews of hers which I've seen, she is no brain trust. While she is undeniably successful as a self-promoter, that has nothing to do with brain power. Or else we'd see the Kardashians and the tools from The Jersey Shore in their ranks as well. Someone like Lisa Kudrow I could understand. She often plays ditzy characters, but she has a BA in Biology, and anyone who watched an interview with her could not miss her intelligence.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:42 pm 
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    Pamelor Ambien (her full name) are both names of psychiatric medications. An anti-depressant and anti-insomniac to be exact. It's a joke on Pamela Anderson's name sounding like the names of mind altering medications.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:55 am 
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    Guppy wrote:
    Does Parson mean actually know (the truth), or that Charlie will "know" (assume) the method, because of how Charlie himself would do the business?

    I think you're right that Parson is button-pushing, but I'd like to add that while Charlie could figure it out, he might not actually have done so due to his own ingrained instincts. Instead, what Parson said is intended to push Charlie's Paranoia Button, hoping that Charlie first reaction will be automatically believe he is being spied upon, because that is what he fears the most.

    Edit: Think about this further, I believe this is part of a Parson Gambit to respond to Wanda's disclosure that Charlie has (or will soon have) access to re-turned (heh) decrypted units. In particular, Parson needs to make Charlie suspicious of the loyalty of his own Archons, and what they might have known pre-decryption.
    That's a great point about the Archon, which I hadn't considered. Obviously Archons have some valuable intel, and obviously Charlie's been pretty intense about restricting what even they know about him. My recollection is that per the updates, Parson never really got that much from the captured Archons; just city and troop counts and deployment intel.

    I'm suggesting that Parson's source of information from Charlie was Jack and may have been the Archons and none of that matters very much. The leak here is Jack, fine, but the important player is Parson, who is actively distributing the secrets as widely as possible, as fast as possible. It's that behavior, far more than the nature of the information, that is likely to incense Charlie in my opinion.

    After all, assuming Charlie has the least possible info right now, his leak could be Jack, Jillian, a turned or rogue Archon, a carny, a double-agent thinkamancer, or almost any rogue caster who is long-lived enough. It's probably not one of his golems... but it doesn't matter much! The situation was stable for thousands or tens of thousands of turns, and now Parson is making it highly unstable.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:33 am 
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    0beron wrote:
    mortissimus wrote:
    Presumably because Jack and Parson had gamed the scenario beforehand and named it "lets do lunch".
    I doubt that, because Parson seemed to be treating it like a new idea he had in response to Kingworld. Kingworld is the only situation in which "let's do lunch" would be necessary for a city fight, and nobody saw Kingworld coming, so I doubt Parson would have even considered the situation.


    Actually, we know that Parson and Jack spent a lot of time running gaming scenarios and after the way The Battle For Gobwin Knob ended ideas involving entering the Magic Kingdom would definitely be on Parson's radar. He may not have expected to need that scenario in this particular battle before Kingworld, but it's very plausible that it was in the Parson playbook for emergencies and that Jack and Wanda (or at least Jack) were in on it.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:07 am 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Someone like Lisa Kudrow I could understand. She often plays ditzy characters, but she has a BA in Biology, and anyone who watched an interview with her could not miss her intelligence.



    She did a travel show segment with Ruby Wax once, went to London. A Metropolitan Policeman was talked to, and he said something like "Oh, you are that young woman from the American TV show *looks around extremely excited* did you bring any of the others with you?".

    The resulting play of emotion and accompanying flow of sarcasm on Ms Kudrow's part was both memorable and not-in-character as Phoebe. :lol:

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:47 am 
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    twhitt wrote:
    Obviously Archons have some valuable intel, and obviously Charlie's been pretty intense about restricting what even they know about him. My recollection is that per the updates, Parson never really got that much from the captured Archons; just city and troop counts and deployment intel.
    I think you recall correctly, but I'm sure that Parson got everything important that the Archons knew. Parson of all people wouldn't fail to ask questions, and yet Parson doesn't seem to have discovered anything really world-shaking. It's almost enough to make me think that Charlie really is just paranoid and that he doesn't really have any important secrets to keep. Unfortunately that can't be right because the Great Minds seem to confirm that Charlie has important secrets, because the Great Minds also have secrets about Charlie that are so important that they can't be shared with Parson.

    So something that the Archons told Parson was probably some sort of clue to something big that Charlie wants to keep secret, probably something bigger than even the big thing that the Great Minds know. Whatever the clue is, it's probably somewhere in Summer Update 46, unless Parson asked about other things in the hours he spent talking to the Archons. Whatever it is, I can't see it.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:31 am 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    Pamelor Ambien (her full name) are both names of psychiatric medications. An anti-depressant and anti-insomniac to be exact. It's a joke on Pamela Anderson's name sounding like the names of mind altering medications.
    Huh. I missed that entirely. I've never heard of Pamelor, and although I've heard the word Ambien (probably on a commercial for it), I didn't really know what it was for. I tend to tune out a lot of medical commercials since so much of it is, in my opinion, complete bullshit. Pharma companies seem to delight in inventing disorders to cure with their medications. Insomnia? Try getting a decent amount of rest and cutting out stress. Restless leg syndrome? Try getting a decent amount of rest and cutting out stress. Erection dysfunction? Try getting a decent amount of rest and cutting out stress. Rinse, repeat. Our culture turns to a pill to solve problems that need to be attempted through lifestyles changes first.

    And don't get me started on the warnings. Once they start getting into thoughts of suicide, organ damage, and death you have to wonder if they understand the definition of medicine. Although I guess it's understandable for an antidepressant drug study to have that reported, if they are testing it on individuals who have been diagnosed with depression.

    Tonot wrote:
    Oberon wrote:
    Someone like Lisa Kudrow I could understand. She often plays ditzy characters, but she has a BA in Biology, and anyone who watched an interview with her could not miss her intelligence.
    She did a travel show segment with Ruby Wax once, went to London. A Metropolitan Policeman was talked to, and he said something like "Oh, you are that young woman from the American TV show *looks around extremely excited* did you bring any of the others with you?"

    The resulting play of emotion and accompanying flow of sarcasm on Ms Kudrow's part was both memorable and not-in-character as Phoebe. :lol:
    Well, it sounds like she was not in character as Phoebe, so why would you expect it from her? And a bit of sarcasm directed at some Jennifer Aniston drooler is fair game, in my book.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:08 am 
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    Quote:
    Insomnia? Try getting a decent amount of rest and cutting out stress.


    I find exercise is more useful to get yourself primed to rest, which is when the problem occurs. TRYing to get 8 hours of sleep doesn't help if you spend it awake.

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:57 pm 
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    Well, one of the other cures for depression is inserting cybernetic electrodes into the subjects brain, so maybe the organ damage is better than being a suicidal cyborg?

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:43 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    Quote:
    Insomnia? Try getting a decent amount of rest and cutting out stress.

    I find exercise is more useful to get yourself primed to rest, which is when the problem occurs. TRYing to get 8 hours of sleep doesn't help if you spend it awake.
    That's not contradictory, it is supportive. If you find that exercising reduces stress and allows you to sleep, then DO IT. Especially DO IT before you just cop out and take a pill that has a horrible amount of potential side effects. Our (USA) medical establishment is far, far too focused on treating issues with drugs rather than suggesting lifestyle changes to address issues.

    I've suffered from insomnia. I have a high stress job, and I've had high stress issues in my personal life as well. I've never considered turning to pharmacology to resolve these issues. To me that's just like turning to pot or alcohol or heroin as a solution to my problems. i.e. Not a solution at all.

    People laugh at Scientology as a fake religion. And it is laughable, and it is a fake religion. Completely invented out of whole cloth by L. Ron Hubbard*. But when I've seen criticism of Tom Cruise for his position on eschewing therapy via drugs, I have to wonder just how horrible this fake religion is. It is certainly no less reprehensible than any other of the many fake religions which have enslaved most of mankind. Throw away the money collection which all of the major religions have as their backbone of wealth, and Scientology starts to make some sense in some of its tenets, despite the fact that it is a crack pot, invented religion.




    * But then again, Christianity was invented Jesus and his disciples. Islam was invented by Mohammed. Mormonism was invented by Joseph Smith. Etc. And, the accusation "invented out of whole cloth" doesn't actually apply to those religions, since all three borrowed heavily from the existing mythology which came before them. Scientology and Mormonism can at least be said to have invented almost completely new mythologies for their religions, with Scientology using the cleanest of blackboards to begin from: The imagination of a science fiction author...

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:33 pm 
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    Oberon wrote:
    Our (USA) medical establishment is far, far too focused on treating issues with drugs rather than suggesting lifestyle changes to address issues.

    I've suffered from insomnia. I have a high stress job, and I've had high stress issues in my personal life as well. I've never considered turning to pharmacology to resolve these issues. To me that's just like turning to pot or alcohol or heroin as a solution to my problems. i.e. Not a solution at all.

    People laugh at Scientology as a fake religion. And it is laughable, and it is a fake religion. Completely invented out of whole cloth by L. Ron Hubbard*. But when I've seen criticism of Tom Cruise for his position on eschewing therapy via drugs, I have to wonder just how horrible this fake religion is. It is certainly no less reprehensible than any other of the many fake religions which have enslaved most of mankind. Throw away the money collection which all of the major religions have as their backbone of wealth, and Scientology starts to make some sense in some of its tenets, despite the fact that it is a crack pot, invented religion.




    * But then again, Christianity was invented Jesus and his disciples. Islam was invented by Mohammed. Mormonism was invented by Joseph Smith. Etc. And, the accusation "invented out of whole cloth" doesn't actually apply to those religions, since all three borrowed heavily from the existing mythology which came before them. Scientology and Mormonism can at least be said to have invented almost completely new mythologies for their religions, with Scientology using the cleanest of blackboards to begin from: The imagination of a science fiction author...


    I can't find much to disagree with here, but is this really the place to air your views on religion and the pharmaceutical industry?

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:15 pm 
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    Xarx wrote:
    I can't find much to disagree with here, but is this really the place to air your views on religion and the pharmaceutical industry?
    Why not? There is a "Great Mind" whose name has been revealed to me to be the conjunction of two psychoactive drugs. How does that exclude my own thoughts on such drug use as a topic of discussion?

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