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 Post Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Darn, people beat me to the already discussed angle.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:01 am 
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    the_tick_rules wrote:
    Darn, people beat me to the already discussed angle.


    You could be meta and discuss it again.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:40 am 
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    MonteCristo wrote:
    Ansom was a strategist, not just one for brute force and he was in charge for the most part up until this last turn; and Wanda used her influence over him to allow Parson to have an indirect say in matters. Ansom will know how GK has operated up to this point; he will know how much their is in their treasury, their unit total from before the battle, know the defenses of all of their cities, their patrols, the locations of the dwagons for GK's relay system and so on. GK's enemies will be able to make a lot of use out of that kind of information when planning their counter attack on GK... Parson will have to do a great deal of reshuffling throughout the entire side.

    The archon would at the very least be able to tell Charlie what Parson knows about him; thus allowing him to reshuffle his own defenses.

    The Archon will be a problem, but Ansom? Not so much. Even if he does turn and spill all, Jillian is far more a warrior than a tactician. She wouldn't be able to use this info all that well herself. Charlie could, but judging by recent events, he considers her too unreliable to work with.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:04 am 
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    I guessed, along with everyone else apparently, that the reiteration was a repeat for audience convenience, and to drive home the point.

    I think there is a potential risk in captured decrypted. Depending on the magical and mental connections between them and Wanda, she might be at real risk of some form of backlash. Remember the discussion in Book 1 where it was revealed that a skilled thinkamancer can kill someone using magical backlash. Wanda looked a bit shell-shocked just from Ossomer turning, and there's the possibility someone might try to send a spike down the line, so to speak, via one of the captured units.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:41 am 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    MonteCristo wrote:
    Ansom was a strategist, not just one for brute force and he was in charge for the most part up until this last turn; and Wanda used her influence over him to allow Parson to have an indirect say in matters. Ansom will know how GK has operated up to this point; he will know how much their is in their treasury, their unit total from before the battle, know the defenses of all of their cities, their patrols, the locations of the dwagons for GK's relay system and so on. GK's enemies will be able to make a lot of use out of that kind of information when planning their counter attack on GK... Parson will have to do a great deal of reshuffling throughout the entire side.

    The archon would at the very least be able to tell Charlie what Parson knows about him; thus allowing him to reshuffle his own defenses.

    The Archon will be a problem, but Ansom? Not so much. Even if he does turn and spill all, Jillian is far more a warrior than a tactician. She wouldn't be able to use this info all that well herself. Charlie could, but judging by recent events, he considers her too unreliable to work with.


    If Jillian manages to turn Ansom, she would most likely appoint him Chief Warlord and while Jillian prefers to lead battles herself, she would most likely listen to Ansom's advice; Afterall, she's been following Charlie's plans for a while now and she doesn't even like him. Not to mention that Jillian is still part of the coalition against Stanely which means they may plan together, with again, the othersides wanting Ansom's info on GK. Tremmenis and Don are too smart not to realize that Ansom will have tons of valuable strategic info. And even if Charlie doesn't find her easy to work with, he will still try to get the information out of her; And she would be willing to share considering she wants Stanley Croaked

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:27 am 
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    Beeskee wrote:
    Remember the discussion in Book 1 where it was revealed that a skilled thinkamancer can kill someone using magical backlash. Wanda looked a bit shell-shocked just from Ossomer turning, and there's the possibility someone might try to send a spike down the line, so to speak, via one of the captured units.


    At least they are spared the problem that real agent-or-spy-running controllers suffer, where double agents might get discovered and turned into triple agents. She isn't going to remain unaware if Ansom does get turned back to Spacerock. Charlie can't turn him and then use him to feed dis-information back to GK through Wanda.

    And that is a question too, is she in communication with her decrypted?. We know she can sense them at least enough to know that they are still "On her team" when she is in the same Hex, can she do the same when they are in other Hexes?.

    I wonder if the troops she mass-decrypted would be easier to Turn then ones like Ansom whom she individually cast on?. I remember that when she was acting on her own, there was an improved effect on capabilities for people she concentrated her whole attention on. Is there durability or endurance for her decryptied in proportion to the amount of attention she gave them?.

    Has she mass-decrypted with the Arkenpliers, or have they all been done individually?.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:21 am 
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    Tonot wrote:
    Has she mass-decrypted with the Arkenpliers, or have they all been done individually?.


    They're mostly mass-decrypted, but she can probably only cover one hex at a time. From what we've seen in updates regarding that piker who was executed and then decrypted, his change of mind doesn't seem too different from Ansom, who received an individual decryption, so the quality of mass-decrypt and single decrypt doesn't seem all that different.

    nargbop wrote:
    There's no problem with Ossomer's dust being in enemy hands

    Not Ossomer's dust. They're referring to former Chief Warlord Ansom of Gobwin Knob.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:25 am 
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    Well I don't think Ansom will turn, he really has a high loyalty to toolism or whatever.

    I believe the reason Ansom has a high loyalty while Ossomer didn't is simple: Ansom was decrypted after he was defeated. His defeat made it easier for him to accept that his royalty ideas are inferior. (There must be another way of forming this sentence but not enough english skills...boop)

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:32 am 
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    MonteCristo wrote:
    Tremmenis and Don are too smart not to realize that Ansom will have tons of valuable strategic info.
    And even if Charlie doesn't find her easy to work with, he will still try to get the information out of her;

    Bunny does not speak, she always uses thinkamancy - so she is a leak for Charlie...
    That means, every info Jillian shares with Transylvito, Charlie will get for free.

    At least, until the thinkamancers issue a security-notice :mrgreen:

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:49 am 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    Well I don't think Ansom will turn, he really has a high loyalty to toolism or whatever.

    I believe the reason Ansom has a high loyalty while Ossomer didn't is simple: Ansom was decrypted after he was defeated. His defeat made it easier for him to accept that his royalty ideas are inferior. (There must be another way of forming this sentence but not enough english skills...boop)

    You got your point across perfectly, my friend. :D Some of us who have it as our first Language have more trouble than that!.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:26 am 
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    If they are still GK units, Stanley should disband both Ansom and the archon, or maybe Wanda can do it. There is no chance of rescue. We haven't seen any distance limits on disbanding have we? Stanley has been shown to be able to sense GK units anywhere so he should be able to do it.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:38 am 
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    Unclear if prisoners can be sensed by ruler or disbanded.

    ...

    Decrypted can turn is also a *useful* feature, can be used in trade. Eg Prince Sammy is dead, you bring him back to life and let other side capture him back as part of a deal.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:09 am 
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    BCCroaker wrote:
    If they are still GK units, Stanley should disband both Ansom and the archon, or maybe Wanda can do it.
    We learned in Book 0 that a prisoner belongs to the side that has captured it. The prisoner's turn is that side's turn, complete with healing and having move on that turn. The upkeep of the prisoner is also paid by the side that's captured him. I think there's roughly zero chance that it's possible for Stanley to disband Ansom because Ansom is now a Faq unit. Jillian might be able to disband Ansom, as long as Jillian is paying Ansom's upkeep.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:46 am 
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    Ansom's upkeep of 0?

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:56 am 
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    I remember a decrypted archon surviving the battle of jetstone by hiding in a roof... If I am correct, she is gonna be pretty important now...

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:56 am 
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    WarFAN wrote:
    I remember a decrypted archon surviving the battle of jetstone by hiding in a roof... If I am correct, she is gonna be pretty important now...


    Remember that the crown was turned into a Thinking Cap so that the Slately (and his duplicate) could see through Foolamancy. In episode 83, the Archon you mentioned is shown being advanced on by Jetstone units being led by Duplicate Slately.

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2012-08-01.jpg

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:34 am 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    davidj wrote:
    Wanda seems awfully down. Maybe she knows they'll have to go against Charlie, and she doesn't like it?

    Yeah, I suspect she doesn't want to croak Charlie, at least permanently, since she both has been telling the Archons she is fated to be on the same side as Charlie, and told Jillian she would never attack Charlescomm.


    MonteCristo wrote:
    Honestly, i want to know more about how Wanda feels about Parson wanting to fight Charlie. Wanda seemed to indicate she did not want to fight charlie, so frankly i think she would have atleast something to say about the idea that Parson is supposed to croak Charlie; it should really mess with her head since would be enough for her to think that she may be interpreting her fate wrong... heck she should atleast be surprised to hear that Charlie was involved in this battle against them; i don't think Parson has had a chance to tell her that he was behind Jojo's interference and everything else.


    What if what we still need to learn from Book 0 is that Charlie not only got an NDA from FAQ but also got some kind of "agreement" so that those units had to always rationalize at avoiding any direct engagement against Charlescomm (at least from that dangerous Croakamancer so maybe Jack is not aware of it)? And only when Wanda was "really messed up" and GK against the wall during Book 1 was she able to kind of "break" that and fire the tower defenses against the Archons.
    Would be interesting to see how Parson fights against Charlie if this is the case.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:01 am 
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    Wait a minute . . . Ansom is in Jillian's hands, not Charlie's. If he's going to turn at all, he's going to turn back to her.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:07 am 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    Well I don't think Ansom will turn, he really has a high loyalty to toolism or whatever.

    I believe the reason Ansom has a high loyalty while Ossomer didn't is simple: Ansom was decrypted after he was defeated. His defeat made it easier for him to accept that his royalty ideas are inferior. (There must be another way of forming this sentence but not enough English skills...boop)


    This is definitely a part of it. But just as important is the fact that Ossomer had no time to adjust to it outside of battle. Ossomer was immediately led into battle against his former side, and left alone to think about it with Jetstone units just across the zone boundry. I o wonder if Wanda''s location had anything to do with it. Ossomer turned after she left the hex and went into the MK.

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     Post Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:06 am 
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    My bet is that Wanda now must learn the value of life. As long as she treats her subjects like normal undead puppets without respecting their personality, they might turn away from her.

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