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 Post subject: Re: Arkentool
 Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:15 pm 
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True true. It's been awhile since I've read the whole series through and through (which I shall be doing post-haste), but is it implied or explained that dirtamancy is exclusively just able to manipulate dirt? I'd think that some changamancy (which is Fate) would be involved in the creation of the golems; though, it could be argued that the state of the golems are still dirt/rock/metal, but with some sentience. Just some random thoughts...

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:42 pm 
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    Marlowe wrote:
    True true. It's been awhile since I've read the whole series through and through (which I shall be doing post-haste), but is it implied or explained that dirtamancy is exclusively just able to manipulate dirt? I'd think that some changamancy (which is Fate) would be involved in the creation of the golems;


    It is possible that each magic field still requires some kind of basic abilities in the other fields.

    The golems that Sizemore makes might be 90% based on his Dirtamancy skill and 10% of some other field.

    That might explain why casters are able to cast spells in other fields. Each caster might have a skill score in all the other types of magic. Sizemore might have high skill in Dirtamancy and low skills in the rest. Wanda, OTOH, might have the same skill in all types of magic (she would seem to have rolled high in all of them).

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:18 pm 
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    Its mentioned that Wanda and Sizemore are complete opposites because -
    Wanda is skilled at all spell schools, but only ever uses one
    and
    Sizemore is only good at one spell school, but shows interest in all of them.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:11 pm 
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    Good job all with the "Fate" magic connection - the Carnymancy and Hippymancy both fit right in.

    This may be a dead end, but there's one other thing to keep in mind: Erfworld is like a game, right? Most good games have balance. There are super game-breaking weapons? Well, I'd guess that, at first, each side would have equal access to them (though that could change with time). This could be a function of their location as well as the location of those who can attune with them. Wanda may count for the Croatoans, Stanley for his side, Charlie for his own.... in any case, I think the other "adepts" may originate in other areas.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:34 pm 
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    I just had an idea. What if the hammer gives Stanley dwagonic abilities? Like flight and blue dwagon lightning. Maybe he can breathe fire like a red? Or harness the power of a yellow?

    Not sure where the walnut to pigeon thing comes into this though.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:25 pm 
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    Chox wrote:
    I don't think that the concept of holly has any meaning in Erf. {snip}

    Sorry but this is flat out false. In Stanley's speech http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F032.jpg panel 6 specifically.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:50 pm 
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    There is no reason to assume that a Sizemore-attuned Tool has to not be Dirtamancy; just because it is Fate magic doesn't mean it is only Fate magic. That magic may only limit the full power of the Tool to a single person.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:45 am 
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    Quote:
    hanglekuk wrote:
    The dish (it is a sat dish on charlies HQ) affects thinkamancy (which by itself is Life+Motion with Axis as Fate).
    Pliers - is croakamancy (which is Motion+Matter with Axis as Fate).

    Since these tools "natural" `mancy is combined from two of the elements with axis as fate, the other two would be other combinations with the same alignment.

    Now the rest of arkentools might be one for hippiemancy (Life+ Matter) - (parson is a hippiemancer). Allignment Fate - would be a Signamancy. No idea what signamancy is used for (significant-other-mancy)?

    The fourth tool might be from stagemancy (Life+Motion+Matter) and Axis Fate - gives Carnymancy. My guess - this is da hammer.
    Unfortunately, my English is lacking to notice some puns/clever details behind these names.


    I agree that the fourth Arkentool is probably Signamancy. It fits perfectly.

    Hippiemancy is about life and matter, i.e. the taking care of people and the world around them, not war. I believe Signamancy to be about Diplomacy and Preventing Combat. (Signing a treaty-SIGNamancy) So I suggest that the Arkenbong or Saw or whatever, be able to prevent combat on a scale unmatched by other Signamancers. Parson (if he is in fact a Hippiemancer) finding and using the 4th Arkentool might be the ultimate conlusion and the end of all wars.

    Or maybe it's a Dirtamancy Arkenshovel that can make Erf explode. That would be pretty cool too.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:20 am 
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    Gilgash wrote:
    Or maybe it's a Dirtamancy Arkenshovel that can make Erf explode. That would be pretty cool too.


    A dirtamancy Arkentool might be able to change terrain type. That would be pretty strong, but not impossibly overpowered, and in keeping with the Dirtamancy theme. Maybe it could be the Arkenspirit level or the Arkenruler, to signify and architect/engineer/builder (or maybe Arken(measuring)tape).

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:25 pm 
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    Has anyone thought that maybe the arkentools don't represent any particular magic field at all and instead augment whatever power the unit attuned to them already had? We know for sure that the arkenpliers improve croakamancy, but Wanda is a croakamancer. There's confusion over the arkenhammer and its power but whose to say that it didn't just reflect the power that Stanley had? He seems to value brute force, and the dwagons certainly give him that. Also, I don't think it's been said what sort of unit Charlie is. Could Charlie be a thinkamancer and the arkendish just improved his own thinkamancy powers? I'd lean against this theory, but its always possible.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:41 pm 
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    It's interesting that the Arkenpliers allow Wanda to "break" the normal rules - not unlike how Charlie was able to hack into the unhackable thinkamancy book Parson was using.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:42 pm 
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    Shadow of the Lotus wrote:
    Has anyone thought that maybe the arkentools don't represent any particular magic field at all and instead augment whatever power the unit attuned to them already had? We know for sure that the arkenpliers improve croakamancy, but Wanda is a croakamancer. There's confusion over the arkenhammer and its power but whose to say that it didn't just reflect the power that Stanley had? He seems to value brute force, and the dwagons certainly give him that. Also, I don't think it's been said what sort of unit Charlie is. Could Charlie be a thinkamancer and the arkendish just improved his own thinkamancy powers? I'd lean against this theory, but its always possible.


    Not really. There was a bit of foreshadowing when Ansom had them and explained that they had a huge bonus vs. uncroaked. But given that the Tools have Fate magic as a component, it's not inconceivable that the Tools are designed with certain people in mind. (Like the Arkenhammer having a bonus to Lookamancy for Lookamancers who are attuned to it, or somesuch.)

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:57 pm 
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    I'm thinking the opposite direction. The tool chooses the one most compatible. But who knows.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:18 am 
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    I guess I just don't like the idea that the arkentools are all magic based and on the fate axis. That seems to be a pretty popular theory, but I still want to think that non-magic units can attune to tools too. Stanley doesn't seem to be any sort of caster but attuned to his tool. I guess the real argument is that each tool is some sort of magic-incarnate item with each magic they represent being on the fate axis. I didn't think that the arkenpliers could go to Wanda until the one page where she was down for the count and asked Ansom to touch her with the pliers. I'm still leaning towards the "tools are holy" explanation for why they destroyed uncroak units. I believe the tools-are-a-magic argument more than the one I just put forth; I just hope that they don't necessarily represent a magic and one that is on the fate axis.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:15 pm 
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    I think they tools must have a much broader range than one discipline of magic. Also them being fated for a particular person doesn't mean they have to fall on the fate axis. Magic effects natural elements of the world. Fate is one of those natural elements. At least that's how I see it. The fate axis is a powerful and important aspect of magic. That doesn't make it the be all end all of what fate is in erfworld.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:41 pm 
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    Perhaps its all a coincidence that the know Arkentools are (Appeartobe) on the Fate axis. Maybe there's one for every type of magic.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:53 pm 
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    The theory that all the Arkentools are based on only the Fate Axis never made sense to me. After all, the ArkenTOOLS were supposedly used by the titans right? I don't know about you, but I don't think that they could create Erfworld without using any tools on the Axis of Erf and Numbers.

    Like a good game world Erfworld needed to be crafted by Erf (The land), Fate (The story), and numbers (The Mechanics). So the Titans "Toolbox" would need to have "tools" for every aspect of Erfworld. Every Discipline (Predictamancy, Hippiemancy, Mathamancy etc.) Would have an Arkentool aligned to "Do that job".

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:41 am 
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    A few things I've thought of so far:
    1) The Arkentools may have different effects if attuned to a Caster than to a Warlord.
    2) Each Arkentool has an associated advanced creature type. A low-level Dwagon is still quite a strong unit, as is low-level Archon.
    3) The Hammer seems likely to have a Changemancy-related effect. http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F004.jpg
    4) If the Arkentools amplify magic, it may be that Wanda's new "decryption" ability may be a result of her increased skill, not necessarily a feature of the Pliers.
    5) Perhaps the Arkentools give warlords basic magical skill in their school? A
    6) Shockamancy seems very unlikely to be related to actual electricity. I urge you NOT to google anything Sizemore says, lest ye be shocked by a shock site and unable to move for the rest of your turn. I'm quite certain this is a shockamancy spell- read the comic right before it. http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F126.jpg
    7) At least two, and probably all three, of the identified Arkentools are aligned with Fate magic.
    8) Arkentools attuned to warlords ~may~ grant magical ability- Ansom wasn't attuned, and did not learn basic Croakamancy. Our Holy Toolship is attuned, and turned walnuts into nuts. This may have been entirely done by the hammer's magic.
    9) On the first page, three of the Titans of Ark are shown. One has red gems, one has blue gems, and one has green gems in their outfits. Red is a color often aligned with croakamancy, and blue is often used to illustrate thinkamancy effects. Could Green be a sign of Signmancy, Predictamancy, or Changemancy?

    If these are true, then:
    -The Pliers give a caster Grandmaster-class [if I may call it that] Croakamancy when attuned, and gives a warlord basic Croakamancy magic, gives a warlord a magical croakamancy attack [recroak] and a leadership multiplier, and allows their side to pop and control some strong Undead creature.
    -The Dish gives a caster* Grandmaster-class Thinkamancy when attuned, and gives a warlord basic Thinkamancy magic, gives a warlord a magical thinkamancy attack [disruption], and a leadership multiplier, and allows their side to pop and control Archons.
    -The Hammer gives a caster Grandmaster-class Changemancy when attuned, and gives a warlord basic Changemancy magic, a magical changemancy attack [change air into lightning? not so sure about this one], and a leadership multiplier, and allows their side to pop and control Dwagons.

    *Can casters become overlords or heirs? I haven't read anything that suggests that it would be impossible. It might be something very rare, which would help explain why Charlie is considered strange.

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:49 am 
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    I thought thinkamancy was yellow?

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     Post subject: Re: Arkentool
     Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 8:05 am 
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    Mikalyaran wrote:
    I thought thinkamancy was yellow?


    -All thinkagrams are blue.
    -Charlie's Archons, which he has because of his Thinkamancy artifact, have a blue aura surrounding them.
    -Other instances of thinkamancy magic are also blue.
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F111.jpg

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