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 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Mikalyaran wrote:
Units cannot actually predict when they are going to level (Jillian is being flippant when she tells the Archons, "Cmon, it'll be fun. You'll level." but it would be a reasonable bet they might if they took out a stack of dwagons.)


Somewhat to the contrary we have been shown that how close a unit is to leveling is something that is knowable. Wanda said the woman chosen to kill Ossomer was selected because she was "close to leveling". Now, maybe this is specific to Wanda and decrypted but we have no evidence either way.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -12-03.jpg

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:43 pm 
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    GrandReaper wrote:
    Mikalyaran wrote:
    Units cannot actually predict when they are going to level (Jillian is being flippant when she tells the Archons, "Cmon, it'll be fun. You'll level." but it would be a reasonable bet they might if they took out a stack of dwagons.)


    Somewhat to the contrary we have been shown that how close a unit is to leveling is something that is knowable. Wanda said the woman chosen to kill Ossomer was selected because she was "close to leveling". Now, maybe this is specific to Wanda and decrypted but we have no evidence either way.

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -12-03.jpg

    To clarify, Mikal was directly quoting Rob there. (Collected "Word of the Titans" found here and the quote in particular here)

    As far as predicting that Sylvia was closer to leveling than Ansom, we have no evidence that Sylvia did in fact level. It could be that Wanda (or possibly all commanding officers) can feel when one of their units is close without knowing just how close. Sort of like a blind person and a source of heat; they don't know how big the flame is, but they can tell when they're about to stick a hand in it.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:57 pm 
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    Shai_hulud wrote:
    drachefly wrote:
    And doubly especially if ships can have spells hung on them, not just city towers.
    Is that just speculation, or something that was actually discussed at Gencon or something?


    Total spec, based on medieval warships being essentially portable castles.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:59 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:

    As far as predicting that Sylvia was closer to leveling than Ansom, we have no evidence that Sylvia did in fact level. It could be that Wanda (or possibly all commanding officers) can feel when one of their units is close without knowing just how close. Sort of like a blind person and a source of heat; they don't know how big the flame is, but they can tell when they're about to stick a hand in it.


    Or maybe she just knows based on the fighting Sylvia's been doing. I mean, Wanda's been her commander this whole time. She knows just how many battles Sylvia's been in and what she did in them. Even if you don't have any sort of direct knowledge of the inner workings of leveling, after you've been around the block a while you can make guesses like "it takes about 3-4 big battles for a Warlord to go from level 3 to 4" or something like that. And Wanda's been leading combat troops for a long time. Maybe Sylvia just hadn't leveled in a while despite participating in some big battles, and so it seemed she was 'due' for a level soon.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:13 pm 
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    From a meta standpoint, we know there has to be some kind of numerical system for leveling. The numbers may vary a lot and make prediction very hard for even a Mathamancer, but there still has to be some kind of rhyme and reason to it. Therefore, we can assume that perhaps especially old and experienced commanders might have a general sense of how much time it takes for certain unit types to go from level x to level y, as is suggested above.

    So for example, let's say Wanda notices over many dozens of turns that Warlords who only engage in combat (don't train or manage cities or anything else) tend to level from 2 to 3 after 3 major battles. Thus she assumes that Sylvia, having fought 3 big battles, should be due for a level anytime soon. (All numbers totally made up). This "prediction" is very rough, and only works if the commander making it is very old and the subject of the prediction has been doing only 1 kind of activity (to cut out extraneous variables), but this explains how Wanda could say that without actually knowing.

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     Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:15 pm 
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    Or Wanda just used Predictamancy to determine that the outcome of her killing him would be her leveling. Wanda is a really bad example of what natural magic/powers people have.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:15 am 
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    Thank you for the info. This is from the LiaBF book?

    And it seems that Chiefs can have a lot a the rulers abilities, all the way up to being an effective Head of Government, with the Ruler as Head of State. They can give promotions (Parson promoting from garrison unit to field unit, and promoting hobgobwins to Heavy status) recruit members (Jillian (accepting a new caster into the side) and dismiss units (what A.V. Clubs former CW did to SPITE a ruler)

    It would appear that a Chief (warlord only, or chief casters also?) is more like a deputy ruler, than a space on a roster for you to fill in with the warlord with the highest bonus. Can a ruler limit the authority of a CW, or is like senior gov't jobs in the executive branch; where push comes to shove, the president cannot dictate how you do your job, only fire you if he is does not like what you are doing?

    So, what is the "headmaster" class? I was thinking it was someone with status in all 3 eyemancer disciplines (as both Issac and Victor are) but A.V. Club is also a tri-disipline caster (and all are Master class Thinkamancers)

    Bonus question. Issac is a master of 2 of 3 eyemaster disciplines. If he masters Foolamancy, does his class become something else?

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:46 am 
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    bpzinn wrote:
    It would appear that a Chief (warlord only, or chief casters also?) is more like a deputy ruler, than a space on a roster for you to fill in with the warlord with the highest bonus. Can a ruler limit the authority of a CW, or is like senior gov't jobs in the executive branch; where push comes to shove, the president cannot dictate how you do your job, only fire you if he is does not like what you are doing?
    Remember that in this case the president can also kill you with a thought. You also need to obey the president's orders unless you judge that the continuation of the side requires you to disobey. Otherwise it looks like the chief warlord can do almost anything.

    All we know about chief casters is that they take orders from their chief warlords and that they can give orders to other casters.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:42 am 
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    bpzinn wrote:
    So, what is the "headmaster" class? I was thinking it was someone with status in all 3 eyemancer disciplines (as both Issac and Victor are) but A.V. Club is also a tri-disipline caster (and all are Master class Thinkamancers)

    Bonus question. Issac is a master of 2 of 3 eyemaster disciplines. If he masters Foolamancy, does his class become something else?


    These are the things I'm really interested in.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:55 am 
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    Wait, wait, wait! They can multiclass? I thought a caster was of a particular discipline and all other spells were cast with reduced effectiveness and/or increased risk of failure? A properly used caster is very scary even with just a single discipline at his disposal; Isaac must be powerful indeed. Also, what happens when they link? Can they use all of their abilities? If so, a link could conceivably combine not just 2 displines (+Thinkamancy), but 6 or 8 (depending on whether the linking Thinkamancer can otherwise participate).

    Are other long-lived casters like this? For example, is Charlie capable of Hat Magic and Rhyme-o-mancy? Maybe that's why the spell on the scroll was in the form of a poem?

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:50 am 
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    bpzinn wrote:
    So, what is the "headmaster" class? I was thinking it was someone with status in all 3 eyemancer disciplines (as both Issac and Victor are) but A.V. Club is also a tri-disipline caster (and all are Master class Thinkamancers)

    Could require at least adept in one other and novice in the third. AV is only novice in the other two.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:55 am 
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    I think its like this:

    Level Class
    1-3 Novice
    4-6 Adept
    7-9 Master
    10-12 Headmaster/Grand Abby (different title for different classes/discipline of magic)
    13+ ???

    And I bet its much easier to learn other disciplines in the same Class as your primary discipline.


    All this information is from...
    http://erfworld.com/store/-It-s-Raining ... sue-2.html

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:45 pm 
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    That's definitely not it. There was a big question about when Sizemore would make Master class. If it were a level threshold, that question wouldn't have risen.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:04 pm 
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    drachefly wrote:
    That's definitely not it. There was a big question about when Sizemore would make Master class. If it were a level threshold, that question wouldn't have risen.


    Why not? We don't know Sizemore's level, Sizemore doesn't know when he is going to level, and Sizemore mentions that he thinks for the first time that he will reach masters class.

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -03-31.png

    "Between the volcano link-up and his three recent levels (two from traps and combat, one from all of the city rebuilding), Sizemore was now a greater Dirtamancer than he ever imagined he could become. He had not actually crossed the threshold to Master class, but that could happen any time a caster gained powerful new insight into his discipline or major class. The body analogy wasn't quite enough to push him past that mark; he was still missing something. But for the first time in his life, he felt pretty sure that he would get there."

    He specifically mentions leveling in the same thought process regarding becoming master class. If my chart is correct (not saying it is 100% of course) then Sizemore would have been level 3 when he started level 6 feeling near 7. Also he mentions "powerful new insight into his discipline of major class." which support what I said about it being easier to learn other disciplines in your class.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:21 pm 
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    Quote:
    He had not actually crossed the threshold to Master class, but that could happen any time a caster gained powerful new insight into his discipline or major class.


    Right there!

    If levelling were necessarily involved in this process at perfect 1:1 correspondence, this thought makes no sense. The levels are mentioned as other indicators of his progress.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:51 pm 
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    If the classes are tied to insight & understanding of a caster's discipline, that might explain why the only Headmasters on the list (Isaac, Roger) are Masters of their own discipline and Adept or better in one other.

    As we saw from Sizemore's narration, he gained a lot of insight into his discipline by being exposed to Wanda's Croakamancy and thinking about the Erf in a completely new way (ie As a body).

    It could be that in practicing outside their discipline and gaining insight in to these foreign skills, they understand how they tie into their OWN discipline and understand it better as well.
      Nothing - never tried / never succeeded
      Novice - can manage to do simple / basic things in this discipline
      Adept - sort of understands the how & why of what's behind a discipline
      Master - understands the nuances & subtleties of discipline
      ??? - understands how disciplines tie together

    I think that the tie-in between levels is more to do with practice, familiarity & experience, rather than anything to do with direct leveling up = new title.

    ... heh. Now I'd kind of like to see a high-level caster who's still just a Novice, because they only ever do ONE thing and never think about their craft. "Unbelievable amounts of juice and power in their attack... but only ONE attack they ever use."

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:40 pm 
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    It seems that would be most likely for a battle discipline like Shockamancers. Maybe a shockamancer that just spends his life being a cannon - he spearheads his side's troops, everyone screens for him, he blasts the enemy with lightning. Simple technique, and if your units have some sort of defensive abilities that make it impossible for the enemy to just take out the shockamancer, could be very effective. Would lead to the shockamancer leveling very quickly, since he'll be doing a lot of fighting, but also not leave him any time or need for contemplation of his discipline.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:08 pm 
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    Like most things in Erfworld I'm sure it is a combination of general mechanically bound guidelines, and mitigating factors. A level 6 Caster surely has a better chance of becoming a mastermind than a level 1 despite Sizemore saying "it can happen at anytime." In Erfworld the rules move things along but often don't seem to be the only thing determining what's actually going to happen. I'd consider the chart I put up a guideline at best but a reasonable one.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:16 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    Would lead to the shockamancer leveling very quickly, since he'll be doing a lot of fighting, but also not leave him any time or need for contemplation of his discipline.
    Surely that's underestimating the sophistication of Shockmancy! I'm sure their sophistication gets underestimated very often, but if you are frequently putting a Shockmancer in combat as a human cannon then his life depends upon gaining insights into his discipline.

    I can't imagine what a terror a Shockmancer must be on the battlefield, probably filling enemies with fear before killing them, and with a good chance of having some Croakamancy to back it up. I would really like to see that.

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     Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:38 pm 
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    Mikalyaran wrote:
    Like most things in Erfworld I'm sure it is a combination of general mechanically bound guidelines, and mitigating factors. A level 6 Caster surely has a better chance of becoming a mastermind than a level 1 despite Sizemore saying "it can happen at anytime." In Erfworld the rules move things along but often don't seem to be the only thing determining what's actually going to happen. I'd consider the chart I put up a guideline at best but a reasonable one.


    OK, fine by me.

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