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 Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:33 pm 
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New One is up.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:41 pm 
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    God damnit I just want her to die already!

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:55 pm 
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    Things do not look good for our heroes. Haffaton's doing, or Charlie's, or something more sinister?

    I really don't like Olive or the heroine buds. Not one little bit. The only solace is that neither Jillian nor Wanda have mentioned them in the "present," which seems to indicate they get over them. Eventually.

    Though there is the matter of the little pink flower that Wanda uses to accent her personal crest...

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:04 pm 
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    Someone is using dwagons to torch the heroine-plants in the garden,
    and the smoke from that causes hallucinations ?

    I didn't expect to see Stanley so soon :mrgreen:

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:09 pm 
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    Graaah. I like a trial as much as the next person, but Loj, a life-or-death battle situation is not the time to put experimental philosophy to the test!

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:12 pm 
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    Well, at least the disbanding question has been answered. Time to go claim some quatloos.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:12 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Still Xin's art

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:15 pm 
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    ShieldOfAthena wrote:
    God damnit I just want her to die already!
    yep that's what Jill has been saying!!!!


    Unsurprisingly, it turns out this time, Jillian was entirely right - when you've got someone like Olive in your grasp, you croak her ASAP instead of giving her a chance to escape.

    A quick resolution will be if at least one of the casters manages to resist the effects of the hero smoke. Perhaps Jack, since he described them as a form of Foolamancy, and so he'd be able to work around it. Perhaps Betsy the Healomancer can heal her mind.

    If Olive manages to get away, recapturing her could be very tough.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:41 pm 
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    ... this is going to be a Humperdink ending, isn't it?
    Quote:
    "Who gets Olive?"
    "I don't understand."
    "Who kills Olive Branch? At the end, somebody's got to do it! Is it Jack? Who?"
    "Nobody. Nobody kills her. She lives."
    "You mean she wins? Jesus, grand-pa, why did you read me this thing for?"
    "You know, you've been very sick, and you're taking this story very seriously. I think we'd better stop now."
    "No, I'm ok. I'm ok. Sit down. I'm all right."


    Faq is going to break Haffaton's inertia and escape, razing all her cities, but Olive will be left alive and alone, the only person in her perfect, flawless city, surrounded by her garden, and she'll never have the help or the shmuckers to do it again.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:04 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Faq is going to break Haffaton's inertia and escape, razing all her cities, but Olive will be left alive and alone, the only person in her perfect, flawless city, surrounded by her garden, and she'll never have the help or the shmuckers to do it again.
    Don't forget that some ruler of Haffaton needs to be killed by Jillian eventually. We don't know which ruler and we don't know when, but I doubt Jillian will leave Haffaton before fulfilling her destiny somehow.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:18 pm 
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    Yeah, so based on that we sort of know Jillian has to kill Olive - or, at least, Olive has to cede control of Haffaton to someone else.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:23 pm 
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    Banhammer thinks that even if her crimes are proven, she might still be redeemable? To be guilty of half of her crimes, she'd have to be a sociopath. Nothing short of brain surgery is going to fix that.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:23 pm 
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    Well, there's a few things to consider...

    1. We haven't heard the EXACT prediction, so Wanda's interpretation of "You are Fated to croak the Ruler of Haffaton" may be wrong (eg the actual prophecy might've been "A warlady that Wanda finds really important will send Haffaton's ruler on her way")
    2. Jillian may croak Olive through a slow, lingering death of being in charge of a side she can't maintain (loose interpretation, but hey! It's predictamancy. It's never definite. :p )
    3. Banhammer's mercy & Jillian's stubborn desire to fight Fate may lead to Jillian specifically NOT croaking Olive, which of course leads to the Fate-backlash that wipes out Faq at the hands of Stanley.

    Of course, I'm grasping for straws, but if it lets me say "Ha! I knew it!" later on... :D

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:31 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Banhammer's mercy & Jillian's stubborn desire to fight Fate may lead to Jillian specifically NOT croaking Olive, which of course leads to the Fate-backlash that wipes out Faq at the hands of Stanley.[/list]

    I doubt that one very much, because if Jillian manages to thwart fate in any way, Wanda wouldn't be the fate obsessed person she is. First one might be possible, and the second... well, it might not be quite so round-about. It might be that she gets killed as a direct result of her actions as opposed to putting a sword through her, but I doubt it would be nearly so drawn out. Also consider that Haffaton's position really hasn't changed to the rest of Erf, even if a bunch of cities get razed on FAQs way home, recapturing them should be quite possible.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:41 pm 
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    Ah, but consider; if Wanda sees Jillian defy Fate and spare Olive, she'll react at first by wailing about how this is just taking the Hard Way. She'll go back to Faq with them, mope around for many turns, then start to hope that Fate can be avoided when nothing happens. She'll get the "Attune to a 'Tool" prediction, figure it's safe to pursue, contact Stanley... and be the worse fate for Faq she'd been dreading the whole time. This throws her into a spiral of depression and fatalism, and the Wanda we know today.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:56 pm 
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    No one in particular wrote:
    Ah, but consider; if Wanda sees Jillian defy Fate and spare Olive, she'll react at first by wailing about how this is just taking the Hard Way. She'll go back to Faq with them, mope around for many turns, then start to hope that Fate can be avoided when nothing happens. She'll get the "Attune to a 'Tool" prediction, figure it's safe to pursue, contact Stanley... and be the worse fate for Faq she'd been dreading the whole time. This throws her into a spiral of depression and fatalism, and the Wanda we know today.



    That... doesn't make sense to me I think. If she gets her 'Attune to a Tool' prediction , why would she figure it's safe to pursue if she's seen Jillian escape her Fate? I just don't see the connection.

    I'd think it's the other way around - she's more likely to pursue the Tool if she feels that Fate is inevitable. Like, if she's seen what happens when people take the Hard Way, and she'll see Jillian fulfill her Fate. Then she gets a Fate of her own - she'll be raring to try to take the Easy Way and go for the Tool, thinking that if she sits back it'll be even worse for her.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:59 pm 
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    It seems like the Wanda of book 1 and 2 sees Fate as infallible and unavoidable. To me, it seems like it would make no sense for her to have lived through a case where Fate was avoided and still believe that.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:02 pm 
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    I had an idea while reading this latest update - if the heroine buds can cause mass hallucinations, some of the things we accept as historical fact may be incorrect.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:50 pm 
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    Beeskee wrote:
    I had an idea while reading this latest update - if the heroine buds can cause mass hallucinations, some of the things we accept as historical fact may be incorrect.

    Like what? The book isn't written from Jillian's point of view or anything (at least not directly) so it isn't as though this was all some big hallucination or something (and it would be a giant middle finger cop out). Instead of any history we know being wrong, I think it more likely that this might be the 'mind wipe' that some people have been thinking is coming to synch up this book with future events. Though it wouldn't make a ton of sense for Wanda or Jillian, since they're both fairly used to the Heroine buds.

    As with the other recent updates, still plenty of questions left to answer, and I think we won't get everything till the second to last page or so, with a fairly predictable wrap-up page at the end. And there might even be a few things left unsaid even then, but everything should line up properly.

    Edit: Not trying to sound hostile with that opening 'Like what?' just genuinely curious. Shame there isn't inflection in text.

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     Post Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:51 pm 
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    ftl wrote:
    No one in particular wrote:
    Ah, but consider; if Wanda sees Jillian defy Fate and spare Olive, she'll react at first by wailing about how this is just taking the Hard Way. She'll go back to Faq with them, mope around for many turns, then start to hope that Fate can be avoided when nothing happens. She'll get the "Attune to a 'Tool" prediction, figure it's safe to pursue, contact Stanley... and be the worse fate for Faq she'd been dreading the whole time. This throws her into a spiral of depression and fatalism, and the Wanda we know today.

    That... doesn't make sense to me I think. If she gets her 'Attune to a Tool' prediction , why would she figure it's safe to pursue if she's seen Jillian escape her Fate? I just don't see the connection.

    Because after seeing Jillian & Olive seemingly choose a new fate rather than the one Predicted for them, Wanda may feel that Fate is something that can be controlled. If you like your Fate, you can pursue it with the Titan's own blessing; if you object to it strong enough, you can forge your own path.

    ftl wrote:
    I'd think it's the other way around - she's more likely to pursue the Tool if she feels that Fate is inevitable. Like, if she's seen what happens when people take the Hard Way, and she'll see Jillian fulfill her Fate. Then she gets a Fate of her own - she'll be raring to try to take the Easy Way and go for the Tool, thinking that if she sits back it'll be even worse for her.

    ftl wrote:
    It seems like the Wanda of book 1 and 2 sees Fate as infallible and unavoidable. To me, it seems like it would make no sense for her to have lived through a case where Fate was avoided and still believe that.

    That's the thing though, Fate wasn't avoided, only delayed and worsened.

    Jillian doesn't croak Olive; Wanda goes to Faq and waits and waits and nothing happens; Wanda becomes a lapsed Fatalist, and thinks Fate can be controlled; Faq falls and Wanda blames herself for doubting Fate; Wanda becomes a born-again Fatalist, even more devout and extreme in her Fatalism than before.

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