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 Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:04 pm 
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moose o death wrote:
raphfrk wrote:
He should get a bonus when fighting against them at the very least. Also, a single touch with the hammer knocks out a dwagon for the rest of the turn. That is probably the hammer equivalent of the pliers insta-killing undead.

the pliers did NOT insta kill uncroaked.

they turned MOST uncroaked to dust

this heavily implies they are simply killing low level uncroaked easily. NOT that they are some croakamancy destroying tool. ansom was a lavel 10 royal, chief warlord with an artifact bonus. he killed most everything in one hit with the things.



Since we're trying to be specific, the uncroaked that were turned to dust, were, in fact, insta-killed.

MOD, maybe you really mean 'the pliers themselves do not insta-kill all uncroaked'.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:12 pm 
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    'Tools don't croak units. Units croak units.

    Sorry. Couldn't help it.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:50 pm 
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    OneHugeTuck wrote:
    moose o death wrote:
    raphfrk wrote:
    He should get a bonus when fighting against them at the very least. Also, a single touch with the hammer knocks out a dwagon for the rest of the turn. That is probably the hammer equivalent of the pliers insta-killing undead.

    the pliers did NOT insta kill uncroaked.

    they turned MOST uncroaked to dust

    this heavily implies they are simply killing low level uncroaked easily. NOT that they are some croakamancy destroying tool. ansom was a lavel 10 royal, chief warlord with an artifact bonus. he killed most everything in one hit with the things.



    Since we're trying to be specific, the uncroaked that were turned to dust, were, in fact, insta-killed.

    MOD, maybe you really mean 'the pliers themselves do not insta-kill all uncroaked'.


    When Ansom had the Arkenpliers, they would "turn most undead to dust." I'd call that an insta kill too.

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F022.jpg

    However, that's not all undead, so MoD is correct to say that the Arkenpliers may not insta-kill all undead, just most. We don't know the effect of Arkenpliers on decrypted units, should Wanda ever loose them, or what the fate of her decrypted units would be.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:00 pm 
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    i stand by what i said and will continue to say until the words "arkenpliers are a croakamancy artifact" are written by rob in a non sarcastic fashion. at which point i will adjust my other various opinions and theories to suit the new information.

    for now the ONE ability they have had for wanda is decrypt.
    stanley's tool has 4 abilities, taming dwagon's, rocking out, raining lightning, flying.

    that doesn't include popping pidgeons from walnuts.

    ansom is a very high level unit, and he had a large bonus to his combat from the unattuned arkentool. large enough to croak dwagons easily. if you look at those combat sequences he causes all sorts of effects on dwagons. dusting one uncroaked unit and stating his NON attuned arkentool turns MOST uncroaked to dust...when fighting a side with mostly uncroaked forces, doesn't mean the tool is a croakamncy artifact. attuning to wanda doesn't either. wanda is a croakmancer and is the reason ansom even had uncroaked to re croak.

    like i've said elsewhere the uncroaked probably get dusted if they are overkilled. inflict beyond -x health points in one strike is overkill, unit explodes, dismembers, is beyond regeneration/uncroak/decrypt. those cannon fodder uncroaked were hastily thrown together at best. one turn of uncroak isn't exactly built for wear and tear.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:17 am 
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    moose o death wrote:
    i stand by what i said and will continue to say until the words "arkenpliers are a croakamancy artifact" are written by rob in a non sarcastic fashion. at which point i will adjust my other various opinions and theories to suit the new information.


    Well, another option would be to see what happens when an attuned wielder is defeated.

    For example, if GK defeats Charlie and the captured dish attunes to Maggie, that would give a strong indication that the tools are magic type aligned.

    Quote:
    for now the ONE ability they have had for wanda is decrypt.
    stanley's tool has 4 abilities, taming dwagon's, rocking out, raining lightning, flying.

    that doesn't include popping pidgeons from walnuts.


    ... so 5 then :) ?

    The pliers might have additional abilities that Wanda can use. The pidgeons <-> nut conversion shows that even Stanley is learning new abilties.

    Quote:
    like i've said elsewhere the uncroaked probably get dusted if they are overkilled. inflict beyond -x health points in one strike is overkill, unit explodes, dismembers, is beyond regeneration/uncroak/decrypt. those cannon fodder uncroaked were hastily thrown together at best. one turn of uncroak isn't exactly built for wear and tear.


    It could be, but they do seem to be linked to croakamancy. Ofc, it could be a bait and switch.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:35 pm 
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    that's my point, wanda only knows of one that we've witnessed. they could also feature loyalty adjustment abilities NOT requiring decryption. switching someone's side without killing them could be better again. we don't know what other abilities she has...she may know and has no interest in their use as like her own abilities the tool has abilities outside of croakamnacy but she has no interest in those.

    i'm sure the tool itself really didn't matter to wanda, she originally plotted after stanley's tool, and after that plan failled i'm sure she tried attuning his arkentool when he wasn't looking. it clearly never worked. hell i'd even assume wanda directly asked if she could see the hammer for herself and stanley probably handed it too her.

    that tool either only attaches to stanley, or it has picked it's master and cannot unattach unless he's croaked. either way it's probably yet another reason stanley is so depressed now. he really did think the tools only attuned to him, and it's clear now that only the hammer does. if he and wanda swapped they wouldn't gain new abilities they'd both just have lifeless lumps of 3d art.

    OR they'd have the same abilities they had before if my personal belief is true. i still hold the opinion the tool is just a tuning rod for inert talents the unit possesses. and that they attune to unique units throughout the world that can be used to create a new erfworld.
    stanley: the piker who would be king
    wanda: the talented sorceress with a narrow mind
    sizemore: the untalented magician with an open mind
    charlie: the master of manipulation
    jillian: the barbarian queen

    we don't know enough about, but i suspect, vinny. i'm sure we will meet many new faces to fill out the rest of plausible roles

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:51 pm 
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    moose o death wrote:
    OR they'd have the same abilities they had before if my personal belief is true. i still hold the opinion the tool is just a tuning rod for inert talents the unit possesses. and that they attune to unique units throughout the world that can be used to create a new erfworld.


    It could be, but I don't really see a situation that would trigger the effect. The only way to see would be if a tool wielder is killed and someone else attunes to it.

    It could be that there are 8 units with the "can attune to an Arkentool" stat, but they could also be arkentool specific stats. If someone with the stat dies, then a there is a random chance that any new unit popped will have the stat, until there are 8 again.

    That ability could also count as a major bonus to the "fate" stat.

    Quote:
    stanley: the piker who would be king
    wanda: the talented sorceress with a narrow mind
    sizemore: the untalented magician with an open mind
    charlie: the master of manipulation
    jillian: the barbarian queen


    I wouldn't class Sizemore as untalented, he just isn't multi-talented, he seems pretty good at Dirtamancy.

    I think he has high odds of attuning and Jillian is lower.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:06 pm 
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    you have been watching jillian getting setup for a huge battle against wanda right? one level 9 royal against a level10 royal heir-chiefwarlord-decrypted-with arkentool bonus for being in the hex with the decrypter, is not a fair fight. then you add said decrypter in another hex. throw in some archon's and dwagons and you get an even more lopsided fight. jillian needs to balance the fight. and her rather unique worldview seems to be exactly what arkentools are attracted too.

    she's the ruler who doesn't want to rule. she's happiest in the thick of battle. she doesn't have a salad fork, she has an eyeball fork. her only motivation is to gain the army she needs to get the revenge she wants...she doesn't know yet her revenge will need to be redirected at something she's even more passionate about. when she see's what wanda has done to ansom. she's going to go nuts. not only was wanda controlling her before, but now jillians free, wanda is now controlling ansom..which if you recall is who she broke her bond to wanda over.

    jillian needs to attune an arkentool, given her status as the barbarian queen, i'm thinking turn control or much increased unit production.as the most useful effect.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:34 pm 
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    While you may be right about what Stanley was hoping would happen with the pliers, but he did know that someone else had already attuned to an arkentool: Charlie.

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:12 pm 
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    this i realise, but if my theory is right and wanda has unsuccessfully held the hammer before you can see he would imagine she is unable to attune to any tool.

    yet she has attuned the pliers and in all likelihood they would do nothing if HE grabbed them. it's that sudden realisation that the titans have plans for more than just him that's probably broken his spirit so badly. afterall charlie was just another side he would have to conquer prior to this. now charlie is another titanic mandate

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     Post subject: Re: Summer Update - 035
     Post Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:37 am 
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    moose o death wrote:
    this i realise, but if my theory is right and wanda has unsuccessfully held the hammer before you can see he would imagine she is unable to attune to any tool.

    yet she has attuned the pliers and in all likelihood they would do nothing if HE grabbed them. it's that sudden realisation that the titans have plans for more than just him that's probably broken his spirit so badly. afterall charlie was just another side he would have to conquer prior to this. now charlie is another titanic mandate


    That's a thought. I think what really chaps his saddle is that he's not needed, that he's become liability, in fact. He is "winning" without any of the fun or challenge. He's been made quite redundant, and the 'hammer has been made to look in many ways inferior to the 'plier's capacity to create entire armies.

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