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 Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 6:45 am 
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This user posted the comment of the month Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf This user got funny with a rodent This user is a Tool! Shiny Red Star Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins For when you need it most
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Calith wrote:
Can red expose an quick API so folks can just submit the number then we can just query it?


copperhamster wrote:
I was fooling around with a perl script that would grab the spreadsheet, parse it, flatten it out, shred it, put it back together, then come up with the best hands automagically. It was ugly as hell though and not very good.


The whole point of going back to submitting to the forums is to increase visibility in order to promote higher engagement. Having people submit a bunch of arbitrary card ids with no context would, unfortunately, be a step backward from that.

Automation presents a similar problem. Automation is directly opposed to engagement. In theory, we could almost completely automate everything past the point of submitting cards. But at that point, people won't be "taking part" as much and will feel less involved and invested in the outcome. They would much more quickly become bored of the whole thing.

Think about if Super Mario Brothers played itself. It might be fun to watch it beat a level or two... but then the novelty would wear off and you would wander off to find something more interesting to spend time on. Finding the right balance between involving the player and making the game tedious is something game designers have wrestled with since ancient times.

I do appreciate suggestions, mind you. I'm just explaining why we're doing some of this the "stupid/hard" way on purpose. Mind you this isn't new. It's something both Yshl and I have been keeping in mind since the first month we had the poker competition. I'm sure it was on team erfworld's minds even before that.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:44 am 
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    This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user got funny with a rodent Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf
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    I was just fooling around as a personal project, I never intended it to get to the point of fully usable. Think of it as doing a puzzle, but with code.

    Whateva ya wanna do is fine by me.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:02 pm 
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    Shiny Red Star IRC Quote of the Moment Has collected at least one unit Here for the 10th Anniversary Mined 4 Erf This user is a Tool! Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Won Mine4erf for the Marbits
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    On the whole involvement thing I support the idea that coming up with the answers is a part of the challenge and fullautomation rakes away from that.

    Also I'm a marbit and i bring more Red to the forums, because this is what the forums and Marbits need.

    (And yes i did the silly and awesome spreadsheet)


    05/19/2018
    Mined [44268]
    3
    Clubs
    Red

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:31 pm 
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    Nimelennar wrote:
    ripple wrote:
    I missed the part where we decided to change forms of "government" or "teaming" to a representative form....is this to drive posting back to the forum? I guess I don't understand why allowing folks to submit their cards themselves is Considered Harmful.


    This is what we were told:

    Red wrote:
    Incidentally I think it might be a good idea to keep posting cards to the thread, in addition to using the spreadsheet for ease of tracking. Not that I don't trust Nimelennar, but something could happen to the spreadsheet. Also keeping the new cards in sight here on the forums might help keep people talking and excited about the whole poker game.


    I don't want to ask people to submit their cards twice, hence keeping the form out of sight to avoid confusion.

    It's the same to me either way, though; whether one person is posting for everyone or everyone is posting for themselves, the form works the same. We just need to make it clear that the forum is going to be The Official Place to post cards again in June, like it was in April.

    The other option is to change the form to how I originally had it set up in the Beta, and require that people link back to their forum post, as it is the official record of the submitted cards.


    So, for May, are we submitting our cards here or via the spreadsheet? I've only mined 4 cards so far this month, anyway, but I don't think I've submitted any of them so far.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:33 pm 
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    Storel wrote:
    So, for May, are we submitting our cards here or via the spreadsheet? I've only mined 4 cards so far this month, anyway, but I don't think I've submitted any of them so far.


    Yes. Via this form. Or you can simply past them here and ask that they be submitted for you.

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 4:46 pm 
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    Okay, thanks!

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:09 pm 
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    The reason I wouldn't be too worried about discouraging the reporting of hands is that there appear to be very few people actually reporting them (that pair of twos was there for, like, a week, but I was waiting for the Marbits to report it), and I feel like I do a lot of the reporting for whatever team I'm on.

    Speaking of...

    ]8\ ]8\ ]8\ New Gobwin hands: ]8\ ]8\ ]8\

    Black hand: Sevens fill of Kings

    Quote:
    7♥ 30069 OpusFocus
    7♠ 30311 Calith
    7♦ 44205 ripple
    K♠ 44109 copperhamster
    K♣ 30277 Storel


    Red hand: Aces full of Jacks

    Quote:
    A♠ 29935 Wolfgangs246
    A♥ 30498 copperhamster
    A♦ 43896 dethmourne
    J♣ 30332 Calith
    J♦ 43994 Storel

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:12 pm 
    Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Marbits
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    Personally, I wouldn't mind automation, but I"m also the kind of person who automates things as a hobby. Anyway, 3 new cards today for Gobwins.

    Spoiler: show
    Collected Source Value Suit Deck

    05/19/2018

    Mined [44286]

    3

    Clubs

    Blue

    05/19/2018

    Mined [44282]

    Q

    Clubs

    Black

    05/19/2018

    Mined [44281]

    5

    Clubs

    Red

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:25 pm 
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    dethmourne wrote:
    Personally, I wouldn't mind automation, but I"m also the kind of person who automates things as a hobby. Anyway, 3 new cards today for Gobwins.

    Spoiler: show
    Collected Source Value Suit Deck

    05/19/2018

    Mined [44286]

    3

    Clubs

    Blue

    05/19/2018

    Mined [44282]

    Q

    Clubs

    Black

    05/19/2018

    Mined [44281]

    5

    Clubs

    Red


    ... And that gives us two more ]8\ ]8\ ]8\ New Gobwin hands: ]8\ ]8\ ]8\

    New Black hand: Queens full of Kings

    Quote:
    Q♥ 44214 Jaxad0127
    Q♦ 44246 ripple
    Q♣ 44282 dethmourne
    K♠ 44109 copperhamster
    K♣ 30277 Storel


    New Blue hand: Threes full of Aces

    Quote:
    3♦ 30055 Merilynne
    3♠ 30104 Yshl
    3♣ 44286 dethmourne
    A♦ 30361 ripple
    A♠ 30481 JadedDragoon

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     Post Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:57 pm 
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    Scoreboard updated.

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    Fear the would-be hero. For against the pangs of conscience, there is no more effective anesthesia than a righteous cause. And no one sees themselves as the villain, especially the villain.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:52 am 
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    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Ruler of Erfworld This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Won Mine4erf for the Marbits
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    Just submitted a bunch of cards for Marbits!

    Not a good selection tho, I fear that the Marbits won't be winning the Blue Xin card :cry:

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     Post Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:29 am 
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    Updated the scoreboard.

    With dmollas new cards, Marbits are upgraded to... a pair of eights in black. I literally can't type that without hearing a sad trombone in my head.

    Gobwins have upgraded to Kings Full of Queens in black. ::shrug::

    And despite trading out better cards in both blue and red, marbits still have no hand in either, due to only having two players in each. ::knees the imaginary trombone player in the groin and laughs at the funny sound he makes when he screams into the mouthpiece::

    ::tucks his sadistic streak back out of sight::

    So anyway, yeah. Been a bad month for marbits in poker. Marbits have stayed consistently only a few hundred points behind gobwins in the gem contest. But in poker? Marbits have all but been a no-show.

    And to think I wanted to be a Marbit this month. Then we could have three cards in the not-hands!! (wooo!)

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    Fear the would-be hero. For against the pangs of conscience, there is no more effective anesthesia than a righteous cause. And no one sees themselves as the villain, especially the villain.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:54 pm 
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    05/21/2018
    Mined [44366]
    9
    Diamonds
    Red

    05/17/2018
    Mined [44194]
    K
    Hearts
    Black

    05/17/2018
    Mined [44130]
    J
    Hearts
    Black

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     Post Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:22 pm 
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    E is for Erfworld Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Mined 4 Erf Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins Won Mine4erf for the Marbits For when you need it most
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    ...despite trading out better cards in both blue and red, marbits still have no hand in either, due to only having two players in each. ::knees the imaginary trombone player in the groin and laughs at the funny sound he makes when he screams into the mouthpiece::


    Huh? (Emphasis added).

    Some guy wrote in the rules, in the frist prost in thread the this:

    You Know Who wrote:
    Partial hands are valid as if they had kickers of no value. Two 3s and no other cards is still a pair of 3s, and would be beaten by even two 3s and a 2.


    The Marbits only needed one card from each deck to have a valid hand in that deck, and they've had that for over a week....what did I miss?

    Not saying that winning is likely no matter how many cards Digdoug gets unless some other <O> contribute, but I don't think this word "hand" means what you think it does....

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     Post Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:37 pm 
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    ripple wrote:
    JadedDragoon wrote:
    ...despite trading out better cards in both blue and red, marbits still have no hand in either, due to only having two players in each. ::knees the imaginary trombone player in the groin and laughs at the funny sound he makes when he screams into the mouthpiece::


    Huh? (Emphasis added).

    Some guy wrote in the rules, in the frist prost in thread the this:

    You Know Who wrote:
    Partial hands are valid as if they had kickers of no value. Two 3s and no other cards is still a pair of 3s, and would be beaten by even two 3s and a 2.


    The Marbits only needed one card from each deck to have a valid hand in that deck, and they've had that for over a week....what did I miss?

    Not saying that winning is likely no matter how many cards Digdoug gets unless some other <O> contribute, but I don't think this word "hand" means what you think it does....


    Ugh. I apparently missed that when he asked about it. I don't like it... but it's done.

    In actual poker (all the variants I'm familiar with including 5-card draw and hold'em) two cards do not make a hand. Five cards are needed to even play. Doesn't matter what they are... but if you don't have 5 cards, you don't have a hand. AAAA would be beaten by a 75432 "off-suit" (which I believe is the worst possible actual hand in poker). Allowing hands to be more or less than 5 cards does all sort of wacky stuff to the probability of getting a certain combination of cards and... and by extension... it changes the ranking of hands. At which point you're not playing poker anymore.

    But, for our purposes here... yes, those are valid hands. Apparently.

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     Post Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:47 pm 
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    To no one's surprise - I wasn't trying to play rules lawyer, but I thought we probably should follow the rules that were published early in the month even if they don't necessarily match Stupidworld normal expectations.

    e.g. I figured that there's still a very small chance that a scenario could come into play where the <O> only have cards from 4 unique players, but get 4 of a kind that could notionally beat a 5-card full house....

    Edited to add: I'm guessing that Red put that proviso in for the case where the first set of hands from both tribes were tied, and all those cards were thrown out, and suddenly there were fewer viable people+cards for the second comparison of hands. Probably didn't expect it would come into play on the initial comparison of hands for any deck.

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    Last edited by ripple on Mon May 21, 2018 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:50 pm 
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    ripple wrote:
    To no one's surprise - I wasn't trying to play rules lawyer, but I thought we probably should follow the rules that were published early in the month even if they don't necessarily match Stupidworld normal expectations.

    e.g. I figured that there's still a very small chance that a scenario could come into play where the <O> only have cards from 4 unique players, but get 4 of a kind that could notionally beat a 5-card full house....


    Yeah, I absolutely agree regarding playing rules as posted. I've updated the scoreboard to reflect the rule you pointed out.

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     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:56 am 
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    I would like to (begrudgingly) point out that the marbit black hand is just a pair of jacks and not two pair as is shown. Windscion is supplying two cards

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     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:02 am 
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    Cryptomancer wrote:
    I would like to (begrudgingly) point out that the marbit black hand is just a pair of jacks and not two pair as is shown. Windscion is supplying two cards


    Fixed.

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     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:58 am 
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    ]8\ ]8\ ]8\ New Gobwin hand: ]8\ ]8\ ]8\

    Black hand: Aces full of Kings:

    Quote:
    A♦ 30377 JadedDragoon
    A♣ 44207 ripple
    A♠ 44404 FordPrfct
    K♠ 44109 copperhamster
    K♣ 30277 Storel

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