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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:22 am 
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When I try to run it, after where I enter my username I get a notice that a file was quarantined. I tried restoring it, but my antivirus just moved it to quarantine again.

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:23 pm 
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    Lheticus, do you mind letting us know which anti-virus software that you use?

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     Post Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:53 pm 
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    I had this issue with BitDefender, but restoring the file worked for me.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:39 am 
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    I have BitDefender too, but my issue is that restoring a file from quarantine effectively makes it uneditable.

    Which means running mine4erf.bat again deletes internal.bat and then failes to extract the the new internal.bat. It asks for administrator priveleges, but granting them doesn't fix it.

    My temporary workaround is to make a copy of download.zip while the prompt is up, before it is automatically deleted. And then internally rename internal.bat and extract the contents of the zip-file and then restore the renamed bat-file from quarantine (since it is immediately put there) and then launch it directly.

    A process I beleive must be repeated everytime I wish to update mine4erf, until I figure out how to deal with this the more proper way.

    BD calls the threat in internal.bat "Gen:Heur.BZC.Boxter.222.10BA38CE" by the way.
    It doesn't seem to mind the executable though.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:49 am 
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    It's worth noting the "Gen:Heur" part of that "virus" name is referring to generic heuristics. That means the file isn't matching an actual virus signature but rather is matching a predictive algorithm intended to catch viruses in the wild before anyone knows about them. Virus signatures are made by storing a fingerprint of an actual virus that can be compared against. But heuristics attempt to guess what future viruses might look like. The "problem" with the latter is a significantly increased rate of false positives. It seems BitDefender contains a heuristic that triggers unnecessarily on (some) cryptocurrency mining apps.

    For anyone that might be interested, I use Avast. It's free and I've found it to be pretty effective. Switching AV products isn't something to be blasé about but it is an option. So far Avast has played nicely with mine4erf.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:00 am 
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    This stuff is all useful to know. I'm going to be trying to pursue things with the AV companies (reporting them as false positives and stuff) and seeing if I can get them to adjust- they often update their heuristics to exempt known perfectly fine software that they happen to match incidentally, but you have to spend some time bugging them about it.

    Thanks for the work on persuading BitDefender to let the miner run! I'll let you know if any progress happens on an easier workflow.

    If it helps, in general mining with an older miner (or even a completely different miner) keeps on working, the update work that's been going on is about making it work better and for more people. If you're already happy you probably don't need to worry about updates much.

    For now, you *might* want to edit mine4erf.bat to comment out the autoupdate stuff (put the word "REM " in front of those lines), and then you can use the autostart without it trying to update every time. I hope to have a better solution soon, though.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:07 am 
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    Just so you know which antiviruses also see it as bad:
    https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/5eec7 ... /detection

    Also, I guess, this is relevant to the topic, I'ld like to repeat something that might've been lost in the comments on the blog post.
    On the /mine4erf page, in the FAQ-ish section about anti-virus software, please change
    Quote:
    evil people sometimes try to hide miners in their stuff so they can get magic Internet points using their ensnared PCs
    to
    Quote:
    evil people sometimes try to hide miners in their stuff so they can earn money using their ensnared PCs

    Don't downplay this, please. Don't call this "magic Internet points". You yourselves are doing this as a revenue stream. So this passage feels very dishonest.

    P.S. still thinking if I should write a long reply to Rob's second blogpost, as I don't feel it addressed what I was talking about at all (as in – I wrote how anecdotal evidence of a single person's electric bill is going to be pointless and that's exactly what Rob did). Will probably do this in the "Is it worth it?" thread, if at all. Don't mind this P.S., I guess.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:40 am 
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    I'm sorry you feel that it's downplaying the financial side of things; obviously most things malware nowadays is up to is about money, and they've always been using their ensnared PCs to do so (usually by selling them as pawns for denial of service attacks and such I think), the new part that is why miners are being picked up is that they're doing so by doing a thing that makes Internet currency out of thin air given by no one specific and backed only by agreement from everyone using the currency to recognise the fabricated tokens, which struck me as very... 2018?

    "We live in the worst cyberpunk future" is a line I've heard and repeated myself before, and it's the darkly amusing feel I get when trying to describe this sort of thing.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:48 am 
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    On the non-anecdotal data thing, if you want a detailed calculation of electrical stuff you kind of have to get a kill-a-watt (or an off-brand clone), because it's really hard to get from PC components to exact electricity usage, and then look at your own electricity contract, and look at the current expected value per MH/s of mining. There aren't generally applicable numbers.

    That said, there's a reason that GPUs are in short supply, and it's not that mining with them is normally terrible value. It shifts around a whole bunch, so it's hard to give any kind of generally reliable answers here, but it normally varies from worth it to very worth it on decent enough GPUs to actually get shares at typical residential electricity prices, so you don't normally need them to make decisions here.

    If you're super into the technical side of things there are probably more technical sources on power usage available which do historic analysis for a lot of cards in a lot of machine configurations. It's probably a thing better served by looking at more technical sources than news posts, though, and better done by cryptocurrency-specific websites (especially in terms of keeping things up to date, having calculators that use the latest figures, etc), and today's an update day so not super for putting time into trying to assemble a technical summary somewhere on Erfworld.com.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:26 pm 
    IRC Quote of the Moment Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins
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    DukeBG wrote:
    Just so you know which antiviruses also see it as bad:
    https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/5eec7 ... /detection


    I took a look at that list, and it said the one I use--Avira--doesn't say it's a virus, but well, it is saying it's a virus. Specifically the "internal.exe" file. It names the threat as "PUA/CoinMiner". I hope this detail will help lead to a solution.

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:35 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter Mined 4 Erf Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins
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    Lheticus wrote:
    DukeBG wrote:
    Just so you know which antiviruses also see it as bad:
    https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/5eec7 ... /detection


    I took a look at that list, and it said the one I use--Avira--doesn't say it's a virus, but well, it is saying it's a virus. Specifically the "internal.exe" file. It names the threat as "PUA/CoinMiner". I hope this detail will help lead to a solution.

    It's technically not wrong, as internal.exe IS a coin miner. It's just one that you have authorized....

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     Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:44 pm 
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    Lheticus wrote:
    DukeBG wrote:
    Just so you know which antiviruses also see it as bad:
    https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/5eec7 ... /detection


    I took a look at that list, and it said the one I use--Avira--doesn't say it's a virus, but well, it is saying it's a virus. Specifically the "internal.exe" file. It names the threat as "PUA/CoinMiner". I hope this detail will help lead to a solution.


    "PUA" does not mean virus. PUA means Possibly Unwanted Application. Another antivirus might refer to these as PUPs or Possibly Unwanted Program.

    EDIT: In truth, actual computer viruses are practically unheard of in the wild these days. Too many separate measures have been taken to prevent their spread. And they aren't very profitable cause they aren't controllable after release. "Virus" has just become a catch-all word for a whole host of different kinds of malware. The important detail is that PUPs and PUAs are potentially unwanted. The virus software is supposed to leave it up to the user what to do once one is detected.

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     Post Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:24 am 
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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    EDIT: In truth, actual computer viruses are practically unheard of in the wild these days. Too many separate measures have been taken to prevent their spread. And they aren't very profitable cause they aren't controllable after release.

    Surprisingly bold statement that is completely untrue. Haven't heard of wannacry and petya?

    Re: JBeshir
    The wording in that paragraph I quoted has to change. Nothing you said in your post counters that. You're using this as a revenue stream. Doing it, but calling it "magical Internet points" in other context at the same time is dishonest.

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     Post Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:45 am 
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    I am not your unit, DukeBG! Go give an order to a cloud. If the cloud obeys you, I will.

    (Ahem)

    I'm sorry you feel that way, though.

    Edit: Not saying it won't change, any bit I wrote is kind of iffy because I'm not the wordsy person and it isn't a bad idea at all to get someone else to redraft things on the basis of feedback and feelings. Just, yeah, it's feedback. XD

    Edit: Anyways this is kind of a derailment from the Antivirus debugging stuff, I've nothing to report on that just yet but thank you everyone for the information so far!

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     Post Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:14 am 
    This user is a Tool! Mined 4 Erf Has collected at least one unit Won Mine4erf for the Gobwins
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    Knott wrote:
    I have BitDefender too, but my issue is that restoring a file from quarantine effectively makes it uneditable.

    Which means running mine4erf.bat again deletes internal.bat and then failes to extract the the new internal.bat. It asks for administrator priveleges, but granting them doesn't fix it.

    My temporary workaround is to make a copy of download.zip while the prompt is up, before it is automatically deleted. And then internally rename internal.bat and extract the contents of the zip-file and then restore the renamed bat-file from quarantine (since it is immediately put there) and then launch it directly.

    A process I beleive must be repeated everytime I wish to update mine4erf, until I figure out how to deal with this the more proper way.

    BD calls the threat in internal.bat "Gen:Heur.BZC.Boxter.222.10BA38CE" by the way.
    It doesn't seem to mind the executable though.


    I finally worked out this process early this morning, too (for BitDefender). The only difference is that I went into BitDefender setup and marked the folder containing the files as an exclusion zone. This alone doesn't allow the new version extraction to work, but you can copy & paste the download.zip file to a subfolder when BitDefender (via a Windows warning box (at least on Win 10)) warns you that the zip can't be extracted. Once you clear/cancel the warning box, BitDefender deletes the zip file.

    Then, you can open the zip file and manually copy the files out (in a subfolder of the excluded folder) and run it successfully. Like Knott, I'm still trying to figure out if I can tell BitDefender to ignore auto-download and extract processes that take place in a specific folder (or at all - I tried disabling *everything* and it still blocked it), so updating may become a manual process...

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