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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:35 am 
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You know how when you have a lot to do you'd rather not do it but do something different? Yeah.

I have an assignment due on Monday the 30th, but can't concentrate while I think about this stuff. So here's my draft rules for the game I want to run after Twibes of Erfworld finishes. I want to emphasisethe after part. I'm enjoying that game, and I think the players are as well. I want it to come to a satisfying conclusion.

Much of what is in these rules is lessons learnt from Twibes (and the other 8 Empire games I've run), and an awful lot of it is stolen directly from the New Erf ruleset by Kaed et al (particularly the 2.0 bits by Oberon), but with my own twist.

Like most of my games, the objective is playability less than comic-reality.

This thread is to discuss the rules, and have people point out obvious faults and errors (and not obvious ones as well).

Rules Doc

Hopefully that link works.

I would like to gauge interest in someone coming on board as a co-GM with me, so I can play and so can they. That might be hard. But if a reliable forumite is interested, so am I.

Thoughts / Comments / Feedback.

Benemala Edupad OCC

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:58 am 
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    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user is a Tool! Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    It seems like the game is on a much more massive scale then twibes. Do you plan it to be much more long-term, or faster paced?

    Couriers seem like they need a time investment to get good, but I wonder if that initial penalty they spring on the city they handle is a bit harsh.
    The rules also don't mention how long it takes units to level. So while we know how much exp that Courier is getting when it manages a city we don't actually know how much it takes to level. Several turns, or more, with half income seems pretty steep. We also don't have information on Courier stat increases per level like we do for the other unit types. Do they get better stats, level similar to a warlord, or some other method?

    Heirs seem incredible. That is a lot of points they get to spend. I think that honestly it might be a bit too much. I think it is a given, but as it is not mentioned I will ask, can you only have one at a time?

    Starting Rulers... not so much. Though I think I understand the reasoning against starting off with high powered rulers.

    Other then that it looks pretty good. I am tempted to jump in, though I have two classes starting (and others two ending) in two weeks and I am always a tad worried about how hectic new 300/400+ level (thankfully online) classes will be with my free time. So while I likely would be able to I am going to wait before I commit. See if they give early access to the syllabus soon.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:20 am 
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    What? Oh - good catch. The Courtier part is in error, from an earlier draft where level 1 cities only made 500S per turn. What it should say is that a governed city increases income by 5% for each level of the Courtier, so that number should be 1050S in the example.

    As to levelling - yes, that bit is still unclear from the 2.0 rules I stole/borrowed. I might delete much of that, since it becomes very complex to keep track of dozens of units indiidual experience. Maybe levelling happens by spending Schmuckers, and you gain XSchmuckers from performing certain tasks, which can only be spent levelling units.

    It would be amuch bigger game than twibes, and on a much longer playing time. I don't know if it would be faster paced. A lot of that depends on players and GMs having time to give orders and process.

    Benemala Edupad OCC

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:33 pm 
    Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
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    You know I'm interested :). I'm an Erfgame fiend.

    A few questions:

    Knights cost the same to pop as Stabbers, etc.?

    How exactly does Character popping work. can you pop a character as well as something else? Do you need Barracks for characters? If I want to pop a character, you first roll whether I get one or not, then roll whether it's a Warlord or Courtier, then if it's a Warlord, roll whether it's a Caster or not?

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     Post Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:40 pm 
    Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:52 am
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    He LT, I'd be willing to take a crack at co-GMing this. Idon't have much else to do as I'm not currently in any of the other games.

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     Post Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:19 pm 
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    A slightly revised version of the rules. In these situations, my motto is "Simplify, simplify, plagarise, simplify."

    Erfworld Empires X
    “Erflia Reborn”
    A play-by-post forum game presented by Lt. D. R. Grounds, and Mr Ronaldo Calliari, B.S.C., S.S.C..

    It happens every hundred turns or so. One of the Great Empires crosses from East to West, or West to East, attempting to destroy one of the other Great Empires. This is fine, and normal, and as it should be. It just seems a shame that they have to pass through Erflia, a region of hot and dusty deserts and rugged mountain ranges. Life in Erflia is hard enough without some great power or other making a regular trek.
    They wipe out everything, sack everything, pillage everything, and spend the Schmuckers on their Wars of Conquest. When the dust finally settles, the whole region is ravaged and laid waste. It takes dozens of turns for new sides to emerge and reclaim what was destroyed. Then those sides spend dozens of turns fighting amongst themselves, seeking to become the dominant power, and then one of the Great Empires decides it is time to attack the other Great Empire, and everything gets smacked down to rubble again.
    But not this time. This time, things are going to be different. You’ve learnt, see. Or at least, your ruler learnt. They saw this coming. This time, your side sent you, the heir, and a few choice units, and a whole heap of Schmuckers into hiding. The casters fled to the Magic Kingdom. This time, when the dust settles, you’ll still be here, ready to get a jump on the still-blinking-newly-popped-baby-sides that are only just getting started.
    This time, you’ll be able to conquer the whole region and be ready for the Great Empires with one of your own. You’ll be ruler of the whole of Erflia, and maybe, one turn, the whole Erf!

    Some things you’ll need to know:
    The Map:
    The top of the map is an uncrossable ocean. The bottom is an endless desert. East and West are bordered by powerful Empires. The bit in between is mostly sand and rock. And cactuses. But there are roads and some farms and mines and city sites as well.
    Movement Cost for Terrain Types:
    Roads – 1MP (2MP for flyers)
    Ordinary (desert, plains, grassland (ocean for water capable units)) – 2MP (2MP for flyers)
    Difficult (Cactus, Woods, Hills, Dunes) – 3MP (2MP for flyers)
    Very Difficult (Heavy Cactus, Mountains) – 5MP (2MP for flyers)
    Impossible Terrain (Heavy Mountains) – Cannot be entered by any unit.

    Level Cost to Upgrade Schmuckers Produced Structure Spots Max. Garrison Size
    ONE 1000 1000 5 15 units
    TWO 3000 1500 10 25 units
    THREE 3000 1500 15 35 units
    FOUR 3000 1500 20 50 units
    FIVE* 3000 1500 25 75 units
    *Only one city per side may be level 5.
    Possible Structures:
    Walls – defends against ground attack
    Towers – defends against air attack
    Dungeons – defends against subterranean attack
    Barracks – produce troops of one kind – special troops might require more than one barracks to produce a single unit
    Workshop – produce non-units (siege towers, boats, weapons, etc)
    Throne Room – Impress your friends and fiends!
    Portal Room – Gain access to the Magic Kingdom!

    Economic Structures
    There are various structures around the map that produce additional income. In order to produce income, the structure must be controlled, upgraded, and connected by road to one of your cities.
    Mines and Farms may be upgraded at a cost of 200S per turn. Max level 5. They produce 50S per level.
    Hunting Sites may be upgraded at a cost of 100S per turn. Max level 5. They produce 25S per level.

    Every side can produce a number of units. You choose the fluff and builds for each type of unit when you build the first barracks for that kind.

    A list of units your cities can pop follows. Base stats are in the form of: Hits/Combat/Defense/Move
    After the unit’s base stats are the specials of the unit, followed by its customization points and the upkeep per turn. Advanced units have a “+x” next to their upkeep. This is the amount their upkeep increase with each level beyond 1st.
    During creation every unit gets a number of points you can use to customize your units.
    ● Increase Hits by 1.5 for every point spent.
    ● Increase Move, Combat or Defense stats by 1 for every point spent.
    ● Some units can gain specials by spending points
    ● A unit with>15 hits is always “heavy”, but doesn’t gain additional benefit from it.
    ● Garrison Units are popped with 0 move, but can be promoted to Field to gain Move. Garrison units cost half as much to maintain, but only a certain number of units can be Garrisoned in a City. It costs twice normal maintenance to promote a unit to Field status (so a Garrison Stabber can be promoted to Field for 40S)

    Unit Templates
    Infantry – One Barracks to Pop One Unit
    Stabber - (5/3/1/6)+4 (20)
    Piker - (7/2/3/6)+4 (20)
    Archer - (5/5/1/6, ranged) (20)
    Scout - (3/0/0/10/ scout) (30)
    The “scout” special gives very limited thinkamancy.

    Knight - (10/3/3/6/rider)+14 (40)
    They may buy a single Simple special.

    Special Units
    Special units are divided into two classes, Knight (humanoid) and Beast (animal). Knights cannot be Mounts and Beasts cannot be Riders.
    Two Barracks Turns to Pop 1 Unit:
    Special A/B - (8/2/2/6)+12 (40)

    Three Barracks Turns to Pop 1 Unit:
    Special C - (12/3/3/4)+18 (100)

    Five Barracks Turns to Pop 1 Unit:
    Special D - (16/4/4/4/heavy)+26 (200)

    Naval Units
    Naval units have an extra stat after move, cargo. A unit can hold an amount of light units equal to it’s cargo & heavy units equal to half of it’s cargo. Ships can only take ranged for a special. Naval Units are built by Workshops in Water Adjacent Cities.
    One Workshop Turn:
    Sloop - (6/2/2/12/8/water-capable)+5 (60)
    Good for little more than carrying units.
    Two Workshop Turns:
    Galley - (8/3/3/8/16/water-capable)+10 (90)
    A moderately powerful ship which can be used effectively in naval combat.
    Four Workshop Turns:
    Galleon - (10/5/5/8/30/water-capable)+20 (130)
    Very powerful, doubling as battleships and huge troop carriers.

    Character Units
    Units need a Character Present to act ‘intelligently’. Stacks without Characters present will continue to follow their previous turn’s orders until they receive a direct order from a Character.

    Characters may only be popped in your Capital.
    It costs 100S per turn to try and Pop a Character. There is no guarantee that a unit will pop (the more Characters your side has, the lower the chance). Your Character might be:
    A Courtier - (6/0/0/5) (25)
    Command units responsible for supervising cities and maintaining “domestic” affairs, as well as Ambassadors to Foreign Powers. Technically a Command Unit that can provide some intelligent reactions in the field.
    A Warlord - (10/4+1d4/4+1d4/5/leadership, rider) (100)
    Command units that form the strategic backbone of a side. Above and beyond simply having Leadership, they have strategic thinking skills and can independently plan and carry out campaigns or critical large-scale battles. Warlords can perform courtier tasks but will not gain experience from them. A warlord has a 5% chance of being popped with a Simple Special or Dance-fighting.
    A Caster - (6/3/3/6/caster) (250)
    Command units capable of using magic. More on casters later… maybe.

    You Might Deliberately choose to pop an Heir for 1000S.
    Heir (Designate) - (10/4+1d4/4+1d4/6/leadership, rider) (500)
    A Command unit that will become the Ruler if the current one is croaked. Such title may be popped (an Heir) or bestowed upon an existing Command unit (an Heir Designate). If popped this unit has a 20% chance to get a Special as Warlords do. Promoting a unit increases its upkeep by 400 schmuckers, and does not change stats. Stats do not change when such a unit becomes Ruler.
    Your side must have a ruler to exist.
    Ruler: - (10/8/8/6/rider, leadership) (0+0/lvl)
    A Ruler holds absolute authority over a side. Through natural thinkamancy they know the status of every unit on their side, and can issue very simple orders to units anywhere. The Ruler sets all cities’ production, and has final authority to End Turn. They also have the ability to disband their own units at any time, except when a unit is captured by the enemy.

    There are 3 kinds of specials, simple, complex and D-class. Knights and all Special Units may buy Simple specials, only Special Units may buy Complex specials, and D-Class specials are reserved for D-units.
    Flight - (2) Allows the unit to pass through terrain without getting movement penalties. These units cannot be attacked by melee infantry without flight or ranged unless they engage them in melee.
    Ranged - (2) (6 for Flyers) Allows the unit to make ranged attacks making them able to hit units that normal troops are not able to hit (such as flying units, units on walls, etc).
    Toxin - (2) Whenever this unit deals damage to a stack that stack takes damage equal to ½ of the unit’s combat.
    Siege - (2) Allows the unit to attack walls.
    Healer - (2) Once per day, the unit can restore 1 hit/level to another unit
    Frightening - (3) Enemy units in the engaged stack lose leadership bonuses equal to the highest level frightening unit in the engaging stack.
    Jinn Stealth - (3) If the unit ends turn with full move, it becomes veiled until it attacks or leaves the hex.

    2 Points
    Mount - Allows up to 1+(hits/10) light units to mount this unit. If they do not have the rider special they take a -4 penalty to combat.
    Rider - Allows the unit to ride units with the mount special without taking a -4 penalty to combat.
    (Terrain) Capability - A unit with terrain capability does not receive penalties from it’s chosen terrain. It also gives the unit a 50% bonus in combat while attacking or defense while defending.
    Speed Boost - The unit gains +6 to Move. This special can be purchased multiple times.
    Track - Natural Findamancy that allows the unit to follow ground units

    3 Points
    Fabrication - Unit can create simple items in the field – ladders, ropes, etc. Could be used to build Naval Units, etc.
    Burrowing - Burrowing units can move underground, avoiding attack and terrain pentalties. A burrowed unit cannot attack, but can unburrow at will to surprise attack units.
    Gust - Once per combat, the target stack cannot engage in melee
    Homeguard - The unit cannot leave the city it is created/popped in, but gains an additional bonus equal to the level of the city.

    4 Points
    Dance-fighting - The unit gets a +4 bonus to combat. With leadership this can be applied to all led units in the same stack.
    Leadership - All units in the stack gain a bonus equal to the leader’s level. A unit with leadership can command other units as a Warlord would, but lacks the sophisticated understanding of large-scale strategy that Warlords have.
    Packmind - Units with this special grant a leadership bonus equal to the number of Packmind units in the stack. Units must all be of the same type to benefit.
    Sour Spit - Once per combat, the target unit suffers -2 to combat and defense for the rest of the turn.
    Score! - When the unit’s stack scores a crit or croaks an enemy, the unit gains a cumulative +1 Leadership bonus.
    Meatshield - Units riding this unit use it’s defense score in place of their own (Prerequisite: Mount)
    Battlecrap - CRAP! While flying, the unit may double their base attack while attacking ground targets. (Prerequisite: Flying)
    Footbiter - The unit may double its base attack bonus when surprise attacking ground units while burrowing. (Prerequisite: Burrowing)
    Earthshaker - While on the ground, the unit may double its base attack bonus when attacking other grounded units. (Prerequisite: Sonic Breath)
    5 Points
    Heavy - Unit gains +5/+3+3/+0 and cannot ride Mounts
    6 Points
    Simple mancy - Grants the unit the ability to cast from a discipline as a level 1 caster, with any passive qualities as long as the unit has Juice remaining. Units with this special gain 5% of their expended juice as experience. The amount of juice/turn depends on the unit type:
    ● A/B: 10
    ● C: 20
    ● D: 30

    Speed Boost+ - (4) The unit gains +16 to Move. This is special can be purchased many times.
    Breath weapon - (4-6) The breath weapon gives the unit a bonus to its combat. This does not count as a ranged attack unless the unit also buys the ranged special.
    Fire - (6) Breath a stream of fiery doom over your enemies. The unit gets a +8 bonus to combat.
    Lightning - (6) Breath a line of lightning (shocking :o). The unit gets a +8 bonus to combat.
    Sonic - (6) Blast your enemy with soundwaves. The unit gets a +6 bonus to combat and the free siege special.
    Acid - (4) -3 to target stack combat and defense stat during combat.
    Smoke - (4) Target stack cannot give or receive leadership bonuses.
    Bubble - (4) Target unit is immobilized until the start of its next turn.
    Tactical Special - The unit has a multiple specials it may learn as it levels. These specials cost half the normal amount, and the unit begins knowing one randomly chosen special from the list. Each time the unit levels, there is a 50% chance it gains an additional special. If the unit learns multiple Simple-mancies, it has separate juice pools for each school.

    Unique Unit Abilities
    Promote to Heavy (100S)
    ● Unit gains +5/+3/+3/+0 and cannot ride Mounts

    ● Promote basic Infantry for 100S
    ● Unit gains the specials of a Knight, and an increase in stats equal to half the points spent designing the “on-pop” Knights.

    Promote to Warlord
    ● Promote any infantry for 500S
    ● Gains Leadership and increases Loyalty

    Chief Warlord (1 per side)
    ● Appointed for 500S
    ● Greatly increases Loyalty
    ● Increases Leadership score by 2
    ● Provides 30% of Leadership Score to all units on the side, and an extra 50% to those in the same hex.
    ● May End Turn

    Heir Designate (1 per side)
    ● Appointed for 1500S
    ● Greatly increases Loyalty

    Will be ignored except in exceptional circumstances.

    Movement & Scouting
    All Movement “rounds down”, meaning a unit must have the full Move required to enter a hex. So if for example a unit with 2 Move left attempts to enter a Mountain hex, they fail. Regardless of terrain type, units treat their own city hexes as having a Move cost of 1. This benefit extends to allied units.

    Scouting is an important part of maintaining your side:
    ● Scouts reveal the hex they are in, as well as all adjacent hexes. Once a hex is revealed, a side will continue to see what happens in that hex – although no details of units.
    ● Scouts will always see the terrain type, structures, or other upgrades in adjacent hexes, and spot units in adjacent hexes, but can only count number of stacks and note the presence or absence of leadership in said stacks.
    ● Scouts have a Thinkamancy range of 6 hexes within which they can communicate with Command units.
    ● May "relay" information through other Scouts within their range.

    No unit may move into an unrevealed hex. I know, I know, you’re all like “what? No way!” Well too bad, hypothetical objectionist. That’s the way it is.
    Only scouts can reveal hexes. You need a scout on a naval unit to reveal hidden water hexes.
    Number of Units per Hex:
    A maximum of 75 units may be in a single hex. A maximum of 16 units may be in a stack. A maximum of 5 stacks may be in a hex. Unless specified by the player, stacks will form to maximum (and with random assortment).
    A stack with up to 8 units will gain an additional attack for each unit in the stack.

    So, you want to play?

    Good for you.

    Name your side, give some appropriate descriptions, and choose a representative colour.
    You are a ruler unit. Name your ruler.
    You have a warlord. Name your warlord.
    You have 10 Stabbers, 3 Scouts, and 10 Archers. Name and design your units.
    You have 2 Special “A” class beasts. Name and design your units.
    You have a Treasury of 4000S (You and your Warlord each carry a purse with 2000S).
    Pick a number between 1 and 100.
    Did you decide to hide out near the coast, near the mountains, or near the deep desert?

    Benemala Edupad OCC

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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:48 pm 
    Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:04 am
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    Okay I definitely find this game interesting

    Some questions/comments on the rules

    Bubble Breath: Does the immobilize happen on each attack? Like each time they attack they deal damage and select a target an immobilize it? Also what is immobilize? Does the unit become just unable to do anything until their next turn?

    Is leadership + to defense and attack or just one? It doesn't say

    How does combat work? Is the GM just going to handle it? Is it just Offensive's stack's attack - defensive Stack's defense = hit point damage?

    How exactly does surprising an enemy work in Burrow? Do they get a free round of combat?

    Can you promote any unit to heavy or just infantry?

    How do walls, towers and the like work? Do you spend a number of structure points to get say a 15 point barrack? And then you can pop 3 Special D's a turn? What does a 15 point dungeon or wall mean?

    Certain cities have a limited garrison amount, is that the maximum number of units that can be in the hex or the maximum units that can be defended by the walls of the city?

    The maximum number of units in a hex, what happens if one player has the maximum number of units (80) and just has their units sit their. Can enemies not enter the hex? Or is that maximum for both each individual side.

    How does burrowing and scouts work? You can't enter a non revealed hex but scouts can't burrow. So can a burrowed stack not move anywhere unless they have a scout continuously showing them the path?

    Also I think Knights right now are massively overpowered. Consider the difference of a knight and a C unit. Popping time the knight is 3 times faster, its more than half as expensive and its pretty close to the same strength. It doesn't have specials but still I think they should take 2 turns to pop and increase their upkeep to 60-70.

    Last edited by Silvan on Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:46 pm 
    Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
    Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:17 am
    Posts: 944
    As sure as I am someone will look through and find an awesome combination in these rules, I am interested in playing. Please poke me when you are ready for submissions.

    Prehendo Victoria - My first erfworld story. Comment thread

    Last Updated 12/15/2017

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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:17 am 
    Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
    Posts: 572

    Last edited by GWvsJohn on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:57 pm 
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    I am not accepting applications at the moment. I'm still GM'ing "Twibes of Erfworld" - I have four players with over 20 turns invested each, and we're still a little way off an exciting conclusion. And I still have lots to learn before attempting a "Grander Scale" Erf Game.

    I'm looking for feedback and error spotting, as well as suggestions for streamlining - the comment about Knights was very helpful - I'll look into this some more.


    Benemala Edupad OCC

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     Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:40 pm 
    Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:04 am
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    Do you have a rough time estimate on which the game will be open? I don't check the forums all that much and would hate to miss this.

    Also another rules thing is that you might want to change how much cities cost and how much they produce. You shouldn't have level 1 cities cost 1000 and produce 1000 smuckers. Otherwise you get situations like this.
    Turn 1: Player 1 Builds 4 level 1 cities.
    Turn 2: Player 1 Builds 4 level 1 cities.
    Turn 3: Player 1 Builds 8 level 1 cities.
    Turn 4: Player 1 Builds 16 level 1 cities.
    Turn 5: Player 1 Builds 32 level 1 cities.
    etc etc. Any particular reason you didn't go with the standard city cost and smucker production?

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     Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:09 pm 
    Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:52 pm
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    Last edited by GWvsJohn on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:21 pm 
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    Correct. There are only so many city sites on the map.

    I can PM people who register to play - you should ensure that you get an email notification when you get a PM.


    Benemala Edupad OCC

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     Post Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:13 pm 
    Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:04 am
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    Ah got it, I missed that part about limited city sites.

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