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 Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:08 pm 
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MarbitChow wrote:
If I ever get around to coding this as a computer game, I'll keep that in mind. Until then, since I have to do this all by hand, I'll do it this way.

Fine then. Just get rid of the initial Spot Check, but make Spot Checks in general easier.


BLANDCorporatio wrote:
No I wouldn't ;)

Spoiler: show
Persian Empire, the rise of the Qin Dynasty, Alexander the Great, Roman Empire, Arab Empire, Ghenghis Khan and later Timur Leng, and certain campaigns in WW2 for starters

You forgot the Wars of the Roses, the 100 Year's War, the Empire of Friedrich the Great, the Crusades, and of course Napoleon. :D

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:31 pm 
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    To get things more organized (for this and future attacks), I think we should set up some semi-permanent Squad assignments.

    Here's what we have right now:

    7 Casters:
    Spoiler: show
    Coil
    Bill
    Triage
    Vinny
    Nemo
    Fort
    Junetta

    11 Command Units (units with Leadership/Paragon)
    Spoiler: show
    Leadership:
    Yuri
    Wanderus
    Rudy
    Regus
    Sto
    3x Lvl. 2 Warriors

    Paragon:
    Rolf
    Will

    Both:
    Tod

    2 Fliers:
    Spoiler: show
    Cupid
    1x Lvl. 2 Dark Flier

    7 Archers:
    Spoiler: show
    Anex
    6x Lvl. 1 Archers

    4 Heavies:
    Spoiler: show
    Donovan
    3x Warriors

    6 Bodyguards:
    Spoiler: show
    Brick Wall
    2x Lvl. 3 Warriors ("Royal Guards")
    3x Lvl 2 Warriors

    6 Warriors:
    Spoiler: show
    Zed-Too
    2x Lvl. 2 Warriors (w/1 AP banked)
    3x Lvl. 2 Warriors (w/3 AP banked)

    8 Spearmen:
    Spoiler: show
    4x Lvl. 2 Spearmen (w/1 AP banked)
    4x Lvl. 2 Spearmen (w/3 AP banked)

    7 Mounts:
    Spoiler: show
    Mellisa
    6x Lvl. 2 Naughty Kitties

    9 Others:
    Spoiler: show
    2x Heck Pups
    2x Alt Elves
    4x Brickbats
    1x Balrug

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    Last edited by Nnelg on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:36 pm 
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    Exate wrote:
    Is this just "if you have at least one unit with Fabrication, you can have as much of any of the equipment list as you want"?
    Within reason, yeah. Some items (like the cart) might take more than one unit, or take more than 1 turn if you only have 1 unit, but otherwise, you'll get what you want.

    If you try to do something stupid like "flood the field eight feet deep with mining picks", I'll veto that.

    I'll probably also make it a requirement that, in order for a dollamancer to craft more than one doll a turn, he'll need a dedicated artisan for each additional doll after the first.

    Exate wrote:
    "Tell direction of coming and is of course giving coordinates- perhaps also each side is showing maps for strategy? Breathairia knowing of city locations already, neither is needing hiding. And speakings of wanting gifts for offering peace is sounding better in pointy ears every turn... unless elf king is making crushing of Tenebris work. So Queen is, perhaps, needing to keep talkings going for getting of fancy Breathing presents, and is knowing that keeping from peace for lengths is best, yes? And then once Ix has enough of tiny presents and wants true prize, Tenebris and Ix will make with other crushings."
    The Queen chuckles. "Indeed. We started the demands with the return of all cities, plus 100,000 shmuckers in reparations. We'll argue for several turns I'm sure, bickering back and forth until some 'reasonable' compromise is made. The problem as I see it, though, is that even while bickering, we're still in cease-fire, so the elves are getting what they want.

    "As to maps, we could probably provide you with a decent amount of information on the elven cities to the East of Breatheairia, but the ones we know best are the ones furthest from their capital. Discuss the matter with my envoy when she arrives.

    "Now, Yuri, I hope you'll indulge me. We Ixians have a fondness for games and tests, and there's one in particular I'd like to pose to you. We call it the Bene Guess-it Rite. There are many variations, but the one I challenge you with is this: I'm thinking of an amount of shmuckers that I would be willing to freely give to your side. I'll allow you to make a single request for any amount of shmuckers. If your request is 'close' to mine, I'll grant you whichever value is higher - yours or mine. However, request a value that is too high, or too low, and you gain nothing. I cannot even tell you what constitutes "close", since that already conveys information about the value to a clever one such as yourself. What number you choose will tell me much about you. How you choose that number, if you wish to share your thoughts, will tell me even more." She smiles, and folds her arms. "What is your response?"

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:18 pm 
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    Well, some squads are plainly obvious.

    Yuri, Rolf, Donovan, and the 3 extra Heavies should form our main Sturm Squad. The extra two slots can be filled based on what's needed. (Like maybe the Alt Elves or a couple golems.)

    We've got a Squad of Archers led by Will and Rudy, although there's an odd man out. Maybe Anex could join the mercenaries; we'll have to ask Werebiscuit.

    Vinny should put together a Squad of Golems, with the exact composition left up to him. Since he'll be leading it into melee, he might want to grab one of the flesh-and-blood bodyguards... As might Bill as well.

    We'll probably be wanting to form some squads around Regus, Sto, Wandereus and each of the three Warriors that have Leadership... Eventually. And we'll have to figure out what to do with the rest of the Casters, as well.



    For now, I have a proposition. I think Tod and 3 of the Spearmen that have 3 AP banked (or perhaps just 4 Spearmen) should take 4 of the Naughty Kitties should form a Squad of Lancers.

    If the mounts ridden by the Spearmen take Imprinted, (not Tod's; he might be upgrading to Bad Ass later) and put all their stats into Defence, they'll have 9 Combat and 19 Defense before Leadership modifiers. And the Spearmen will have 11 Combat if they put all their stats into it and take Well-Armed. If Tod leads them, the NKs will have effective 13 Combat and 23 Defense, and the Spearmen 17 Combat (including Dance-Fighting). If the Squad is led by a random level 2 with Leadership instead, the NKs will have 11 Combat / 21 Defense, the Spearmen 15 Combat (including Dance-Fighting).

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:01 pm 
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    Random Bless on Yuri

    Also you're forgeting the Mercenary's.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:13 pm 
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    The Mercenaries can organize themselves however they want.

    Although...


    Anyone who wants to be a Merc for a while should say so now, so that we can plan these Squad arrangements accordingly. I expect them to be a fairly permanent logistical framework. (As in, we'll switch things around as needed, but we're not going to empty it back into one big pot again anytime soon.)


    EDIT:
    In fact, it would be nice if Marbit could organize the Reference section for general units by Squad, once we agree on the assignments. It'll help keep things organized in the future.

    We could even give them individual nicknames, for ease of reference. :D

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:54 pm 
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    Tohmas is going merc, but ruddy will be happy to stack with the other archers.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:17 pm 
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    I think we should go ahead and set a timetable now:
    Spoiler: show
    Turn 10-11: Tenebris pops Imps. Balrug flies to Tenebris (if it isn't there already).

    Turn 12: The New Batch will arrive in Tenebris. Nemo, Fort, and Sto (and possibly one more Unit) get a ride on the Balrug to Dis City. Tenebris pops Towers, which are dispatched (with gobwins) to Dis City (ETA Turn 20). Sto pops 4 Gobwin Artisans at Dis City to assist Vinny.

    Turn 13: Tenebris starts popping a Dark Archon. Tenebris gobwins pop soldiers to serve under Regus' command. Regus' Company (including Melissa) embarks for Logan's Run (ETA Turn 20). Balrug returns to Tenebris.

    Turn 14: Tenebris Gobwins pop 4 level 1 Spearmen/Warriors to serve under Sto. Balrug shuttles them out to Dis City.

    Turn 15: Army at Dis City embarks for Logan's Run (ETA Turn 20).

    Turn 16: Tenebris completes Dark Archon. Dark Archon attempts to catch up with the column by flying to Logan's Run via Dis City (ETA Turn 19).

    Turns 17-18: Tenebris pops Merc PCs, whom are sent out on their mission.

    Turn 19: Dark Archon joins the main army.

    Turn 20: Towers arrive in Dis City. Regus' Company links up with the rest of our Battalion, and the Assault on Logan's Run begins.


    There. Does anyone have any problems with attacking on Turn 20? If we agree now to stick to these embarkation times, at least, then the rest of the planning will go a lot smoother.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:12 pm 
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    So the towers get to Dis City the turn we attack Logan's Run? I sense a problem. We have no siege with that group.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:34 pm 
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    Re: Merc PCs - All Merc PCs are assumed to already be stationed at Tenebris, having popped many turns ago. (Tenebris currently has a vague "6000 shmuckers worth of upkeep" estimate, which covers the defense of the capital, and accounts for a whole lot of units that are currently not involved in the story.) Just like the members of The New Batch, there is no need to explicitly pop the up-coming mercenaries.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:09 pm 
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    Here's my proposal for unit organization:

    Tod's Battalion:
    Spoiler: show
    Command Section:
    Tod
    Coil
    Triage
    Nemo
    Fort
    Melissa
    2x Naughty Kitty
    +'Attached' Brickbats
    +'Attached' Bodyguards
    +Leader for 'Attached' Bodyguards

    Squad Schwerpunkt:
    Yuri
    Rolf
    Donovan
    3x Heavies
    Brick Wall
    Alt Elf (for healing)

    Tenebrisian Cossacks:
    1x Wandereus
    3x Spearmen
    4x Naughty Kitties

    Vinny's Golems:
    Vinny
    7x Cloth Golems

    Bomber Squad:
    Bomb-o-Lanterns

    Bill's Horde:
    Bill
    +'Attached' Brickbats
    Uncroaked

    Archer Section:
    Will
    Rudy
    6x Archers

    Sto's Squad:
    Sto
    7x Gobwins

    Air Patrol:
    Cupid
    Dark Archon
    6x Dark Fliers

    Non-Combat Personnel:
    4x Gobwin Artisans


    Regus' Company:
    Spoiler: show
    First Squad:
    Regus
    Zed-Too
    6x Gobwins

    Second Squad:
    Anex
    7x Gobwin Archers (Possibly one Spearman with Leadership)


    There. I think that's more than enough to take the city. Any unit not on this list would be left to defend Dis City. (We don't need them, and there's no need to dilute the Exp gain more than necessary.)

    WhirdCheese wrote:
    So the towers get to Dis City the turn we attack Logan's Run? I sense a problem. We have no siege with that group.

    Yes we do. We have Coil, and we can bring Mining Picks. That gate has 40 SP max, so that's all we need. The towers are for the attack on Scarlet Hills or Rainbow Springs, whichever we're going to take next.

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:18 pm 
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    No casters are getting stacked?

    Other than Vinny and Bill?

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     Post Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:26 pm 
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    WhirdCheese wrote:
    No casters are getting stacked?

    Other than Vinny and Bill?

    Vinny and Bill are the only casters who have a good reason to be stacked with other units (Vinny gives a bonus to Cloth Golems, and Bill to Uncroaked), so the rest of the casters are going in one stack with Tod.

    Or Wandereus, if Tod wishes to play a more active role in the battle than babysitting the casters. :P
    (Tod would be a better leader for the "Cossacks"...)


    EDIT:
    If we follow this organization, the plan would be as such:

    Our target will be the gate. The first units on the field will be the Uncroaked, soon to be followed up with the bulk of our forces. Our archers will keep constant fire on the ramparts. The casters will stay out of range if possible, although they'll still be accompanied by bodyguards for protection.

    The squad charged with breaking down the gate should be Uncroaked if possible, otherwise it will be Squad Schwerpunkt. When the gate falls, we'd probably send in the Bombers to soften up the defenders. After that, in would go Schwerpunkt, closely followed by the Cossacks. Then Regus', Sto's, and Vinny's Squads would file in behind them.

    From that point on, it's pretty much a rout.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:03 am 
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    Nnelg wrote:
    I think we should go ahead and set a timetable now:
    Spoiler: show
    Turn 10-11: Tenebris pops Imps. Balrug flies to Tenebris (if it isn't there already).

    Turn 12: The New Batch will arrive in Tenebris. Nemo, Fort, and Sto (and possibly one more Unit) get a ride on the Balrug to Dis City. Tenebris pops Towers, which are dispatched (with gobwins) to Dis City (ETA Turn 20). Sto pops 4 Gobwin Artisans at Dis City to assist Vinny.

    Turn 13: Tenebris starts popping a Dark Archon. Tenebris gobwins pop soldiers to serve under Regus' command. Regus' Company (including Melissa) embarks for Logan's Run (ETA Turn 20). Balrug returns to Tenebris.

    Turn 14: Tenebris Gobwins pop 4 level 1 Spearmen/Warriors to serve under Sto. Balrug shuttles them out to Dis City.

    Turn 15: Army at Dis City embarks for Logan's Run (ETA Turn 20).

    Turn 16: Tenebris completes Dark Archon. Dark Archon attempts to catch up with the column by flying to Logan's Run via Dis City (ETA Turn 19).

    Turns 17-18: Tenebris pops Merc PCs, whom are sent out on their mission.

    Turn 19: Dark Archon joins the main army.

    Turn 20: Towers arrive in Dis City. Regus' Company links up with the rest of our Battalion, and the Assault on Logan's Run begins.


    There. Does anyone have any problems with attacking on Turn 20? If we agree now to stick to these embarkation times, at least, then the rest of the planning will go a lot smoother.

    The Eta of 20 for a departure time of turn 15 is off. While it does take 5 turns of travel to get there, turn 15 is included in that time, so the arrival time would be turn 19.

    I'm would like for the army to leave Dis city on Turn 13, right after we produce the artisians needed to craft a stack's worth of mining picks and a couple bone carts, and for the battle to happen on turn 17. The increased speed gives us the option of using the 9 Skeleton archers remaining from the last battle to aid in the assault. (Sadly, Melissa will be unable to attend the battle unless she travels to Logan run directly from Tenebris.)

    Popping a dark archon is also of questionable value to us at this point. While the additional aerial firepower is not to be scoffed at, the main values of such expensive units are their specials, which can give access to new abilities. Aside from Foolamancy(Crypsis), (which Nemo will eventually be able to buy) there is nothing in the dark archon's list of specials that our casters or warlords cannot already do. The manpower that 64 UP could buy in normal troops is of more value to us currently.

    I'm thinking of using a more mundane force to take the city than your plan calls for (I plan to use ranged damage to fully clear the walls of archers before even beginning to breach the gate). 14 living NPC archers, a stack of mining pick equipped warriors (mostly heavies and leadership units), the stack of spearmen, Bill*, (Triage or Junetta), Wandereus**, 4-6 mounts (for the leaders and casters), 3 swarms of Brickbats***, a full horde of skele archers, and any PC aside from Bill who wishes to come.

    *(I don't mean to imply that Bill has no choice in the matter. I'm singling him out because Bill's abilities are large part of my current battle plan and I'll have to trash it if theColonel doesn't want to play along with it. If any other PC wants to partake in attacking another city, doing random encounters, foraging, escorting the Ixian diplomats***, or doing Mercenary missions, I can work around it. I'm expecting Bill to create and lead 24 additional units. The 9 skeles cost 28 juice turnly for him to maintain. With the +8 staff, he'll have 32 left. If we cart along 15 corpses for the trip, Bill can raise them as more skele archers on the turn of the battle and the 2 proceeding it. (He casts pall raiser twice and bone puppeteer once for all 3 turns.) 5 of them will have full power, 5 suffer from one turn of normal decay, 5 from 2 turns of normal decay and 9 suffer from 2 bouts of extended decay.)
    **(I want to get Wandereus to level 4 so he can take logistician and comptroller. Then he retires from the field to manage Tenebris and keep an eye on Lolly.)
    ***(Leaving one behind for use by any other mission.)
    ***(Nemo can change what side an unit appears to be on. I sense vast potential for several varities of diplomatic incident here.)

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:04 am 
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    Swodaems wrote:
    I'm would like for the army to leave Dis city on Turn 13, right after we produce the artisians needed to craft a stack's worth of mining picks and a couple bone carts, and for the battle to happen on turn 17. The increased speed gives us the option of using the 9 Skeleton archers remaining from the last battle to aid in the assault. (Sadly, Melissa will be unable to attend the battle unless she travels to Logan run directly from Tenebris.)

    And neither would Anex, Regus, or Zed-Too. The point of waiting those three extra turns is to get more PCs (even secondary PCs) into the fight. (Still, I suppose that's not as big of a concern...)

    Swodaems wrote:
    Popping a dark archon is also of questionable value to us at this point. While the additional aerial firepower is not to be scoffed at, the main values of such expensive units are their specials, which can give access to new abilities. Aside from Foolamancy(Crypsis), (which Nemo will eventually be able to buy) there is nothing in the dark archon's list of specials that our casters or warlords cannot already do. The manpower that 64 UP could buy in normal troops is of more value to us currently.

    Dark Archons have Spell Sense, a special we have no other way to acquire. She's the ultimate in counter-intelligence forces. Our side should have at least one, and the sooner we pop her the sooner she can level, gaining special upon useful special.

    Also, Nemo has in-character motivations (to expand his spy network). ;)

    (Note: This is also a less-important thing.)

    Swodaems wrote:
    (I plan to use ranged damage to fully clear the walls of archers before even beginning to breach the gate).

    Why? Why not swarm the enemy archers with more targets than they can shoot at? It's not like you're keeping the most vulnerable units back.

    Besides, once the walls are clear, we've pretty much already won. The whole point of trying to break though is to leverage the advantage our melee troops have over archers in close combat.

    If you're so worried about the archers, Nemo can Baffle-smoke most of them.


    Swodaems wrote:
    4-6 mounts (for the leaders and casters)

    I'd like to ask why we even need mounts for the leaders and casters anymore. It's (usually) no longer possible to pick out single targets with archery, and spellcasting has a longer range than Fire. There is no reason we must use mounts exclusively for leaders and casters anymore.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:09 am 
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    Back from a vacation!

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    Follow the link *Waves hand*

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:55 am 
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    Nnelg wrote:
    You forgot the Wars of the Roses, the 100 Year's War, the Empire of Friedrich the Great, the Crusades, and of course Napoleon. :D


    Besides Napoleon (who I did indeed forget, gosh darn it) and Freddy the Biggie, nah :D (I purposefully left both of those out, as they aren't, not in my mind anyway, the best examples of large scale and fast conquest. Certainly not the 100 year war.)

    Anyway, back to our game here. I'd like to point out that in, for example, Heroes (assuming you recruited every time you had units available to recruit), one city could produce a full complement of units, from the lowest to the highest tier, each week. Which works out as quite a bit faster than our popping rate here. This is not a strike against these rules or those of Heroes'. It's merely an observation.

    EDIT: The Bene Guess-It Rite, eh? I'm telling ya Tleilaxu will appear. And they are evil.

    - On topic of siege- William is thrilled to be back in action, so to the siege he'd go, along with a complement of Archers to benefit from Paragon. He'd petition to rename the Archery group to Archnemesis.

    MarbitChow wrote:
    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    In other news, I am getting tempted to take on a Dark Archon PC (isn't everyone?).
    Dark Archons, as well as Bad Asses, Lesser Bone Dagrons, Naughty Kitties, Heck Pups, Imps, and Balrugs, are not available as PC characters. Nor are gobwins available as PC characters. They are simply special units that can be popped by the side. You're limited to the options under "Character Creation" in the rule set. :ugeek:


    Baww. Probably the wisest choice as -everyone- would then want some lame PC like a lesser bone dragon or whatever. But still. Bawww.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:17 am 
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    Nnelg wrote:
    Swodaems wrote:
    4-6 mounts (for the leaders and casters)

    I'd like to ask why we even need mounts for the leaders and casters anymore. It's (usually) no longer possible to pick out single targets with archery, and spellcasting has a longer range than Fire. There is no reason we must use mounts exclusively for leaders and casters anymore.


    WHAT.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:25 am 
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    Yeah, Nnelg, it's usually no longer possible to target individuals BECAUSE of things like mounts and bodyguards.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:06 pm 
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    Just a note, I'm still useless in combat. I provide no bonus to my golems until lvl 3. So no need to plan for me stacking with them.

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