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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Exate wrote:
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Charlie pays the unit's upkeep each turn, plus pays 2x the upkeep in shmuckers for each unit, multiplied by the level of the unit.
Can you give a couple examples with stock units and concrete numbers here so there is no confusion? This sentence can be read several different ways.
Upkeep is 5x UP for popping the unit.

A Level 1 Zed Archer is 2 UP, so 10 Upkeep. Charlie pays the 10 upkeep, plus the side gets 20 shmuckers / turn.
A Level 1 Archer is 4 UP, so 20 Upkeep. Charlie pays the 20 upkeep, plus the side gets 40 shmuckers / turn.
A Level 2 Archer is 4 UP, so 40 Upkeep. Charlie pays the 40 upkeep, plus the side gets 80 shmuckers / turn.
Bill is a level 4 Croakamancer, so Tenebris and Charlie negotiate on what Bill's rates are on a per-incident basis, and Tenebris most likely gets some details about the scenario before they risk such a valuable unit.
Exate wrote:
I can't find rules for unit upkeep in the new rule thread, although I know I've read it somewhere before. Have those been added yet?
Not yet.
Exate wrote:
Are the colors on that map meant to denote terrain- that is, the green is plains/forest/etc. while the grey/brown is mountains?
That's correct. Green is primarily forest.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:38 pm 
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    So I'm a little confused here, how does this mercenary thing work? Do we actually have control of what our character does, will we see the combats we are engaged in?
    As for control over units, being a Dollamancer would Vinny for example still control what he produces? And would we be able to negotiate a "package deal" sort of thing where certain PCs will remain together during their mission?

    I'm initially inclined to refuse because it's really not the option I was expecting and hoping for, but clarification on these might influence my decision.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:05 pm 
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    Rudy would be happy to go mercenary... seems a good way to earn some smukers and a nice income. If he could get a stack of archers to command it would get better...

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:11 pm 
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    (IC) T. Coil will urge the leadership to pursue the rogue Dollamancer, he will also suggest that both himself as well as Junetta to insure the capture of such a potentially useful unit. Given that the caster has already demonstrated an ability to craft golems, the sooner he is captured the sooner he can be turned and the sooner 2 Casters can churn out Golems and/or equipment to help further offset out income issues and even the difference in popping potential. That said delaying until we take Logan's Run may be worth it, but every turn we delay will make the eventual battle that much tougher.

    (OOC) An interesting caster dynamic in the comics is the differentiation between Caster title and level, attaining Master-Class (presumably after Apprentice and Journeyman Class) is apparently a function of magical understanding rather than (or at least in addition to) experience. As such, and also to flesh out Coil's night work as more than just what everyone assumes it is, I will now display some of Coil's notes from his experimentation on the Gumption.

    Stun and Calm Hypotheses

    The power and greatness of Shockamancy is more than it's ability to reduce hits which is an extension of the Matter Element, it is also in its ability to Stun those it strikes Which is an extension of the Motion Element. Yet it cannot effect all units with this capability, indeed neither Uncroaked nor Constructs are effected by this portion of Shockamancy. This seems a strange thing as both are created from schools that are based in Motion and/or Matter so why would effects regarding one of those Elements be ineffective against them. One might suspect that it could be because of their nontraditional Matter Structure, yet then one would suspect that other similarly variant Matter structures like Gumptions, but this is incorrect, such things seem to be little more than Signamancy, at least for the purposes of this line of magic. Instead I must look to other reasons for this distinction. Experimentation upon croaked Gumptions has yielded some potential data, but is ultimately incomplete, as usual it is from my own mind that the answer comes, distasteful as that answer may be. For it seems to be clear that it is the Life Element which facilitates the application of Stun. This realization came to me as I pondered why Hippymancy was able to effect the Bone Dwagon we fought, what was Flower Power that would allow it to disable units I could not? The answer seems obvious that it must lay in the Life Element, for both Flower Power and Shockamancy exist on the Erf Axis. Perhaps Flower Power seeds Life onto the Matter of the units growing just enough to control them and force them to stop their Motion. If this is the case perhaps a unit so afflicted could then be Stunned...an interesting though but when that seems foolish to try in battle, and one I will be unable to pursue through experimentation unless I am made Chief Caster as Junetta will prove entirely unwilling to aid in my research unless I can order her to do so, and I cannot justify the expense of Scrolls for such experimentation at this time or perhaps ever, a sad reality so this will have to be tested in the Magic Kingdom when I return there next. Future experiment options include Uncroaked, Golems, and units unique to both Tenebris and the Recovered Crown.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:13 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    So I'm a little confused here, how does this mercenary thing work? Do we actually have control of what our character does, will we see the combats we are engaged in?
    As for control over units, being a Dollamancer would Vinny for example still control what he produces?
    PCs would control themselves, and their stack. There would probably be a commander of the field, which may or may not be a PC, and may or may not be exceptionally competent. Players will be free to make their own calls.

    0beron wrote:
    And would we be able to negotiate a "package deal" sort of thing where certain PCs will remain together during their mission?
    Perhaps. Remember that there is a buyer on the other side of the arrangement, and he may not be willing to fund the added expense. Your side will always be free to reject any particular mercenary contract, of course. Each player may even reject a mission individually, since you are free willed; your King cannot order or compel you to obey.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:18 pm 
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    ETheBoyce wrote:
    (OOC) An interesting caster dynamic in the comics is the differentiation between Caster title and level, attaining Master-Class (presumably after Apprentice and Journeyman Class) is apparently a function of magical understanding rather than (or at least in addition to) experience. As such, and also to flesh out Coil's night work as more than just what everyone assumes it is, I will now display some of Coil's notes from his experimentation on the Gumption.

    Love the theory. :)

    I've personally viewed that the Master Class title was effectively a block, and the user couldn't progress until they had that breakthrough.

    In game, I've assumed that Master Class is Level 9, and would involve each caster creating a unique spell at that time. I haven't really thought much more about the details than that, since we're a LONG way off from anyone reaching that. :D

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:47 pm 
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    If I weren't playing a caster I would be jumping at this deal. But as it is I'll be able to create random encounters at level 5. And I'd prefer to just get experience from campaining.

    Any chance I could take over a warrior for merc work?

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:56 pm 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    Regarding upkeep: Common wisdom is that ranged units forage significantly more effectively than warriors / spearmen, and the level of the hunter also appears to have an impact.


    (IC William) Why y'all looking at me like that? I'm not buffing my Combat to Dwagon slaying levels so that I can go hunt sparrows.

    ETheBoyce wrote:
    (IC) T. Coil will urge the leadership to pursue the rogue Dollamancer, he will also suggest that both himself as well as Junetta to insure the capture of such a potentially useful unit. Given that the caster has already demonstrated an ability to craft golems, the sooner he is captured the sooner he can be turned and the sooner 2 Casters can churn out Golems and/or equipment to help further offset out income issues and even the difference in popping potential. That said delaying until we take Logan's Run may be worth it, but every turn we delay will make the eventual battle that much tougher.


    (IC William) Our resident pain master is correct. We should pursue this upstart Lolly, <insert a certain statement here once the comm between Yuri-Lolly becomes shared knowledge>.

    ETheBoyce wrote:
    (OOC) An interesting caster dynamic in the comics is the differentiation between Caster title and level, attaining Master-Class (presumably after Apprentice and Journeyman Class) is apparently a function of magical understanding rather than (or at least in addition to) experience. As such, and also to flesh out Coil's night work as more than just what everyone assumes it is, I will now display some of Coil's notes from his experimentation on the Gumption.


    Love the Hermetic/Alchemical flavor of the subsequent text, nice!

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:56 pm 
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    WhirdCheese wrote:
    Any chance I could take over a warrior for merc work?
    Seeing as how a number of players have already picked up secondary PCs, I don't see why not. In fact, this would open up the ability to play non-Tenebris casters as well, although they'd probably be one-shot characters (used for the scenario, then likely never seen again).

    ... Crap. How much have I just bitten off? :shock: :D

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:18 pm 
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    I'll have two. Fortune's Chance and a Spearman. I'll just pick up a first level spearman make him leadership and take 4 other zed or first level warriors 2 archers and 1 spearman on merc missions.

    I'll just throw the warrior in a spoiler and see when one can be popped

    Stabsthings
    Spoiler: show
    1st level Spearman
    5 Combat
    4 Defense
    12 Hits
    Leadership


    4 Warriors
    Spoiler: show
    5 Combat
    11 Defense
    22 Hits
    Well protected x2 Beefy


    2 Archers
    Spoiler: show
    10 Combat
    3 Defense
    18 Hits
    Well-Armed Beefy


    1 Spearman
    Spoiler: show
    8 Combat
    7 Defense
    20 Hits
    Well-armed Well protected Beefy


    Stack designed for maximum survivability

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:45 pm 
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    Remember that, in general, Charlie makes the request. Since his rates are expensive, most sides don't usually want just any random scrub unless they're desperate for units and flush with cash.
    (The fact that Tenebris units might come pre-warded and blessed does make a good selling point, though...)

    So, you can certainly pick a spearman as your secondary, but you don't necessarily get to pick who goes with you.
    Also, you might want to select one of the existing 2nd-level spearmen that Tod is currently training; within 9-11 turns, they'll be 3rd level.
    If you get called by Charlie before then, you're at least further along into 2nd level by then.
    I'm going to put a hard limit of 2 characters per PC, though. And I won't feel at all bad about throwing secondary PCs into hopeless situations. :twisted:

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:48 pm 
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    That sounds just like the kind of scenarios where Zed-too would love to find himself at.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:51 pm 
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    Yeah Vinny will definitely pass. As a caster it is inappropriate for me to risk myself in that fashion. I guess I'll just go help capture the better-than-me-replacement instead -_-

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    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:53 pm 
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    (IC William)

    Don't worry Caster, I suspect you will be thankful to the Titans for not sharing Lolly's fate at the hands of our resident Turner. Unless you're into that sort of thing.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:56 pm 
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    Tis not a worry, I've become accustomed to feeling superfluous...

    _________________
    "I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
    GJC wrote:
    Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
    There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:56 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Yeah Vinny will definitely pass. As a caster it is inappropriate for me to risk myself in that fashion. I guess I'll just go help capture the better-than-me-replacement instead -_-


    I felt the same way too. Then I leveled up to level 4 while fighting the Dagron! :D

    OOC: If there's room for another mook going on a merc mission, I wouldn't mind piloting him. For Kilroy!

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:01 pm 
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    Ok, guys, let's make it official and keep this thread clean(-ish). Post your request for secondary characters in the Campaign Reference thread (link in sig).

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:01 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Tis not a worry, I've become accustomed to feeling superfluous...


    (IC William)

    You doubt yourself too much. Anyone who can summon new hands to combat has great power within. Never forget that.

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:07 pm 
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    PS: So Junetta will continue to dabble in Flower Power while also picking up a group heal power - do any of our tacticians have any suggestions on what I should get? Both Healomancers will be able to Ward and Heal single targets at a similar capacity while we're the same level; I'm also considering taking Burnout to significantly increase my Warding power on off-turns. That leaves 1 more spell - I'm thinking about Shatter Ward in case we have to deal with Warded high Def units.

    Tod, are we likely to need more Wards before battle or more group healing? (I'm inclined to the former simply because I'm not sure about the applicability of me healing adjacent RLOSed units...)

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     Post Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:13 pm 
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    If there's only room for one then I'll pick a tank.

    So my warrior build
    5 Combat
    11 Defense
    22 Hits
    Well protected x2 Beefy

    Someone else will have to pick up the leadership role.

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