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 Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
 Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:49 pm 
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OOC:
HerbieRai wrote:
How long before orders are due? If we're going off of 1 day timer we should get this show on the road.


As soon as there's an explicit consensus on what we want to do. If we follow the scheme outlined before, we need to decide whether to target three Archers or the Healer and one Archer. My vote's on three Archers, as I don't think they can be brought back by the Healer, nor will she be able to place any other spell than the wards already present. If I'm wrong point this out.
/OOC

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:01 pm 
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    ooc: Just so long as we set orders for our fliers to attack the same target until its dead. Also we can hopefully have them pick targets that aren't stacked with the enemy leadership. Also once we start uncroaking enemies we should probably have them target enemy archers rather than the Healomancer, as depending on who they target it might allow us to bring in our other caster sooner. I'm probably going to be pretty necessary to take out those Gumps...Can we capture Gumps?

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:20 pm 
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    ETheBoyce wrote:
    ooc: Just so long as we set orders for our fliers to attack the same target until its dead. Also we can hopefully have them pick targets that aren't stacked with the enemy leadership. Also once we start uncroaking enemies we should probably have them target enemy archers rather than the Healomancer, as depending on who they target it might allow us to bring in our other caster sooner. I'm probably going to be pretty necessary to take out those Gumps...Can we capture Gumps?

    You won't be able to tell for certain who is stacked w/ Leadership until you've attacked them and seen the bonus in effect, and it can be changed each turn.
    Gumps are considered heroic units, and can be captured. However, they're considered Natural Allies of the elves and are notoriously difficult to turn without a Turnamancer.
    One potential benefit of capturing them, however, is that you can select someone to execute them, gaining full XP without risk (assuming no one kill-steals the incapacitated gump before the end of combat... :twisted: )

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:29 pm 
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    OOC:
    Alright then, The fliers will form up with our leader, and move forward in the following formation

    XXX
    XBX
    XCX
    /X

    I assume our leadership will be on the ground like so

    B
    L

    Where X's are fliers, B is a bat swarm,L is leadership, and C is cupid. We will fire at the archers, killing one before targeting the next. Prioritizing any that have not fired yet.
    /OOC

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:31 pm 
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    OOc: I don't think the leader has to be near the fliers in order to grant them leadership

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:39 pm 
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    OOC: remember that the first to step in the field were the Rams, along with the Spearmen and Warriors for protection. Presumably Archers will fire on them as they advance in formation towards the walls./OOC

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:48 pm 
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    ETheBoyce wrote:
    OOc: I don't think the leader has to be near the fliers in order to grant them leadership

    This is correct. The leader just needs to be in the same hex.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:49 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    Random notes.

    I am surprised that apparently claimed corpses are immune to decay until they're turned into an uncroaked. We should exploit this by keeping all bodies from the battle on ice until our croakamancer can put them to proper use.

    Our Warriors on the ram and Fliers are all heroic, so they'll live to -5 Hits. And all of them have tons of Hits to heal once they go down. If our Healmancer stays back through the whole conflict and conserves juice for the aftermath, they'll gain 6.4 XP from throwing heals, level and get another 8 juice which they can use for another 6.4 XP, and if 14.8 XP is enough to get to level 3 and that there are enough casualties around, they'll be able to throw another 8 juice of heals and get all the way up to 21.4 XP. Not bad for a job with zero personal danger. Since healed units stick with us to the next mission, recovering as many downed units as possible is pretty much our best move.

    Apparently fliers can lift willing units (presumably other than heavies), meaning that once our infantry make it to the wall, there's the possibility of having the fliers airlift some of them up there into melee. Not sure how practical that will look a couple turns from now, what with casualties and all. But this does mean that we don't actually need to depend upon the rams as our sole chance of taking the city.

    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think we need the Healmancer down by the time we engage the Gumps- preferably the commander as well. They have Mighty Blow, but should they choose not to use it their Defense 12 could let them tank absurd amounts of damage even if we swarm them with eight troops each- and Defense 15 (from Leadership) would make it even worse. It's probably optimal to take out enemy archers the first round to reduce their firepower, but we'll need to shift targets and take out the caster fairly quickly afterward. Once they're gone our best counter for the Gumps is probably our Shockamancer, but until we've cleared enough enemy archery to bring him onto the field they are going to be a serious problem.

    How does the Healmancer have Mass Revitalize without Renew?

    We should be sure to target unled archers when bringing them down during the first couple rounds in order to maximize casualties.

    Rolf and Yuri are pretty useless here since they have no ranged capability, ability to grant bonuses, or even combat ability exceeding that of our line mooks. Still, I suppose they might as well advance along with the rams- they're low-priority targets due to their very uselessness and it's their only chance at getting some XP from this.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:58 pm 
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    OOC: I for one have nothing against Yuri and Rolf joining in the siege clump. Indeed, as mere melee and not guards of anyone else, they are not the juiciest targets around so will probably get to the wall.

    Assuming they don't move (and why would they), the Gumps will engage our siege in three or four turns. We'll see what to do and adjust to the situation on the field by then. So far, let's get through the first phase./OOC

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:06 pm 
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    Exate wrote:
    I am surprised that apparently claimed corpses are immune to decay until they're turned into an uncroaked. We should exploit this by keeping all bodies from the battle on ice until our croakamancer can put them to proper use.

    I'm assuming that's a standard tactic. The main limit to Croakamancy is juice, not lack of bodies.

    Exate wrote:
    How does the Healmancer have Mass Revitalize without Renew?

    Good catch. I've removed Mass Revitalize, and given her Renew instead.

    Exate wrote:
    We should be sure to target unled archers when bringing them down during the first couple rounds in order to maximize casualties.

    As I've noted earlier, you cannot determine who is unlead until you've hit them, but if you want to place the condition that the Fliers switch targets if they hit an archer w/ Leadership bonus, make sure that's specified in the marching orders.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:10 pm 
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    OOC: well, if we do hit an Archer that had Leadership bonus ... unless we had dealt no damage at all to that unit, switch target. But only then. Do not let damage go to waste!/OOC

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:16 pm 
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    OOC: Another consideration, we may want to target archers in the the front row, but not on the ends, this will prevent the enemy leader from attacking them for at least one turn when they are unrcroaked

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:26 pm 
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Will fliers be able to block RLOS against elevated positons on ground troops ?

    Fliers cannot block RLOS, but can grant the +4 Cover bonus to ground units if they choose to give up their own Elevation bonus.

    In this situation the fliers are giving up their elevation defense advantage to protect units that the enemy has an elevation adantage against. How would that effect the fliers' ability to do damage to units on the wall? Would they still be treated as if they're attacking from the same elevation or higher? Or would they now be attacking enemies with a +4 defense bonus?

    MarbitChow wrote:
    Swodaems wrote:
    If we lose one of the ram carriers, what exactly can we draft to replace him?

    Any 4 units (except the Brickabats) can be used to wield a ram, including fliers. Fliers carrying the ram can move 8 squares instead of 5, but they lose their Flight Elevation Bonus if they attack the door or walls.


    We may actually want to center our plan around finding a way to have the flyers do most of the carrying. If we can have the fliers carry the ram(s) for at least 2 turns we can shave an entire phase off our travel time. (yeah, we'll probably see 1 ram dropped after the first turn that the heavies will need to pick up, but the remaining 1 could make the trip in 3 turns instead of 4.) (MarbitChow, you said that that they lose their FEB when they make the attack with the ram, not when they are transporting it. Are they actually flying that thing in? And can they still Fire while carrying it? Also what exactly is the shape of a ram being carried by 4 units. (4 units all on 1 square, 2x2, 3x2, 3x3,etc.))

    Can we abuse the Caster/Commander love relationship implied in the mission briefing? We might be able to get our Healomancer a free pass by incapacitating the caster and telling the commander that our healomancer is the only one who can save her.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:30 pm 
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    Swodaems wrote:
    MarbitChow wrote:
    Werebiscuit wrote:
    Will fliers be able to block RLOS against elevated positons on ground troops ?

    Can we abuse the Caster/Commander love relationship implied in the mission briefing? We might be able to get our Healomancer a free pass by incapacitating the caster and telling the commander that our healomancer is the only one who can save her.


    I approve of this wholeheartedly.

    I also concur on staying out of the battle until we get enough of the archers whittled down to make it safe for us casters to enter; I do worry about what's inside the castle though.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:34 pm 
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    Random thought: Would there be any tactical benefit to having fliers lift our own archers? Can our archers still attack while they are being held?

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:35 pm 
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    OOC:

    Swodaems wrote:
    We may actually want to center our plan around finding a way to have the flyers do most of the carrying.


    Numbers please. Our Fliers attacking their Archers without flying have almost no chance of inflicting damage. Further, the Archers WILL KILL our Fliers with ease without any elevation defense bonus for them. In fact, without elevation, one Archer has a good chance to one shot an unguarded flier. Guard the Archers then, and if we use 2 guards, a Flier's defense becomes 10. Archers (with Mighty Blow) would then inflict 2-12 damage, that is an average of 7. That's still dangerously close to a one-shot kill.

    Bad idea, imo, to put all our eggs (ram carrying, immediate offense) in one basket. At least let the Archers ponder what to attack, and keep ranged damage separate from ram carrying.

    /OOC

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    Last edited by BLANDCorporatio on Tue May 22, 2012 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:35 pm 
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    OOC:

    WaterMonkey314 wrote:
    Random thought: Would there be any tactical benefit to having fliers lift our own archers? Can our archers still attack while they are being held?


    That's a Better Idea.

    WaterMonkey314 wrote:
    Swodaems wrote:
    Can we abuse the Caster/Commander love relationship implied in the mission briefing? We might be able to get our Healomancer a free pass by incapacitating the caster and telling the commander that our healomancer is the only one who can save her.


    I approve of this wholeheartedly.[/quote]

    Best idea yet. While I've got an inkling of suspicion that it may not work, I like the approach.

    /OOC

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    Last edited by BLANDCorporatio on Tue May 22, 2012 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:37 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    MarbitChow wrote:
    Exate wrote:
    We should be sure to target unled archers when bringing them down during the first couple rounds in order to maximize casualties.

    As I've noted earlier, you cannot determine who is unlead until you've hit them, but if you want to place the condition that the Fliers switch targets if they hit an archer w/ Leadership bonus, make sure that's specified in the marching orders.
    I'd say just shoot the archers who aren't near the commander- it's unlikely that he'll be leading those unless he actively anticipates a shell game with us over which archers are getting his bonuses.

    Swodaems wrote:
    We may actually want to center our plan around finding a way to have the flyers do most of the carrying. If we can have the fliers carry the ram(s) for at least 2 turns we can shave an entire phase off our travel time. (yeah, we'll probably see 1 ram dropped after the first turn that the heavies will need to pick up, but the remaining 1 could make the trip in 3 turns instead of 4.)
    Unfortunately, only the units currently carrying the ram have the hits and Defense to stand up to any significant amount of enemy fire. I would rather not give the enemy archers an excuse to redirect their fire to the only units of ours that can actually hit them back unless we really need to.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:39 pm 
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    Exate wrote:
    Unfortunately, only the units currently carrying the ram have the hits and Defense to stand up to any significant amount of enemy fire. I would rather not give the enemy archers an excuse to redirect their fire to the only units of ours that can actually hit them back unless we really need to.


    Spoken like I should have. Concise and to the point.

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     Post subject: Re: Darkness Rising
     Post Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:50 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    OOC:

    WaterMonkey314 wrote:
    Random thought: Would there be any tactical benefit to having fliers lift our own archers? Can our archers still attack while they are being held?


    That's a Better Idea.

    Upon further review, this doesn't really work. Only William Showend Tell is a non-flying non-caster Archer... so that's not too much of a help. Unless we think a flying caster is well-protected enough to enter battle.

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