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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:15 pm 
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GK has invisible Archons who are able to report all of our movements but are unable to attack us.

This is clearly not working out for us, since we are unable to keep any scouts in the field. If the Outriders had survived this turn, I might have been more optimistic, but now we are not even able to advance without stepping into an ambush.

Either we have completely and utterly failed in the design of our force structure, or the GK force's capability to scout the entire map for no cost places us at a huge disadvantage. In tBfGB2, GB was only 7 hexes away from our base camp; whereas now we are forced to cross a large plain with no road, and now no capability to get scouts out to the front of our force.

We may have to relook the entire scouting process before we can consider going on to the next game.
Pop Points:
Nawnia: 70+0
Thundermen: 50+9
Avewnus: 50+2
Generica: 30+18

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:22 pm 
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    A possble fix would be for scouts to have Move x 2 scouting range.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:27 pm 
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    Twoy wrote:
    Either we have completely and utterly failed in the design of our force structure, or the GK force's capability to scout the entire map for no cost places us at a huge disadvantage. In tBfGB2, GB was only 7 hexes away from our base camp; whereas now we are forced to cross a large plain with no road, and now no capability to get scouts out to the front of our force.
    There is probably a point there, if not quite the one you think--the lack of terrain features means that a mobile force can easily break the supply lines of a less mobile one, which supports an omniscient force, and I treat each of my units as sort of a chess piece, moving it across the board separately but in conjunction with my other units, which is the effective opposite of the current MCC strategy, forming a massive tile of doom that no unled melee stack can hope to penetrate.

    There are benefits and drawbacks to each, the obvious drawback to my strategy being that 2 Archers are about to provide an easy XP point to Edmund and the Thunder Lizards.
    Twoy wrote:
    A possble fix would be for scouts to have Move x 2 scouting range.
    This could be brought into consideration, but another possible fix would be to just pop a Lookamancer once we introduce casting, which should be next game. As a commander, a Lookamancer would take x4 Hits to croak, and would not even have to be on the front lines.

    Edit: This is just from my looking back at the TBfGB thread--this game's cost formula supports high-move, medium sized units better than giant sized, low-move units. TBfGB was the opposite. e.g., my Sourmanders cost 20 points less than Siralus's Thunder Lizards, but are 4 times as fast. In TBfGB, the Wessew Dwagons cost twice as much as Gowems, but had the same defense and only half the Attack. The result is that a 1-2-1-5 Orly type unit would cost 6 points, and with no unit cap could probably overpower the same cost... anything. Let's see, 17 could be popped per Dwagon, and they'd have twice the Attack of a Dwagon... 9 per Thunder Lizard, at least they don't out attack it, if they do outmaneuver it.

    Thoughts on this?

    Also edited in the main text slightly.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:46 pm 
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    Well, i forgot they have archons, but don't forget that if we're fighting before the main column reached GK, it means that their tri-mancer link is still up and running. Anyway, they see us pretty well. It's like a map hack :D

    So what can we do?

    We can pop ONLY fliers, and stack all those fliers together each turn and move them to the main column.

    For example, if i pop 3 dwakes, someone else pops 4 gwiffons, those 7 fliers will stack and fly to the main column.
    I also suggest popping a commander for each flier wave. Dwake Commanders are good for that job.
    Our 1 turn worth of fliers with a commander would surely fight-back against those raiders. And we could add 1 imp to those stacks, so the imps aren't that easy to take out. Ah but commanders can selectively target i think...So still, we're blind.

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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:02 pm 
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    Quick question because I'm trying to work out how you've lost all your scouts in the north, you remember that scouts don't actually move during the scout phase right? They just look at the other hexes.

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:08 pm 
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    zilfallon wrote:
    Well, i forgot they have archons, but don't forget that if we're fighting before the main column reached GK, it means that their tri-mancer link is still up and running. Anyway, they see us pretty well. It's like a map hack
    This scenario is while the GK main column is attacking Unaroyal City, it is taking place prior to the negotiation where Queen Bea has Princess Cruz dusted, and possibly even prior to Cruz's death. It just comes after Orgchart is taken, 18 turns post-BfGK.
    zilfallon wrote:
    Ah but commanders can selectively target i think...So still, we're blind.
    Commanders can selectively target, this was implemented to minimize the Diwigible effect--where a single giant unit protects a horde of Minis.
    Sihoiba wrote:
    Quick question because I'm trying to work out how you've lost all your scouts in the north, you remember that scouts don't actually move during the scout phase right? They just look at the other hexes.
    And they know that, their scouts have just managed to end turn isolated from stronger units (or, in the case of the Outriders, close enough to my base camp to be subject to Warlord-led raids) but either way, I'm evil enough to figure out where I can recklessly attack and destroy them.

    More to the point, it's the only way I can possibly delay them for any amount of time...

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     Post Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:16 pm 
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    Well. How annoying. Now we need some more Generic Scouts.

    And we should try to get a ranged stack in our advance column to stop that happening again.

    King Edmund - we of the Generics are considering restacking into our most power group, and advancing recklessly into unscouted hexes. Do you wish to object?

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:51 am 
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    If I'm not mistaken, your stack will take double damage from Ambush.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:48 am 
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    Well, yes, naturally. But we Generics don't worry about such things. Those are concerns for individuals with actual personalities.

    We suggest that it would be better to trundle our way forward blindly into an ambush then wait the additional two turns it will take for scout reinforcements to arrive at our current position.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:49 am 
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    Well, we have some rather simple options.

    1. We advance blind, strike like lightning!
    2. We wait for scouts, and sit on our heels in the intervening time. This allows the enemy to build up, and for us to see them.
    3. We wait for our heavies (essentially the same as above), then roll over the enemy like a wave of thunder!

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:41 pm 
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    Question: If we send a unit in to get ambushed, will the other units that follow also get ambushed?

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:54 pm 
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    If a unit is ambushed, it "scouts" the hex. I will be kind enough to tell you what is in the hex, and I'll kill the x2 Ambush bonus for the rest of the turn for that hex.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:33 pm 
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    That helps a lot.

    Everyone let's pop our units and then scout whatever we can. here are the pop points again.

    Pop Points:
    Nawnia: 70+0
    Thundermen: 50+9
    Avewnus: 50+2
    Generica: 30+18

    Nawnia Pop:
    Griffon Rider x 1 with 7 pop points left.

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:54 pm 
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    5 bats. (Leaving 4)

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:07 pm 
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    Captain-General Genericus will return the 48 pop points to King Edmund.
    "We need Flyers now, Chief. Infantry won't make it in time to make a noticeable difference."

    He turns to the Generic forces in the hex.

    RESTACK!

    Stack A:
    Ogres x2, Guardsman x5, Captain-General Genericus, level 2.2
    Attack 114, Defence 5.

    Stack B:
    Guardsman x1

    Stack A: Advance!
    F8 - if undefended, then G8.
    Engage enemy stacks encountered. Report back to Command on contacts made.

    Stack B:
    Wait for orders from Allied Commanders.


    For the Generics of Generica!

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     Post Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:08 pm 
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    Oh, but wait - we're still in the scout phase. Sorry. The above can wait until the phase ends.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:14 pm 
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    And we didn't even begin the scout phrase since we aren't done popping.
    So, what are our popping options? I suggest popping ONLY fliers. I can pop a dwake commander to lead those fliers.

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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:08 pm 
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    Avewnus,
    I think you should pop a couple of Hellflame Dwakes to stack with my Gwiffon Riders and King Edmund. I will use the points from Generica to pop some Sparrowhawks, and maybe if we are lucky, they will surive to make it to the front.

    Nawnia Pop with Generica's pop points:
    Sparrowhawk x 3 with 3 points left over.


    After Avewnus pops his units, we will send out the scouts.

    Turn 5 Scout Phase:
    Scout 1: B2-6.
    Scout 2: B2, C2, D3-5.
    Scout 3: A2-4, B5, C5.


    Last edited by Twoy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:17 pm 
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    CPT-GEN Genericus,
    I want you to hold off on the main attack until we can get an inexpensive unit to F8 to spring the ambush if the Thundermen will agree to send one of their Thunder Bats on a probable suicide mission.

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     Post Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:28 pm 
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    Avewnus pops 2 Hellflame Dwakes. 2 x 26 = 52 points used, 0 points left.

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    JadedDragoon wrote:
    I was hoping we could debate the meaning of "agent" in the the Declaration of Non-Aggression again. It totally hasn't been argued to death already.

    You know... at this point you boops aren't beating dead horses any more. You're making glue.

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