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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Wanted to add: The 2nd-last panal was the first drawing of Wanda in this book that I liked.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:29 pm 
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    (my first Post here xD)

    my opinion is:

    Wanda got foretold a bit more than just wielding the pliers...

    something like that she would be with Julian.

    and that is the reason why she cant let any chance to talk her over to her side passing by?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:16 pm 
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    Slowness wrote:
    If Wanda kills the king, but fails to kill the prince, something like the following is BOUND to happen:

    Image

    Ahhh, I love character development! Tremennous will be changed by these events, I'll tell you that right now...


    Y'know, Trem kinda looks like a blond Inigo Montoya, minus the mustache.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:41 pm 
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    Cobalt wrote:
    (my first Post here xD)


    Welcome!

    Cobalt wrote:
    Wanda got foretold a bit more than just wielding the pliers...


    Possible! But the art of prophecy is in the vague-ness and interpretation, a la Nostradumus. I'd lay odds that Wanda will eventually act on what SHE thinks was prophesied to happen, but it will turn out to have been a botched interpretation.

    Cobalt wrote:
    something like that she would be with Julian.


    Weird that she still thinks so little of Jillian...

    Cobalt wrote:
    and that is the reason why she cant let any chance to talk her over to her side passing by?


    Interesting theory.

    I keep going back to that original scene with Wanda and Jillian, after the interrogation. Wanda acted differently with Jillian than I've seen her act with anyone else, even Parson. She got to vent her frustrations, and actually acted like a human being for a while...

    weird.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:24 pm 
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    BCCroaker wrote:
    Godhead Pickle Inspector "Fondly Regard Creation"


    You have a pumpkin. :)

    theseus2x wrote:
    I keep going back to that original scene with Wanda and Jillian, after the interrogation. Wanda acted differently with Jillian than I've seen her act with anyone else, even Parson. She got to vent her frustrations, and actually acted like a human being for a while... weird.


    Yeah, both Wanda and Jillian have a normal way to deal with others ... and a different way to deal with each other. A special relationship; in a way, it's understandable for Wanda to expect some leverage on Jillian, but it still seems too cocky to bank it all on that.

    ================

    One more thing. There's been a debate on who can (re)start a side and when. While we don't know explicitly the rules for this, a few people have provided links that show a) a side losing its designated leaders is very bad news for the regular units b) anyone can be a designated leader but they better get that status from someone competent to bestow it (a leader) before something bad happens.

    This suggests that not anyone can make a side; which is a neat theory consistent with most observations except two: Charlie and the Magic Kingdom. It may be that Charlie inherited the rulership a-la Stanley, it could be that Charlie is not actually the ruler of his/her/its side and is acting as Chief Warlord a-la Wanda (yes she is CW de-facto). We don't know, but these are plausible ways to reconcile Charlie with that side-needs-ruler theory. Which leaves only the Magical Kingdom as a thorn.

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    Last edited by BLANDCorporatio on Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:30 pm 
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    theseus2x wrote:
    Cobalt wrote:
    (my first Post here xD)


    Welcome!

    Cobalt wrote:
    Wanda got foretold a bit more than just wielding the pliers...


    Possible! But the art of prophecy is in the vague-ness and interpretation, a la Nostradumus. I'd lay odds that Wanda will eventually act on what SHE thinks was prophesied to happen, but it will turn out to have been a botched interpretation.

    Cobalt wrote:
    something like that she would be with Julian.


    Weird that she still thinks so little of Jillian...

    Cobalt wrote:
    and that is the reason why she cant let any chance to talk her over to her side passing by?


    Interesting theory.

    I keep going back to that original scene with Wanda and Jillian, after the interrogation. Wanda acted differently with Jillian than I've seen her act with anyone else, even Parson. She got to vent her frustrations, and actually acted like a human being for a while...

    weird.


    everything makes much more sense in the scheme that way.
    i guess Wanda has gone half the way to madness, when stanley broke her first plan, to get an arcentool and get rid of him.
    The second Time was when Julian let her down for Ansom. This would be the third Time that it could happen and...
    when bounds of magic can be broken by willpower... wanda could likely forget her "duties"

    another Point of view would be...
    If Julian got her own fortelling or know of Wandas

    (sorry for my bad english ^^°)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:34 pm 
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    I wish we saw how those Predictamancy-s were worded when Wanda heard them.

    As in, is Predictamancy more like retro-fitting mancy or can it actually provide some specific details? "You will attune to an arkentool", btw, is specific enough for my standards. (The prediction does describe an event in enough detail to know what counts for the prophecy to be fulfilled and what doesn't; the predicted event is unlikely to happen at all, so even when no timescale is provided it's not the case that you could just wait until it gets true).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:43 pm 
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    Quote:
    Wanda got foretold a bit more than just wielding the pliers...

    something like that she would be with Julian.


    My theory way back when Book One was 3/4 done, was that Wanda wanted to have independence, and so intended to use a firmly controlled Jillian to start a new side or take over a wrecked one; Install a submissive Jill as a figurehead, and Wanda gets to do pretty much as she pleases. Theoretically, that was why Wanda spent so much time with Jillian, and why she needed her alive.

    Of course, I didn't know about the Arkentool prophecy back then, but I still think it's possible that Wanda has some plan or hope for Jillian. The prophecy-thing just might be it. Maybe Jillian too is Fated/expected to play a part in steering Erf towards a new course.

    Thoughts?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:48 pm 
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    Jeivar wrote:
    Quote:
    Wanda got foretold a bit more than just wielding the pliers...

    something like that she would be with Julian.


    My theory way back when Book One was 3/4 done, was that Wanda wanted to have independence, and so intended to use a firmly controlled Jillian to start a new side or take over a wrecked one; Install a submissive Jill as a figurehead, and Wanda gets to do pretty much as she pleases. Theoretically, that was why Wanda spent so much time with Jillian, and why she needed her alive.

    Of course, I didn't know about the Arkentool prophecy back then, but I still think it's possible that Wanda has some plan or hope for Jillian. The prophecy-thing just might be it. Maybe Jillian too is Fated/expected to play a part in steering Erf towards a new course.

    Thoughts?


    hm... the only way i can think of is for wanda to disband and getting hired by julian.
    It would need a huge lot of trust... and i can´t think about how the magic Kingdom would react to her presence there :evil:

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:54 pm 
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    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    As in, is Predictamancy more like retro-fitting mancy or can it actually provide some specific details? "You will attune to an arkentool", btw, is specific enough for my standards. (The prediction does describe an event in enough detail to know what counts for the prophecy to be fulfilled and what doesn't; the predicted event is unlikely to happen at all, so even when no timescale is provided it's not the case that you could just wait until it gets true).

    Even with the lack of a specific timescale, there is still an implicit one (Wanda's lifespan -- even assuming that Erflings don't croak of any cause other than combat, that still means that there is at least one possible circumstance where the prediction is falsified with no "just you wait" loophole).

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:57 pm 
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    Any theory that has Wanda going independent is a bit suspect to me.

    Back when Book 1 ended and Wanda decrypted the RCC, I loudly expressed the expectation that she would break off, somehow, from Stanley. And the right time was then. She didn't, and at the beginning of Book 2 it seemed like bad timing. She already had drawn too much attention to herself, from the Magic Kingdom to the other sides as well.

    She could have left Stanley back at book 1 and claimed innocence, plus she could have delivered the Tool's head. Now though, she's not seen as clean at all. And turning would piss off a now reasonably powerful Stanley.

    Why would the timing be right, now? I'm not saying it can't be, I'm just asking.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:00 pm 
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    SteveMB wrote:
    Even with the lack of a specific timescale, there is still an implicit one (Wanda's lifespan -- even assuming that Erflings don't croak of any cause other than combat, that still means that there is at least one possible circumstance where the prediction is falsified with no "just you wait" loophole).


    True that. I added the bit about "unlikely event compensates for lack of specific timescale bit" to differentiate between prophecies like "you will croak" (wow, really) and "you will become Queen B--- of the Universe" (wow, really?!). The first will happen, just you wait. The second has, at face value, a very good chance of never happening.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:04 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    PlotArmour wrote:
    PlotArmour wrote:
    Why did Jillian revert to barbarianism when Banhammer died?

    Because all of her sides cities fell and were razed.


    This is what I've been thinking for awhile. Everyone has been assuming that if the leader dies, the side goes barbarian even if there's an heir, provided they're not in the city. But that would mean that there was little value in having an heir unless you kept your heir at home all the time, negating their use as a valuable and powerful warlord. I think that if a leader simply dies, then their heir becomes King/Queen/Overlord, but if the leader dies and the capital is lost/sacked, then it's treated as the fall of a side.

    Let's look at the three known examples we have of the loss of a leader and barbarianism.

    One is Faq. We know that Banhammer was killed and all three cities were razed. Jillian went barbarian.

    Two is Gobwin Knob. Saline IV was killed, and the city was captured. Stanley went barbarian for a turn before he recaptured the city.

    Third is Jetstone. Parson says that killing Slately and burning the city will cause the side to fall, or to convert. We can deduce from what he says to Wanda, asking if that was why she decrypted Ossomer, that that would be the potential cause of a conversion. Presumably if Jetstone doesn't convert when (and if) they killed Slately, Wanda would simply continue burning the city until Tramennis was a barbarian. He and his troops would probably be unaffected at first, but he would be left in a weakened position with little to no money, and would be forced to claim his own capital again and rebuild from scratch. We've seen how hard that was for Jillian, even with massive financial support from Transylvito. And then there's the problem for him of Haggar.

    In every situation where we've seen someone go barbarian or the expectation that they would, it's involved both the killing of the current king and the sacking or capture of the capital.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:06 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Any theory that has Wanda going independent is a bit suspect to me.
    ....
    Why would the timing be right, now? I'm not saying it can't be, I'm just asking.


    Because now she can take Jillian with her. This is Wanda's turn to say "I'm not just a power-crazed cold-blooded ruthless manipulator. I also care about one or two people."

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:08 pm 
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    i cant belief that Wanda wants independence either.
    Its more like she clings to the thought of a higher fate and ignores reason when she thinks: "that is the way to my fate!"
    She likes to go the short way and fate is fooling her agine and agine.
    even her Hair shows how frustrating that can be :roll:
    is it only me who thinks that her outfit becomes a lot more crazy with each time she gets bumped by her misjudgement?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:12 pm 
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    Adama wrote:
    Two is Gobwin Knob. Saline IV was killed, and the city was captured. Stanley went barbarian for a turn before he recaptured the city.


    We don't know that Stanley went Barbarian. It could be that GK's capital moved to another city, or it could be that the Capital is just needed for some administrative activities and a side can continue (in a crippled fashion) if their Capital gets nicked.

    You also forgot about Unaroyal. They didn't lose their capital, they lost their ruler. Once Queen Bea was disbanded, they had no heir, so all field units disbanded and all cities went neutral.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:15 pm 
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    asparagus wrote:
    Because now she can take Jillian with her. This is Wanda's turn to say "I'm not just a power-crazed cold-blooded ruthless manipulator. I also care about one or two people."


    I'm not just a ruthless serial killer, look at my petunias! Yes the pots are big why do you ask? :P

    Well, IF Wanda couldn't start a side on her own (and decrypted Ansom couldn't have helped, probably he had lost heir status) at the end of Book 1, that would certainly make sense. (If she could have started her own side she could have gone looking for Jillian at her leisure anyway).

    So that's a satisfying answer.

    Cobalt wrote:
    even her Hair shows how frustrating that can be :roll:
    is it only me who thinks that her outfit becomes a lot more crazy with each time she gets bumped by her misjudgement?


    It's been speculated, by people in tinfoil hats like me, that her recent appearance is a ploy to sour the fan reaction to her, in preparation for her croaking.

    Though, noticing that some juice is left in the Foolamancer, it will not be Wanda that gets the stabbity on the next page.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:19 pm 
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    For those interested in discussing "side theory," I started a thread for just that purpose. Feel free to join in.

    viewtopic.php?f=12&t=983

    I propose that a side needs two things: A ruler and capital. Without these two things, you don't have a side. The greatest ambiguity comes from what happens to a side that looses its capital without loosing its ruler.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:23 pm 
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    I don't really feel bothered about Wanda's new look (am I the only one?), but the combination of Natural Signamancy and her sense of fashion is interesting.

    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    BCCroaker wrote:
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    You have a pumpkin. :)


    And without consideration of staying on topic, I will just say this =>
    You're quite certain there has never been, and never will be, a pumpkin in this forum!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 15
     Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:28 pm 
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    regarding Wandas Loyality... i found something very interesting back there ^^

    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F095.jpg

    guess now its Wandas turn to tell her she choose the wrong side for alliance

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