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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:41 pm 
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multilis wrote:
If you don't believe in "monkey see monkey do", then is it ok for someone to promote nazi style mass murder, simulated child porn, etc only as "entertainment"? If dying is a calling/good, then Nazi gas chamber may be a holy temple for some.

Right. Now Rob is a Nazi pedophile. Multilis, you really should learn when to shut up.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:50 pm 
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    multilis wrote:
    Gez wrote:
    multilis wrote:
    In one stroke may in minds of less stable glorify suicide and suicide attacks. For example Marc Lepine apparently learned much about joys of dying on the internet before killing 14 people in montreal and killing himself. He felt "dying was a call".

    No, he felt that women had to stay in the kitchen and make sammiches, and his own words were that he was "fighting feminism". Internet played no role in his madness, you'd have better luck looking at a mental instability he had since early childhood. Don't spout stupid bullshit like that. You're practically blaming Rob for the acts a loony did ten years ago.

    I am not blaming Rob for him but suggesting not to glorify "dying". The lady apparently killed herself by sticking her head in an oven and turning on the gas, her children lost a mother.

    "Internet played no role in his madness... Don't spout stupid bullshit like that."

    It is very open common knowledge that Mark Lebine and several others like him (eg Kimveer Gill, if you want I can give a longer list) were very heavy into Gothic web sites that promoted dying and was very vocal/public about his opinions on chat sites, including about dying being his calling (there is at least one documentary that goes into details). (Part of fallout is some calling for monitoring internet for signs of people like him)

    If you don't believe in "monkey see monkey do", then is it ok for someone to promote nazi style mass murder, simulated child porn, etc only as "entertainment"? If dying is a calling/good, then Nazi gas chamber may be a holy temple for some.

    Considering that the referenced massacre happened in 1989, several years before the web actually started to catch on, I'd love to see you cite a source for this.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:06 pm 
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    Gez wrote:
    multilis wrote:
    If you don't believe in "monkey see monkey do", then is it ok for someone to promote nazi style mass murder, simulated child porn, etc only as "entertainment"? If dying is a calling/good, then Nazi gas chamber may be a holy temple for some.

    Right. Now Rob is a Nazi pedophile. Multilis, you really should learn when to shut up.


    I'm sorry, I've got to step in here. No, I don't agree with Multilis. But disagreeing with the basic "Monkey see, monkey do" principal is just complete nonsense. I would have agreed with you totally, if you hadn't decided to argue against this one point. When people see that things are generally accepted and acceptable, they do them. Now obviously this doesn't work ALL the time. If the thing in question is in a fictional book or story, for instance, or if the people doing it are obviously evil, stupid, or some other quality that would excuse them from bad behavior; however, the "Monkey see, monkey do" concept is basically the whole foundation of the parenting system, and the social education system, and basically most other teaching systems.

    (P.S. After re-reading what you said a couple of times, I realize that I MIGHT be totally missing what you're trying to say. If so, sorry.)

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:11 pm 
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    THough I thought the poem was awful, may I still present an alternative interpretation?

    I propose that the poem is not just chanelling Lady Lazarus (best take on the name), but the author as well. No, I'm not suggesting the author desires death for himself. I think he wants to kill off "Scarlet." By rights, she should have faced the same end as Duke Nozzle. However, since she became such a fan favorite, he can't find a way to just end her. Hence, she keeps coming back "from the dead."

    Of course, thats just one theme of many shoved into a parody poem. Hence, shout outs to the foum fans (which are probably just a small number of actual readers).

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:47 pm 
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    throwingrocks wrote:
    Considering that the referenced massacre happened in 1989, several years before the web actually started to catch on, I'd love to see you cite a source for this.



    But... I saw it on Fox News....

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:25 pm 
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    Lord Kasavin wrote:
    No, I'm not suggesting the author desires death for himself. I think he wants to kill off "Scarlet." By rights, she should have faced the same end as Duke Nozzle. However, since she became such a fan favorite, he can't find a way to just end her. Hence, she keeps coming back "from the dead."


    Maybe, but... naaah. I can't say if Rob wants to kill Sylvia off or not, but he's definitely not the kind to let fan reactions coerce him into something he doesn't want. I've seen huge numbers of fans fulminating over "Ansom's plot armor", or criticizing various plot holes, and Rob never flinched.

    I think he's just positively surprised that a minor character attracted so much interest from the fans.

    I do like to think that our continuing support of "Scarlet" had a hand in her unexpected comeback and development. The "misname me to breathing again" line seems to suggest this.

    And we don't know that Duke Nozzle can't come back either. Who knows? He might.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:41 pm 
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    So wait; Scarlett was never actually that characters name? Someone just started calling her that because of her red hair? Oh well, that's a pretty cool real-world reference Rob came up with for her name. And thanks to the people who posted links to explain the reference for those of us who haven't read a lot of poetry.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:55 pm 
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    YesNinja wrote:
    I'm sorry, I've got to step in here. No, I don't agree with Multilis. But disagreeing with the basic "Monkey see, monkey do" principal is just complete nonsense. I would have agreed with you totally, if you hadn't decided to argue against this one point. When people see that things are generally accepted and acceptable, they do them. Now obviously this doesn't work ALL the time. If the thing in question is in a fictional book or story, for instance, or if the people doing it are obviously evil, stupid, or some other quality that would excuse them from bad behavior; however, the "Monkey see, monkey do" concept is basically the whole foundation of the parenting system, and the social education system, and basically most other teaching systems.

    Well, yes -- when educating people who are too immature to have formed the ability to figure out how to separate good ideas from bad ones for themselves (i.e. small children and people with serious developmental problems). I don't think this is Rob's target audience.

    As for people who do have that ability, it needs to be practiced or it atrophies, just like any other physical or mental training. Trying to shut out "dangerous" ideas is the mental equivalent of trying to live in a sterile plastic bubble -- it's not healthy, and eventually ends up degrading the ability to function in the real world.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:03 pm 
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    Wait does that mean that she was the heir that was killed after being decrypted? From that text update that leads to Don King being given information that the decrypted can be destroyed forever because Wanda didn't raise said heir again straight away.

    If the reason she wasn't brought back straight away isn't linked to problems with resurrecting the decrypted again then Erfworld will have an even harder time with them. Truly those pliers are the tool of Gods.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:21 pm 
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    Tool of the titans. I don't know what a god is. And no, Scarlet is not the heir of Unaroyal.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:32 pm 
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    So she's just a warlord then. Still interesting.

    Also Titan's are gods even if dwagons aren't dragons

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:46 pm 
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    Rowen wrote:
    Also Titan's are gods even if dwagons aren't dragons


    Not if you know any Greek Mythology, The gods fought, and defeated the Titans, Maybe on Erfworld it was the other way round !

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:46 pm 
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    If you know anything about Greek mythology then no, they are totally different.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:50 pm 
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    Very nice, and a warrior poet to boot. And now I wonder if she has composed one yet telling of her croaking of Oss and the level that gave her. Taking her to level six - hmmm, the same level as Duncan Scone. Coincidence? I think NOT! (Unless it is).

    The reworking of the poem for the setting was also well done (also nice to see in the head of another Decrypted. Interesting). Though it does seem rather ominous...

    Great name too. I guess we know where she is (relatively) in the dwagon formation, only a red is fit for Sylvia Lazarus.

    Rowen wrote:
    Wait does that mean that she was the heir that was killed after being decrypted? From that text update that leads to Don King being given information that the decrypted can be destroyed forever because Wanda didn't raise said heir again straight away.


    No, that was Cruz, Queen Bea's daughter/heir. She had been decrypted and Bea managed to have her dusted shortly before ending Unaroyal. This is Sylvia Lazarus, aka Scarlet from book one, slayer of Oss. She died when the volcano erupted and Wanda decrypted her afterwards (like much of the RCCI).

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:52 pm 
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    SNAP!

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:39 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    That was a nice update, go out of New Year's get two new comics! Nice to see such a fan favorite get her real name reviled. Now I wonder how the whole battle is going to end up.

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     Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:45 pm 
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    Sorry. Didn't like the original very much and the parody feels clumsy and forced. Still, good to have some more information.

    Wonder if her fate would have been different if she hadn't been named Lazarus.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:15 am 
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    throwingrocks wrote:
    Considering that the referenced massacre happened in 1989, several years before the web actually started to catch on, I'd love to see you cite a source for this.


    Yeah. I think the popular opinion was he did it because he hated women, since he for the most part murdered women, and said he hated the female students for being feminists (even though they weren't). I wonder how we got so off topic.

    Snowtitan "Not if you know any Greek Mythology, The gods fought, and defeated the Titans, Maybe on Erfworld it was the other way round !"

    From the original poem, Titans replaces God, and Lucifer replaces fate at the end. And, incidentally, the Titans were gods. Elder gods. Which the younger gods replaced. They're probably just called that because they look more like big, titanic beings than gods.

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:28 am 
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    Ninjaguineapig wrote:
    Scarlet got named! She will rule Erfworld! Anyway, besides the great poem, this goes a bit further into the workings of the mind of a decrypted (warlord).


    I was thinking that this shows that decrypted really are "alive" - they aren't shambling zombies like uncroaked, they really are "individuals" - with the "basic programming" of doing whatever Wanda wants (sort of like how Robocop had to obey his (including secret) directives? or the asimov laws of robotics?)

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     Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:40 am 
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    Snowtitan wrote:
    Rowen wrote:
    Also Titan's are gods even if dwagons aren't dragons


    Not if you know any Greek Mythology, The gods fought, and defeated the Titans, Maybe on Erfworld it was the other way round !


    Like in Warcraft!

    Yes, I went there.

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