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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Kosher Tigger wrote:
I can't see any of the attuned Tools being croaked. I think that Stanley really is like a hammer, blunt and with only one purpose: to smash things. He's perfectly suited to it.

Similarly Wanda is like a set of pliers. She grabs things and twists them. She grasps tightly and she manipulates.

I have to think more about the nature of a dish, but what I've got so far is that it makes things more convenient. There's something about 'service' that I can't wrap my thoughts around as well. It spreads things out and yet provides a container for them so that you can see everything at once... it keeps things cleaner than they might be directly in your hands or on some other surface.


Hammers can build things though, by nailing them together. Maybe Stanley can nail together the world.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:07 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    Kosher Tigger wrote:
    I think that very soon now, Wanda will turn and name one of the newly conquered cities as her new capital. GK will be surrounded by a new Side set to swallow them up. This disaster in the making may or may not be purposeful on Wanda's part depending on whether she can decrypt in the middle of battle or anly afterwards.

    So far I think only warlords (and royalty type warlords) have become rulers or heirs. So maybe casters can't take over or become a side. Wanda has so far been content to manipulate Stanley and hasn't tried to get herself named heir.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:12 pm 
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    BCCroaker wrote:
    So far I think only warlords (and royalty type warlords) have become rulers or heirs.


    If only royals can become rulers and heirs, where did Stanley and Charlie come from?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:13 pm 
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    I think y'all are missing the point. Now, obviously, at some point Wanda's going to want to run her own show and not do this all from behind the scenes. Converting Slately or Jillian will tell her if turning a ruler turns the whole side. If it does, I wouldn't want to be in Stanley's boots. (Although there is that complicated matter of the croaking before the turning. Maybe she'll start a new side and then croak 'im.)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:25 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool This user is a part of Erfworld canon! Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit Erfworld Bicycle® Playing Cards supporter
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    I didn't say royals - I said warlords and Stanley was a warlord when he was named heir. Charlie isn't a side as such but a mercernary.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:32 pm 
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    Kizmet wrote:
    Prediction...
    4) Assassination attempt shortly after in GK (probably by masses of decrypted Hobgobwins hiding under GK)

    An elaboration on one of Kizmet's points

    I still think Charlie’s main attack is going to be at Gobwin’s Knob itself. Before anything else let me say I agree that GK is too strong for any surprise military attack to take it at the moment. However we have the missing Gobwins and overabundant Marbits thing. It was also indicated that something nefarious happened around the time of Stanley’s accession to the throne. Let’s suppose that Charlie orchestrated it. Part of Charlie’s argument to Jillian was that he had a way to make Stanley dead, which is what she wanted. Charlie can also turn natural allies. So Charlie has assets in GK and possibly hidden Archons nearby. While this battle is going on Stanley will be in a known location within GK (the war room). So consider the possibility of a hit. Just kill Stanley and the whole GK side falls apart, I think was said in the summer updates.
    I know this is a bit of a stretch and Stanley dead would really change the story (no Tool?), but the attempt may well be made; leading to fairly major plot developments.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:36 pm 
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    BCCroaker wrote:
    I didn't say royals - I said warlords and Stanley was a warlord when he was named heir. Charlie isn't a side as such but a mercernary.


    The jury is still out on this; we don't have enough information yet to know for sure one way or the other.

    If your speculation proves to be true, then Wanda can still get around the rules as she has warlords under her control. So the warlord would be controlling the side, but she would be controlling the warlord. And if the entire side was decrypted it would be a moot point anyway (as far as leadership goes) as she'd be controlling everyone regardless of the technicalities normally associated with the chain of command. She would supercede all of them.

    But if being a warlord is a requirement for leading a side, that would certainly add an interesting element to things.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:39 pm 
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    The Old Hack wrote:
    raphfrk wrote:
    Also, if she is a mercenary, then it is unclear who the decrypted actually belong to. When allied with a side, presumably that side will cover upkeep. If that is the case, then if Wanda breaks alliance, then she would have to cover the upkeep for the decrypted army from her purse, which would likely be impossible.


    Err, I might massively have misinterpreted panel 2 in this comic, but I thought Decrypted had zero upkeep?


    Oh yeah :), forgot about that.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:43 pm 
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    I'm not too worried about Stanley... he's got Parson. And a *whole lotta* dwagons (thanks to Parson.)

    I think that Casters count as Warlords for all purposes, it's just that people don't use them like that because everyone wants the highest leadership bonuses possible and casters (being harder to replace) are too valuable to risk leading armies.

    Good point about hammers nailing things together... Stanley does unite people in their loathing of him..... and might inspire others by the magnitude of his power.

    Maybe Wanda can just go barbarian and pay for her own upkeep by conquering. I'm reminded of Ansom's statement when he was newly decrypted: something about conquering the entire world. I don't think that was any personal desire of his, I think that was Wanda's desire coming through his mouth clumsily since she was new to having direct command of free thinking units.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:10 pm 
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    BCCroaker wrote:
    So Charlie has assets in GK and possibly hidden Archons nearby.


    Units cannot cross city sub-zone boundaries on another side's turn. The archons would have to be hidden in the tower itself, in order to be able to reach the war-room, during GK's turn.

    The hobgobwins are there, and are used as Stanley's main guard (as he doesn't trust the decrypted). However, Vurp is very loyal to Stanley. He believes that the reason his tribe is strong is because they didn't desert Stanley when the situation was obviously hopeless. Ofc, the dish might allow Charlie to overwhelm even that level of loyalty.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:25 pm 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    There is presumably some mechanic that prevented a single side ruling the world up to this point.


    It's probably a combination of upkeep issues and the possibility of getting stabbed from behind while your main force is out abroad (like Haggar and Carpool beginning to threaten formerly dominant sides).

    Gobwin Knob is one of the richest sides in Erfworld currently, not to mention that its decrypted units require none. The units they are paying upkeep for can keep their borders safe while Wanda refills her army on the go. So if that's the case, Gobwin Knob could do it, assuming it can beat the RCC2 and Charlie.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:06 pm 
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    charlie cannot have any units nearby (veiled or otherwise) because the battlespace around GK is constantly explored and watched for just that purpose (and to find new dwagons.)

    Charlie lost units just for trying to (ostensibly) pass by as a shortcut on his way somewhere else.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:42 pm 
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    raphfrk wrote:
    BCCroaker wrote:
    So Charlie has assets in GK and possibly hidden Archons nearby.


    Units cannot cross city sub-zone boundaries on another side's turn. The archons would have to be hidden in the tower itself, in order to be able to reach the war-room, during GK's turn.

    The hobgobwins are there, and are used as Stanley's main guard (as he doesn't trust the decrypted). However, Vurp is very loyal to Stanley. He believes that the reason his tribe is strong is because they didn't desert Stanley when the situation was obviously hopeless. Ofc, the dish might allow Charlie to overwhelm even that level of loyalty.


    I think that BCCroaker meant that the attack might take place on Charlie's next Turn, whenever that might be. Actually infiltrating GK itself seems rather chancy to me as we know Archons, Warlords and/or a Foolamancer may penetrate another Archon's veil. Even so, while a sneak attack on GK aimed at taking out Parson and Stanley in one fell swoop might be in the offing, a far more exact stroke and easier to accomplish would be a surgical capture attempt aimed at Parson himself. Of all other Erfworlders, Charlie alone knows how dangerous Parson is, and getting control of him has been one of Charlie's aims ever since Parson first made contact with him. Once snatched and dragged off to Charlescomm, Charlie can then work on turning Parson at his leisure. And now that Wanda has just snatched Ossomer in precisely this way, I hope Parson is on his guard -- of all his enemies, Charlie strikes me as the one most likely to learn from his tricks...

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:00 pm 
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    Kosher Tigger wrote:
    I think that Casters count as Warlords for all purposes, it's just that people don't use them like that because everyone wants the highest leadership bonuses possible and casters (being harder to replace) are too valuable to risk leading armies.


    They are known to not have leadership scores at all. That's one difference. It might or might not be the only difference aside from casting.

    They apparently stop having the leadership special when uncroaked, going by the klog.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:12 pm 
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    That's odd... Ansom gets to called Wanda Mistress, but Ossomer doesn't? What does Wanda see as the difference?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:16 pm 
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    PlotArmour wrote:
    I certainly couldn't see Stanley losing control of a Dwagon.
    What about a decryted dwagon? Wanda mentioned that decrypted units belong to her, not Gobwin Knob.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:26 pm 
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    Krennson wrote:
    That's odd... Ansom gets to called Wanda Mistress, but Ossomer doesn't? What does Wanda see as the difference?
    She has feelings for Ansom.

    Or maybe with Jillian around, she doesn't want anybody else calling her "mistress".

    And awesome update. Demonstrates the decrypted are WANDA'S units, not GK's, and that Wanda's control is powerful but not absolute.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:38 pm 
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    HailGreen28 wrote:
    Krennson wrote:
    That's odd... Ansom gets to called Wanda Mistress, but Ossomer doesn't? What does Wanda see as the difference?
    She has feelings for Ansom.

    Or maybe with Jillian around, she doesn't want anybody else calling her "mistress".

    And awesome update. Demonstrates the decrypted are WANDA'S units, not GK's, and that Wanda's control is powerful but not absolute.


    no, JILLIAN has feelings for ansom. wanda doesn't, as far as i know

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:47 pm 
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    Krennson wrote:
    That's odd... Ansom gets to called Wanda Mistress, but Ossomer doesn't? What does Wanda see as the difference?

    Ossomer never inspired so strong a love in one of Wanda's puppet that it broke Wanda's mind-control spell and, through the resulting backlash, Wanda's mind as well.

    Jillian "betrayed" Wanda so as to be Ansom's mistress. Now it's Wanda who is Ansom's mistress, and she savors this revenge immensely. She doesn't care about Ossomer at all; he's just another pet. And she only cares about Ansom as far as she can make him suffer, out of sheer pettiness.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 14
     Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:52 pm 
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    gathro wrote:
    PlotArmour wrote:
    I certainly couldn't see Stanley losing control of a Dwagon.
    What about a decryted dwagon? Wanda mentioned that decrypted units belong to her, not Gobwin Knob.


    Also, what would happen if Stanley hit a decrypted dwagon :). I think the hammer should win, since the dwagon is the hammer's special unit. OTOH, Charlie doesn't seem to have the power to turn archons (or maybe he does :) ).

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