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 Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:43 am 
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I highly doubt it. And any unit that's popped up fully-formed and with its equipment cannot be considered an Earthworlder anyway.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:20 pm 
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    Personally, I don't think Charlie would have needed to be hired in this situation. We know that Charlie looks to incite conflict wherever possible, right? He may have consulted a Predictamancer, or even used his own intuition, to determine that toppling Saline IV would spark off a massive conflict that would eventually result in large profits for him as groups sought his services. Thus, I think it's quite possible Charlie could have simply acted unilaterally here out of his own interests.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:35 pm 
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    Gez wrote:
    I highly doubt it. And any unit that's popped up fully-formed and with its equipment cannot be considered an Earthworlder anyway.


    May be it would be a "fully formed baby" with a "growth special". Stanley would be really disappointed. If it had a "cute" special it might be a sort of hippiemancer secret weapon.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:51 pm 
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    I just want to drop in my own little secular commentary. I /really/ adore the artwork on this one. The look on Parson's face is very readable and convincing. It is rare that illustrated faces express the complexity of emotions seen in that picture instead of just one obvious emotion. Very well done.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:52 pm 
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    Hi. Just signed up to say I really liked this update. The in-character writing was quite clever and neatly painted the basics of Vurp's character, along with some details like his inability to count over ten. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Vurp at all.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:06 pm 
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    asparagus wrote:
    Gez wrote:
    I highly doubt it. And any unit that's popped up fully-formed and with its equipment cannot be considered an Earthworlder anyway.


    May be it would be a "fully formed baby" with a "growth special". Stanley would be really disappointed. If it had a "cute" special it might be a sort of hippiemancer secret weapon.


    Until the baby got murdered by someone who didn't care.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:13 pm 
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    asparagus wrote:
    Gez wrote:
    I highly doubt it. And any unit that's popped up fully-formed and with its equipment cannot be considered an Earthworlder anyway.


    May be it would be a "fully formed baby" with a "growth special". Stanley would be really disappointed. If it had a "cute" special it might be a sort of hippiemancer secret weapon.

    That would be stupid. A unit that needs 5000 turns before it might even start to be useful? That, in the meantime, monopolizes the attention of a more valuable unit? That might croak at any moment for nonsensical reasons such as it decided to sleep on its face? That cannot eat its own rations? That spends its time making horrible noises, but doesn't even speak?

    Also, why would GK get the possibility to pop such useless units? Because he's got Parson? Erfworld doesn't work this way. Parson isn't a natural ally. That's like saying he could pop members of the Croatan tribe because he's got Wanda and Jack. No, no, no. He's a plaid, if he pops men he pops Plaid tribesmen.

    Finally, a "Parson's presence turns Erfworld into a copy of Earth" wouldn't make a lot of sense IMO.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:17 pm 
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    Gez wrote:
    ... Erfworld doesn't work this way. Parson isn't a natural ally...

    How do we know that?

    IMO all we know is Parson is "special", if its possible he could be a hippy/math mancer then possible until stated otherwise he could count as natural ally. (Every turn his upkeep is paid just like a natural ally, no one has tried throwing more money at him. Since his stats are not visible, not obvious one way or other to others what he is)

    *IF* he was a natural ally by some surprise story twist, then I would expect popping more may pop his friends from earth which would make for very strange moral dilemmas. Parson would then be responsible for "real" humans survival and likely motivated to try and stop more earthworlders from being sucked into the Erfworld life threatening black hole.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:18 pm 
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    multilis wrote:
    Gez wrote:
    ... Erfworld doesn't work this way. Parson isn't a natural ally...

    How do we know that?

    The same way we know Parson isn't a farm? The same way we know Parson isn't a magic hat? The same way we know Parson isn't a mount? That is to say, common sense?

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:12 pm 
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    Sixty wrote:
    Like someone mentioned earlier, if the special mission that Stanley was on when the gobwins and hobgobwins turned was to attack FAQ then at that point he was Chief Warlord (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079.jpg) and possibly the Heir Designate. If Wanda did engineer it then she might have gone into it thinking that she was gonna cause Stanley to disband. That depends on her not knowing Stanley was the heir which we don't know.


    Possibly. It could also have happened immediately after Faq was taken, once Wanda met and got a gauge of Stanley's character. Wanda can cast Suggestion spells, and she might even be able to cast her own Thinkagrams (if necessary) to deal with the Hobgobwin chief.

    Oh, one more thing about lying to your own side that I noticed while rereading something else: Duty only applies to commanders, and Duty is what is responsible for not withholding information and not plotting against your leaders. Common units don't have Duty, though they have Obedience. If common units don't even have a responsibility not to lie and withhold info without an order, then natural allies shouldn't either.

    Sokrotes wrote:
    They no longer make men, yet Stanley is from the Plaid tribe of men. My question is, why did Stanley stop making men?


    He didn't. Level 1 cities pop infantry, and Level 2 cities pop warlords, according to Sizemore.
    (My question is, "What does it even means to be from a tribe given how units pop?")

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:14 pm 
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    multilis wrote:
    (Every turn his upkeep is paid just like a natural ally,


    Every turn his upkeep is paid, like *all* erfworld units, not just natural allies. There has been, I believe, nothing anywhere that indicates that he's a natural ally rather than a GK unit.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:53 pm 
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    If parson was a natural ally, then he would have been poppable after a technological upgrade, if not from the beginning. This was a one-time scroll, ergo, he can't be a natural ally. Plus, the scroll forces Parson to ally, it's hardly a natural coincidence of interests that a natural ally would have.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:47 pm 
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    Suggestion: break alliance with the hobgobwins and let them capture and turn Parson. Then re-ally and give the hobgobwins some schmuckers to pop many more Parsons. :)

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:01 pm 
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    For the debate on timing (i.e. when the Gobwins turned on Saline IV and made Stanley ruler), this comic seems relevant:
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079.jpg
    The green dwagon rider in panel seven looks a lot like Wanda.

    The subsequent comic, http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079a.jpg is also interesting. It says that natural allies have their own treasuries: an inconsistency? Parson gets his information from Sizemore, who could be wrong, although Vurp says that Warlords, at least, "should know" that "Tribes have no purse and keep no Schmuckers."

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:22 pm 
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    Now that I think about it, what the special mission was may have some future relevance. It really had to have been something big to send casters in.

    Also that all the important people were gone makes it seem like the special mission may have been orchestrated. Similar to how Jillian was absent when Faq was destroyed.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:37 pm 
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    fractal wrote:
    For the debate on timing (i.e. when the Gobwins turned on Saline IV and made Stanley ruler), this comic seems relevant:
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079.jpg
    The green dwagon rider in panel seven looks a lot like Wanda.

    The subsequent comic, http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079a.jpg is also interesting. It says that natural allies have their own treasuries: an inconsistency? Parson gets his information from Sizemore, who could be wrong, although Vurp says that Warlords, at least, "should know" that "Tribes have no purse and keep no Schmuckers."


    That's from Parson's klog. Parson could simply have been wrong on terminology.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:57 pm 
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    noxharrington wrote:

    But, moreover, this is a DEEPLY crappy situation for Tribes. If they find a gem, they must spend all of the shmuckers it yields immediately. So, if they find a gem that's worth enough to keep them fed for twenty turns, they would need to pop enough food for their current population and however many other units they could afford - and then have nothing with which to feed those units on the next turn. They would need to find a gem every turn - and, preferrably, not one that was too valuable, or they'd end up with an unsustainable population.



    Not true. We already know you can have more rations than just 1 turns worth, Jillian mentioned during the summer updates having enough for x turns, but deciding to hunt for food while she could to preserve her rations.

    Following that logic, natural allies could choose to use the money to produce extra food. The rations have to be popped next turn, doesn't say it has to be consumed... Also, they can pop equipment.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:39 pm 
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    fractal wrote:
    For the debate on timing (i.e. when the Gobwins turned on Saline IV and made Stanley ruler), this comic seems relevant:
    http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079.jpg
    The green dwagon rider in panel seven looks a lot like Wanda.

    The subsequent comic, http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079a.jpg is also interesting. It says that natural allies have their own treasuries: an inconsistency? Parson gets his information from Sizemore, who could be wrong, although Vurp says that Warlords, at least, "should know" that "Tribes have no purse and keep no Schmuckers."


    A store room filled with gems and possibly rands could certainly be called a treasury.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:57 pm 
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    GobwinPie wrote:
    Interesting update.
    1) What is Vurp feeling bad about at first? Lying to Parson or what his side did?


    He felt guilty of lying to him, because: "Vurp had one feeling about lying to him. That feeling was this: “guilt.”"

    It's obvious something (very) "unethical" was done to Saline, and likely Vurp (and others) were given some kind of "If you talk of what happened here you will be disbanded immediately" kind of order. Stanley probably gave this order, either personally or via Wanda to cover up the dirty laundry.

    I doubt Vurp felt guilty of what he did back when he did it, as he was just following orders. Does he now feel bad about what he did? Considering that Vurp has now been touched by the "self-respect renaissance" Hamster effects in people nowadays, my sources say yes.

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     Post Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:43 pm 
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    crazyguy_co wrote:
    We already know you can have more rations than just 1 turns worth, Jillian mentioned during the summer updates having enough for x turns, but deciding to hunt for food while she could to preserve her rations.

    Following that logic, natural allies could choose to use the money to produce extra food. The rations have to be popped next turn, doesn't say it has to be consumed... Also, they can pop equipment.


    Ah, thank you, I didn't catch this. So, though rations CAN pop at the beginning of each turn, you can pop... well, as much as you can afford, and just keep it? Maybe it will "go bad" eventually, but we haven't heard about that?

    That makes the Tribes' situation MUCH more tenable. Thank you, crazyguy_co.

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