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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:59 am 
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My theory. Don King has hired Charlie from the beginning. All Jillian/Charlie interaction was actually Don's manipulation. Don's building up Faq cities and a Faq heir, because he intends to use them somehow, possibly as a buffer from Stanley, post-Wanda. He possibly knows about the Jillian/Wanda relationship, and is going to use it to target and defeat Wanda specifically, which will instantly destroy or negate all the Decrypted. The more of the RCC that gets destroyed in the process, the better, as Don King intends to mop up afterwards.

If he plays this intelligently, he should never, ever reveal his true purposes. Anything that doesn't happen naturally should be patiently tolerated, until the final coup de grace can be administered in privacy.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:01 am 
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    Glenn wrote:
    Their reaction may not be just to Ossomer being captured. At the end of this update, an hour has past since the battle started. Did it really take an hour to capture Ossomer? I'd say it's probably been closer to ten minutes. If I'm right, what's Gobwin Knob done to shock Transylvito in the fifty or so minutes since they captured Ossomer?


    It's doubly interesting as if the prediction Janis got is right GK plans should be taking on a slightly pear shape in the near future. I guess there is a perfectly good chance GK can be going good before something bad happens to them. Especially if something happened to Wanda or Ansom

    It got me thinking - now that we witnessed the capture of Oss from a very large force by a very small force of well chosen experts I wonder if Jillian and Charlie are planning something like that (along with mystery caster) - Wanda maybe.

    Firkraag wrote:
    Hmm... Transylvito really invested a lot in Faq. I wonder how that is going to work out for them.


    I guess if Jillian plays a major part in putting a kink in GKs immediate plans it will have worked out very well for them.

    Quote:
    At least they haven't committed much of their remaining army in this coming fight


    Well, we can't blame them for that yet. Jetstone seems to be in charge of the RCCII and so far only three of its members (Jetstone, Faq and Haggar) have been gathered in one place. Why they didn't invite TV to that party is anyones guess.

    Markidactyl wrote:
    Huh. So the plan was always to retreat the princes back to the city. They were there only for the parlay, I guess? Either way, the fact that none of them expected trickery on Gobwin's part was still a bit thick. Ossomar, despite what he says, thinks too much like Ansom. Now he's captured, converted, and Gobwin Knob knows probably the whole game plan, and the force at the bridge very unlikely to hold against anything but the bottleneck they had planned.


    I think the princes where there to give the Jetstone forces at the bridge the leadership needed to hold up the GK doom force long enough for the other stuff to get into place (hold them on GKs turn, then the princes can return to the capital, bring up the Haggar forces etc).

    And really Oss was right when it came to Ansom. It was Wanda that was his undoing.

    Quote:
    Annddddd...Don King and Bunny? That girl gets around.


    I don't think there was anything in the update about Bunny and Don having a thing - it was from Caeser's POV.

    badninja wrote:
    Wow that was fast. From Janis's earlier statements I felt that GK was going to have a difficult time. From what we see happening GK is once again steamrolling again. I take it Jillian was not successful in her mission or GK took out the support troops.


    Or the bad stuff hasn't happened yet. The course of the battle could change if something happened to Wanda or Ansom, or if Wanda does something silly. Maybe Jillian is counting on that.

    I'm not sure we can say Jillian wasn't successful. I was under the impression she hadn't done whatever it was she was planning to do yet.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:27 am 
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    Oh, Caesar. Time for you to choose between your people and your leader.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:35 am 
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    Dancing Cthulhu wrote:

    But it does make me wonder - we know:

    A. Jillian has been working with Charlie
    B. Jillian has kept the fact from TV and thus the RCCII as a whole.
    C. Jillian didn't tell Vinnie what she was actually going off to do, so I guess the rest of the RCCII doesn't know her or Charlie's real plan (whatever it is) either
    D.... So is she in the Jetstone capital under false pretenses? Do Don King and Slately think she is doing one thing while she is actually preparing for something else entirely?


    Titans' Tonsils! Could she be planning to backstab the RCC by taking the capital herself?

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:39 am 
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    yay wrote:
    from the phrase "haggars massive reserves"


    Sounds like a good name for a dark beer.

    Quote:
    i assume the back up stack half a turns march away is tougher than the one on the bridge, or at least as tough...wonder if they commited some casters too. also, haggars loyalty was based on Ossemers threats. so now that jetstone is disoriented, will they break the truce and go for the poorly defended capitol?


    Ooh, yet another intriguing possibility.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:49 am 
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    I'm pretty sure Don King doesn't like Jillian, and is only using her to get a suitable heir.
    Here's my reasoning:

    A. Jillian is only popping warrior style warlords because that is what she truly wants, even though she is actually trying to pop a caster.
    B. When King Banhammer popped Jillian, he tried to pop what he truly wanted, but got the opposite.
    C. Don King seems to have recounted some disappointment among his previous attempts at gaining an heir, and I have a feeling he has figured out the mechanics behind it, and has hatched a plan involving Jillian, who seems to be the opposite of what he wants in an heir.

    The plan as I see it, seems to almost be complete, and has a bit of a time limit as well:
    1. He has already made Jillian rebuild FAQ.
    2. He has already limited Jillian's troop production capabilities by making her start to pop an heir, although she managed to acquire some natural allies, gwiffons, and warlords.
    3. He has already stationed what may be most of his troops within FAQ to "protect" it.
    4. He has already upgraded FAQ with his own treasury.
    5. He seems to have put most of Jillian's forces, not to mention Jillian herself, directly in front of a gargantuan, unstoppable army.
    6. Provided Jillian dies in this insanely dangerous battle, Don King will not only already be ready to invade FAQ, his invasion force will already be inside of it, and ready to break alliance at a moments notice. I'm not sure whether he would have to do this before or after Jillian dies, and if Jillian never designated an heir, Don King's forces might be the only things present preventing all of the units from disbanding.

    If Jillian's heir hasn't popped yet before the takeover, I would think Don King would inherit the heir, but his type would be of the opposite type that Jillian would truly want, and have more in common with King Banhammer than Jillian, which just might be what Don King is hoping for...

    Something like that, I know I probably got some mechanics wrong, but I'm pretty sure Don King is trying to get Jillian killed, and to acquire her heir as his own instead. Whatever it is about Don King, I definitely see him as the kind of guy who pits his enemies against each other, and cleans up the mess afterwards... He's a bit of a sneak...

    EDIT: Oh yes, the hippimancer's prediction of chaos and disorder... I am pretty sure there is going to be an entirely new side formed with Ansom as the leader...
    1. Wanda tells Ansom to kill his father
    2. Ansom refuses
    3. Wanda tells Ossomer to kill his father
    4. Ossomer obliges
    5. Ansom gets SUPER pissed, the loyalty part of the decryption spell breaks in Ansom, and the feedback is strong enough to kill Wanda this time, half the decrypted decide to follow Ansom, half decide to follow Ossomer, and the army proceeds to beat the **** out of itself while still fighting the new leader of the Royal Crown Coalition II, your very own magnificent bastard, Tremennous. God I love Tvtropes.com! Go Tremennous go! Am I the only person here that likes him?


    Last edited by Slowness on Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:09 am 
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    Now if I was running the GK faction and I just found out that several of my enemy factions had gathered their forces at the capital I was about to attack (with Dwagon mounted units and Archons as the makeup of my strike force) I's make for a differtent capital. Like one of the ones that they drew unit's from to fortify the one I was striking at originally.

    I know it's not going to happen but changing locals when my attack force probubly has more mobility then theirs is a good plan.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:21 am 
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    hasn't everyone forgotten about the giants?

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:38 am 
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    Quick question, can anybody tell me who's in the picture at the bottom? The text says 5 very sober people, and I see Don, Bunny, and I think that's Ceasar on the left, but who are the other two?

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:15 am 
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    Stormchi wrote:
    Quick question, can anybody tell me who's in the picture at the bottom? The text says 5 very sober people, and I see Don, Bunny, and I think that's Ceasar on the left, but who are the other two?


    From left to rigth: The fat guy is one of the TV warlords, I don't know his name. He was at the battle at the chokepoint with Stanley. The female is Dewy Tulips, a warlord also seen at the battle. She was part of the stack that accompanied Jillian to TV. The female with the rake is a doll.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:20 am 
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    Frogpop wrote:
    Markidactyl wrote:
    Annddddd...Don King and Bunny? That girl gets around.

    Re-read. I think you skipped over a "Caesar". I did my first time through too.


    Yeah, I did too. Reading the reactions got me all confused.
    I didn't imagine the battle would go so easy for GK

    I particularly liked this:
    "Their whole stack /
    was with the Wack /
    from Faq."

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:14 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    My theory. Don King has hired Charlie from the beginning. All Jillian/Charlie interaction was actually Don's manipulation. Don's building up Faq cities and a Faq heir, because he intends to use them somehow, possibly as a buffer from Stanley, post-Wanda. He possibly knows about the Jillian/Wanda relationship, and is going to use it to target and defeat Wanda specifically, which will instantly destroy or negate all the Decrypted. The more of the RCC that gets destroyed in the process, the better, as Don King intends to mop up afterwards.

    If he plays this intelligently, he should never, ever reveal his true purposes. Anything that doesn't happen naturally should be patiently tolerated, until the final coup de grace can be administered in privacy.


    Technically that's a hypothesis.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:36 am 
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    Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
    The fat guy is one of the TV warlords, I don't know his name. He was at the battle at the chokepoint with Stanley.


    I was wondering about this guy and I did recognize him from book 1. He oozes character. Can we call him "Fatso Frank" until we get better information?

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:12 am 
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    asparagus wrote:
    I was wondering about this guy and I did recognize him from book 1. He oozes character. Can we call him "Fatso Frank" until we get better information?

    Yes. Yes, we can.
    In fact; let us call him that.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:28 am 
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    I wonder how strong TV actually is. I consiodered them a great power of erfworld, about as strong as Jetstone and stronger than minor powers like Unaroyal or HobitTM. However, they seem to be as strong as Unaroyal.

    TV has 19 warlords (+Ceasar?), and lost 8 since Jillian became Queen. They lost 2 warlords at the battle at the chokepoint, so they once had 29 warlords + 1 chief warlord.

    Unaroyal had before the last battle 11 warlorda and about 2000 units left. Ansom said that they had lost half of their troops in the fights with the new GK, so that were about 2000 units, too. They send about 1.700 units to the TBfGK. Assuming they allocated the warlords proportionally, they once had about 6.000 units with 30 warlords. About the same size as TV.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:39 am 
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    Hmm... not a whole lot interesting here. I do see what Don king has done though. They've lost 3 cities? But they've "gained" all of Faq's. I mean not really, but who really cares, Faq is under their control. As an added benefit they've gained natural allies in the form of the giants and can translovito can still ally with an opposed group of natural allies. Also since casters seem to pop for new sides it would seem reasonable that Faq should have gotten some casters. Plus they've gained variety among the city production lists.

    So Don has gotten:
    3 (5?) cities.
    Natural allies (with out the normal cost of limiting other alliances)
    Should have gotten casters
    Increased variety of unit production.
    Possibly increased raw material production at the second capital. (Blatant speculation.)

    At the cost of
    3 cities.
    8 (IIRC) warlords.

    All in all I think it was a great deal


    Second point: reenforcements from the guys you had to threaten? You're counting on them to save the day? It a good thing that GK is attacking everyone with out giving any chance for an peace You mean they ask for peace and alliance at every oppurtunity? Really? Err... I mean Jetstone just got a column of enemy troops to march up to the capital. Maybe they and the decrypted will fight over who gets your capital and casters.

    Third point: I doubt Jillians 32 air units will be able to stop GK's hunderdish dwagons. I mean, a few orlies (and Jillian) lost to five dwagons. I doubt a unipegatur can stop a dwagon. Ditto for a gwiffion. Same for the megalowgwiffs, but lets say its takes two dwagons to toast a megalowgwiff. So... 50ish dwagons would be needed to overwhelm the air force? Yeah, the airforce won't do anything.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:34 am 
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    I love the phrase "the Wack from Faq." :D I don't doubt that having an alliance with Charlie has made her act even wackier in everyone's eyes.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:01 am 
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    Zeku wrote:
    My theory. Don King has hired Charlie from the beginning. All Jillian/Charlie interaction was actually Don's manipulation. Don's building up Faq cities and a Faq heir, because he intends to use them somehow, possibly as a buffer from Stanley, post-Wanda. He possibly knows about the Jillian/Wanda relationship, and is going to use it to target and defeat Wanda specifically, which will instantly destroy or negate all the Decrypted. The more of the RCC that gets destroyed in the process, the better, as Don King intends to mop up afterwards.

    If he plays this intelligently, he should never, ever reveal his true purposes. Anything that doesn't happen naturally should be patiently tolerated, until the final coup de grace can be administered in privacy.


    An interesting theory, if not for Don King being "a simple man" who likes simple plans.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:15 am 
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    I think this update sheds a lot of light onto the tactics of the RCCII.

    It looks like basically they were attempting to stall GK forces at the bridge while reinforcements were brought up. Following that the Jetstone forces would fall back to Spacerock. Since they were deceived into believing GK's forces were infantry and seige heavy they might have been expecting GK's forces to take multiple turns crossing the bridge due to the bottleneck. In this case the column would be vulnerable to air sorties by the hidden airforce in Spacerock like Parson did the RCC in tBFGK. If this were the case the GK forces would presumably try to cross the bridge as fast as possible. At which point they'd have a strongly defended capital site to their fore, a bottleneck to their rear and an unexpected army on their flank leaving the GK forces partially encircled and, more or less, completely booped.

    However, this plan starts to fall apart quickly due to the increased mobility of the GK forces. I think this realisation is what caused the reaction at the TV party. It's not so much about Ossomer being captured, killed and decrypted. Although, his ability to provide intelligence would be concerning to them. I think what made them scramble is the realisation that their exceptionally elaborate trap has been rendered moot and that the crap golems are about to hit the fan.

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     Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:26 am 
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    Firkraag wrote:
    An interesting theory, if not for Don King being "a simple man" who likes simple plans.

    Yeah, I dunno how much you can trust people who present themselves as "simple men".

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