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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:12 pm 
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I started a separate thread to discuss the whole "Can Decrypted Casters still cast" thing, and other issues related to the Decrypted.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:43 pm 
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    One Skunk Todd wrote:

    He probably can't use a two-handed weapon and still get his ranged attack. It is a weird looking sword, at least in combination with somebody apparently in full-plate. Looks like a cutlass to me but I doubt he's about to go all piratey on us. :) Probably the most powerful one-handed-type weapon he can get his hands on.


    Hmmm actually, thats a good point on the claymore. (btw, i believe cutlass and sabre are effectively different models of the same weapon type). But still, I'd imagine a longsword or a broadsword to make use of his power by being heavy rather than a curved blade which takes advantage of speed. Maybe ossamar is insanely quick as well... with his size that would make him a downright scary opponent.

    Or maybe the cutlass is a magic item, and magic item>non magic broadsword

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:53 pm 
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    E is for Erfworld Supporter Battle Crest Pins Supporter Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user is a Tool! This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit This user got funny with a rodent
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    One Skunk Todd wrote:

    I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if the bubble is not necessarily an attack that does damage but rather a snare or tangle of some sort. Most games I've played that have a hidden/veiled/invisible component rule that the cover is broken if you make an attack.

    Edited for typos


    Keep in mind it isn't a veil; but a displacement. All of the actions being taken by the characters are likely being taken by the visible misdirected illusions. That's probably why the other warlord was so quick to realize they we're going after the princes.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:58 pm 
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    Hobgobwin wrote:
    Not really. They have plenty of much higher-level warlords.
    Una-royal's ex-chief warlord, for example.


    Where has Parson's level been defined?

    And Stanley doesn't know any warlords other than Ansom or Parson. I believe Stanley will go with a known element before an unknown element. Even if he doesn't like him.

    Unless he gets croaked by Jillian, in which case his decision won't matter.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:59 pm 
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    Hmm nice combat gear (Referencing O's bracer) I love seeing magic items in action.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:31 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user is a Tool!
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    technojunkie wrote:
    Keep in mind it isn't a veil; but a displacement. All of the actions being taken by the characters are likely being taken by the visible misdirected illusions. That's probably why the other warlord was so quick to realize they we're going after the princes.


    Oh that's a good point. It's not like Jetstone is unaware of GK's presence, they just don't know exactly where.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:44 pm 
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    If Wanda can get another bubble on Ossomer they might still be able to pull this off - they're probably all going to need to flee due to the volley though.

    I wonder if the arrows from the volley will also hit Jetstone units in the same hex (I just noticed someone else also posed this question earlier in the thread)?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:01 pm 
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    Love the look on the dragon's face right after it blow pops trem.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:20 pm 
    Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Pin-up Calendar and New Art Team Supporter This user is a Tool!
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    Heh, just noticed the tents are like giant radishes. :)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:40 pm 
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    Interesting update... as i feared, it looks like GK forces are in for some pain. I hope they can pull out from this but so far it looks like a setback coming wandas way.

    Perhaps she should pay more attention to Parsons advice?

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:17 pm 
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    hidufel wrote:
    ...looks like a setback coming wandas way.

    Perhaps she should pay more attention to Parsons advice?


    She thought she was, though, that's the thing. But that last-minute ill-considered change - capturing the leaders rather than sending scouts to, well, scout, like Parson actually advised her to do, is biting her in the butt. A real lesson here on the dangers of ad-libs. And just the sort of mistake a powerful and over-confident caster might make, too.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:27 pm 
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    Menas wrote:
    Hobgobwin wrote:
    Not really. They have plenty of much higher-level warlords.
    Una-royal's ex-chief warlord, for example.


    Where has Parson's level been defined?

    And Stanley doesn't know any warlords other than Ansom or Parson. I believe Stanley will go with a known element before an unknown element. Even if he doesn't like him.

    Unless he gets croaked by Jillian, in which case his decision won't matter.


    it would be a bad idea to make Parson Chief warlord. He can't leave GK and get to the troops out there. That means he can't give them bonuses. Also he can't lead them into the fight, and thus has to wait for reports to adjust his strategy. It's better to develop a strategy and explain it to a clever warlord at the front who can execute and adjust it on his own. For this he doesn't have to be chief warlord.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:31 pm 
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    theseus2x wrote:
    Smoker wrote:
    Also, we dont see ANY displaced units after Jack gets the arrow in the back. I suspect the whole effect is over, not just for those who got hit.

    (Wanda got her bubble pop off before the volley.)


    No, but the veil covering Ansom was dispelled. To me, that's a strong implication that Jack can't maintain his foolomancy when he gets hurt. Ergo, everyone is now visible and the displaced units vanish. Obviously, this is not conclusive, but I feel its strongly implied.

    It is impressive, though, that the Archons and Blue Dwagons can zap the stack and Wanda can even use the bubblegum bubble without breaking the veil. Good on Jack.

    Smoker wrote:
    If Ansom gets croaked they'll have no choice but to make Parson Chief Warlord again.


    It won't happen, though Jetstone MIGHT take him prisoner. (Or Jack....)


    Yeah thats what I meant. I agree with you totally. Also I didn't write that second quote :P

    And @Menas - Parson was called Level 2 in the list of GK forces he received back with his stupid meal aaaages ago in book 1. We cant tell if he's leveled since then, but I suspect not.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:35 pm 
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    Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
    Menas wrote:
    Hobgobwin wrote:
    Not really. They have plenty of much higher-level warlords.
    Una-royal's ex-chief warlord, for example.


    Where has Parson's level been defined?

    And Stanley doesn't know any warlords other than Ansom or Parson. I believe Stanley will go with a known element before an unknown element. Even if he doesn't like him.

    Unless he gets croaked by Jillian, in which case his decision won't matter.


    it would be a bad idea to make Parson Chief warlord. He can't leave GK and get to the troops out there. That means he can't give them bonuses. Also he can't lead them into the fight, and thus has to wait for reports to adjust his strategy. It's better to develop a strategy and explain it to a clever warlord at the front who can execute and adjust it on his own. For this he doesn't have to be chief warlord.


    He could do the same thing from GK as a chief warlord with a regular warlord on the front... except the chief warlord bonuses wouldn't be at the battle, true. As far as leaving GK.... why wouldn't he be able to do that? I thought that was just because Stanley grounded him to the GK hex. For now.


    Last edited by Menas on Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:38 pm 
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    Smoker wrote:
    And @Menas - Parson was called Level 2 in the list of GK forces he received back with his stupid meal aaaages ago in book 1. We cant tell if he's leveled since then, but I suspect not.


    Wow, I didn't remember that at all. I might have to look that up again at some point. I would think that if levels apply to Parson (it appears they do if he started out at level 2), then he should have leveled quite a bit.

    The casters gained levels from that last battle at GK and they should have been a lot higher than Parson. So a couple of levels to them could be four levels to him. Or more.

    In Parson's case it seems like his level will only affect his bonuses to his troops. He appears to be able to outsmart all the other warlords/chief warlords regardless of their level.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:57 pm 
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    In the "everything else erfworld" forum, there's a discussion on Parson's XP, and if he actually got any in book one.

    Since the rules on gaining XP are kinda ambiguous, especially for warlords, the results are surprisingly few.

    In other news, Unaroyal upgraded their garrison units to field units by spending money on them. Parson cant' leave the hex that GK is in (he tried in the summer updates) but perhaps he can get the Tool to spend some shmuckers and "upgrade" him... but if I was parson, I'd stick to thinkagrams. I'd take the Tool's attitude over getting a marbit axe to the kneecaps any day :P

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:42 pm 
    E is for Erfworld Supporter Here for the 10th Anniversary Has collected at least one unit
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    Dr Quest DFA wrote:
    3: What, no friendly fire on Oss and Trem from the mass volley? Boo!


    Yeah, was wondering that.

    Firkraag wrote:
    There's one mistake I've been seeing and confuses me a lot; On the second to last panel, Ansom is on the left side of the panel. On the last, he's on the right. Something like this happened in previous comics and it's a little disorienting, especially when you're trying to depict a battle scene... Isn't it best to keep the viewpoint stable?


    There is a rule in film making where you shouldn't change viewpoint by more than a certain amount when switching cameras.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:35 pm 
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    I assume from the lack of similar comments here that I am the only one having problems making out panel 9, which makes me feel a little stupid - but can someone explain to me what that is behind Jack's dwagon? I gather from comments on here that it is an Archon, but I just can't see it... what is the weird pink thing where the head should be? Looks like a turkey waiting to be cooked... and slightly like an octorok from Legend of Zelda. Help!

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:36 pm 
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    Smoker wrote:
    What I was doing, was drawing a parallel between Ansom, who sees his life in a very religious context, and is more or less obsessed (who else would wage war on their own family?), with "some" people in the real world who are also obsessed with their religions. Religions themselves are great. Heck, I'M religious, but there are "people" out there who are crazy about them. If anyone got slammed, it was crazy people, not religions.


    Anyone with mind control. He's not willingly waging war on his family. His decryption changed his mind. It's not anything to do with religion. He's not stunningly religious. He was convinced of the superiority of royals, but even then, he wasn't quoting scripture, or venerating the Titans. Religion is more to do with worship of some sort of divine being or force than anything else, not veneration of yourself as morally, physically, and intellectually superior to everyone else. About 1/4 of people I know believe they're morally, physically and intellectually superior to everyone else.

    Smoker wrote:
    So, what I was trying to say, was that I have found in my personal experience with "some" people who could be considered as crazy as Ansom is about HIS new religion, is that they generally dont reconsider their religion when something terrible happens. That makes me think that Ansom, like this particular minority of real-world people Im talking about, will not be mad at his Mistress Wanda if things go pear-shaped. I suspect he'll find some other rationale, perhaps considering himself a martyr, or blaming it on Parson, particularly since Wanda made it look like his idea.


    1. He's not that crazy. His main weakness is the Royal's adherence to the codes of war. In that, you don't betray people on surrender. His arrogance about his superiority also hurt him, when he attacked the wall on his own, after becoming mad that Wanda had ressed lots of troops. Apparantly Ossomer believes it's wrong to attack using foolamancy, as well, incidentally, another bit of the code of war.

    2. Religious individuals aren't mind controlled to love their god and never blame them for anything, and as such, can have more complex thoughts. This is more natural thinkamancy than religion. Regardless, the fact that they lost in one engagement wouldn't change the fact that Parson and Wanda defeated a coalition of royal powers, which is substantial evidence (in the realms of, victory means you're right evidence) that Wanda is the correct one to back. The fact that you're comparing a person who's being mind controlled by evil nose pliers to someone who believes strongly in a God is iffy.

    3. Religious individuals have a substantial body of evidence to support their beliefs. Almost no one changes completely due to one event. Any more than anyone of any religious or political allegiance. A single person shooting a dangerous robber, and protecting their family from murder isn't going to change a liberal's belief that it's better to restrict guns, because they have vast realms of experience that says that's not the norm. A single person accidentally shooting a family member isn't going to change a conservatives belief that it's better to be more free with guns, because they have vast realms of experience that says that's not the norm. An atheist isn't going to change their beliefs about god because their atheist role model does something bad due to their atheism, any more than a theist would change for the same reasons. Because of his mind control, he switched his beliefs about who the Titans were behind, but changed little otherwise.

    Edit. A better analogy might be when you're fanatically in love with someone. God, or any person. You're unlikely to view their actions through a bad prism. But even then, it's not a good analogy. People in love often fight, religious individuals often have crisis of faith for some reason or other. In this case, Wanda has strongly suggested that this is Parson's idea. So he's gonna blame him, of course, since he hates Parson for various reasons and loves Wanda. But if Wanda did do something blatantly stupid, he might not blame her anyway- because he's mind controlled to view her as perfection. We'll see how strong it is anyway.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 – Page 8
     Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:58 pm 
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    Spanners wrote:
    I assume from the lack of similar comments here that I am the only one having problems making out panel 9, which makes me feel a little stupid - but can someone explain to me what that is behind Jack's dwagon? I gather from comments on here that it is an Archon, but I just can't see it... what is the weird pink thing where the head should be? Looks like a turkey waiting to be cooked... and slightly like an octorok from Legend of Zelda. Help!


    That's part of the back of an Archon. Remember, the Archons are decrypted units, which (despite their coolness) are just very superior uncroaked. When they're slain, they dissolve into dust. You're seeing her hair, flight-attendant's cap, and uniform, but her arms and legs have already begun dissolving. The sound effect, PCP, is angel dust.

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