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 Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:12 pm 
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Anton Gaist wrote:
I do believe that if those siege towers are there it's because Rob plans to use them. I can think of one or two ways of using them in GK's advantage myself, but it's a gamble.

One? If those towers are filled with archer units, the golems could push them halfway into the water on both sides of the bridge. That would give the archers high ground to pick off their targets at leisure, protecting the units crossing the bridge on foot. Jetstone ground units would be unable to engage them directly, and would also be seriously damaged if they tried to engage the units exiting the bridge.

The towers would need strong air support from dwagons, which would be in charge of disposing of Jetstone's air units, ballistae and catapults.

Another would involve somehow turning those siege towers into makeshift bridges (if Gotti has something of an engineering background, it wouldn't be so hard to pull off - a couple of well balanced joints and pulleys would do it) to open a dozen crossings and increase unit flow across the river. But again, wooden towers filled to the brim with units... risky. One fireball and it's BBQ time.

Getting across this bridge will be a good measure of the kind of strategy Gotti can come up with.



While I agree it's fascinating wondering what they'll come up with... 1)It's Ansom's plan, not Parson's, and 2) We haven't seen nearly enough to figure out what the plan is, for either side. Maybe the battle isn't going to be at the bridge at all, maybe that was just a good place for the parlay Ansom requested. The Jetstone forces are there to protect their leaders during the meeting, and the forces you see behind Ansom are farther away than they look, presumably in the next hex. Or maybe the battle WILL be at the bridge. It's too early to say :)

The one thign that struck me most about what little we've seen is the lack of visible air cover, which makes me wonder if that isn't part of the plan too. Bring your seige forward, and lure your enemy into trying to stop them at the bridge (which as a chokepoint,is a good defensive spot against land forces). Once your enemy's committed, bam.... your air forces strike from another direction, having circled around while you were having a parlay :P Maybe they'll even ignore the enemy's main force and attack the city proper. Between the dwagons, archons, and whatever decrypted flyers they have left from the first coalition....surely they could press the garrison hard. It might even be a win right there. Ignore the body, go for the throat.



Edit: Also... those ideas about using the seige were clever, but I wonder if we're not overthinking it. If the hex barrier were at the middle of the bridge, then the battle could not take place ON the bridge. The armies would be straddling hexes, which as far as we know is impossible. More likely scenario... the river bisects the hex, with the bridge being roughly in the middle. When the fight starts, the ground forces start trying to take the bridge from either side, while the seige engines spread out along Ansom's side of the river, and rain down arrows on Jetstone's forces. You don't have to do anything tricky with "half in the river" because as far as we know Jetstone has no casters, and minimal air support. Maybe some of their archers could hit the seige, but surely that wouldn't be that much damage. If all else fails, Ansom calls in his air support to hit Jetstone's archers, problem solved. It becomes a war of attrition, which massively favors Ansom's side. The question then becomes, when/if Jillian shows up....


Last edited by InInUrForumz on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:20 pm 
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    Infidel wrote:
    Artsy and creative isn't eccentric, it's artsy and creative. The eldest sibling has no elder siblings to go to for advice, and the mother and father are away, so they develop their own answers to problems without a role model. That's why they are odd and whimsical. An eldest brother might be the most likely to take over the family business, but he's also the most likely to close the shop on a nice day and put up a "Gone Fishin'" sign.


    "Conformist" (which, supposedly, elder brothers tend to be) is not eccentric either.

    Again, that documentary did not really make a case for elder brothers being conformist, specifically because primogeniture (elder brother inherits all/most) was the usual in feudal, and a little afterwards, Europe, and the list of famous people presented was of course filled by white dead European males. (ADDED, for clarification: so, elder brothers were likely to follow in the father's footsteps, be that running a land or running the smithy, while younger brothers had to carve their own way)

    It doesn't look like you are making a case for elder brothers being eccentric however. That looks more like an evo-psych just-so story and I'd love to see it substantiated.

    In the meantime, one more addition. Even in folklore, it's the little brother that is the smart creative and not boring one, the one who goes off the tread path, and the one who succeeds. At least in fairy-tales. There's even a tvtropes page about it, which, like the foul language of Mordor, I shan't link to here.

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    Last edited by BLANDCorporatio on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:32 pm 
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    On tactic:
    I think Ossomer's choice to fight GK's army of decrypted on a bridge is a smart idea. That way they deny them important bonuses from GK's chief warlord and chief croakamancer. Because Jetstone troopswait direct at the hex boarder, neither Ansom nor Wanda can enter the hex without risking to get caught in crossfire. Ossomer on the other side can give the hex bonus. If Ansom or wanda try to get into the hex with fliers, they become an aim for archers and casters.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:44 pm 
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    Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
    On tactic:
    I think Ossomer's choice to fight GK's army of decrypted on a bridge is a smart idea. That way they deny them important bonuses from GK's chief warlord and chief croakamancer. Because Jetstone troopswait direct at the hex boarder, neither Ansom nor Wanda can enter the hex without risking to get caught in crossfire. Ossomer on the other side can give the hex bonus. If Ansom or wanda try to get into the hex with fliers, they become an aim for archers and casters.


    A better plan for Ossamar would be to move back to the capital but lay a trap under the bridge and break it when Wanda and maybe Ansom are over it 8-).
    As for GK they should just attack the Capital first then the rear of the army with flyers pwn :mrgreen:.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:47 pm 
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    Another lurker comes up for air because of this comic =)

    Tramennis reminds me of Mxyzptlk, both in stature and the way he is constantly needling the Superman-esque Ossomer.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:49 pm 
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    Quote:

    And about the eccentricity thing, I saw once a documentary on some Discovery Channel claiming that the elder brother tends to do what parents say and therefore grows up conformist, while the little brother is the one throwing the tantrum and growing up artsy and creative. Then they made a list of people who were little brothers and famous in history. Seemed like a logic fail, since even they admitted their list was populated by not-elder-brothers which is what someone was likely to be when people had seven kids ... and the elder ones were expected to go on with the family business ...

    Anyway, more proof that nobody knows diddly (in psychology).


    I'm actually a 3rd year psyc major and I've given up trying to nit-pick, very simply because there's too much. So, whatever. Whenever people want to offer their "psychoanalysis" (while unaware that psychoanalysis had been debunked almost a century ago) I just skip past.

    For those still arguing about the little-brother-tends-to-be-more-creative there isn't solid evidence in favour of that just yet. Also, that kind of study would probably be more sociological than psychological because you're looking to compare one demographic to another.

    Also, intuition and drawing on fairy tales in history does not make fact/science and hence shouldn't be used as "proof" - intuition is used for explaining proof or making hypotheses.

    Quote:
    A better plan for Ossamar would be to move back to the capital but lay a trap under the bridge and break it when Wanda and maybe Ansom are over it

    That's a solid plan, and would be great in a RTS game. Probably a little predictable though. Still, they might still use it, just because it would look really Ossome.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:20 pm 
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    Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
    On tactic:
    I think Ossomer's choice to fight GK's army of decrypted on a bridge is a smart idea. That way they deny them important bonuses from GK's chief warlord and chief croakamancer. Because Jetstone troopswait direct at the hex boarder, neither Ansom nor Wanda can enter the hex without risking to get caught in crossfire. Ossomer on the other side can give the hex bonus. If Ansom or wanda try to get into the hex with fliers, they become an aim for archers and casters.


    This is irrelevant. The very same thing could be said of them attacking the city, except in the city they would have plenty of air defenses as well if ansom wanted to attack on his carpet. Also the stack with Wanda and Ansom with 6 heavies is about as mean a bunch of motherboopers in the entire world as you could ask for so fighting them on a bridge instead of forcing them to attack up the walls of a level 5 city doesn't give any advantage I can see.

    The rules of how units attack between hexs isn't entirely clear, we are led to believe that it follows the rules of a game in terms of attack and defense stats but the exact mechanics of how a stack moving into a hex and how many stacks in the opposing hex can attack it is unknown. If every single stack in the attacked hex could attack the attacking stack all at once then big armies would be unattackable, so there must be some limit or time dependance on how many stacks can fight back and how fast attacking stacks can enter, but we don't really have any answers for that. We do know that units can move around their stack as much as they want but how is there time relative to the attackers time makes it all weird.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:57 pm 
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    While, admittedly, we have not seen much of the two other princes, I am not really fond of either of them.

    Ossomer, to me, is simply very very bland. Now, please note, that I am not using 'bland' in the same sense as 'two-dimensional'. New characters take time to gain depth so I'm not accusing him of any issues there. What I am refering to, however, is his personality. He's dull, even for a straightman, and I hope that this will be addressed over time as his character is broadened. The whole superman bit is amusing however and he does have potential.

    As for Tramennis; for someone I've just met I am really disliking his character. Despite claims on this thread to the contrary, he is not witty - he is extremely juvenile, not funny, and very much grating to the nerves (at least to me). I also doubt that he's acting in that manner to just get at Ansom either as siblings find ways to deal with eachothers attempts at irritation and because there is no use in trying to rile him up at quite that moment. Sure, as Tramennis gets expanded upon he'll probably be shown up as cunning and crafty... but I seriously doubt his humor will ever change to the point that I will enjoy reading his comments.

    To those of you praising Tramennis as a polarizing character, and think he is wonderful because of that, I must point out that there is good polarization and bad polarization. Good polarization occurs when a character makes a morally ambiguous choice and people either side with or against him on that choice. This kind of polarization draws the readers deeper into the story. Bad polarization creates little pro- and anti- camps which can grow depending upon how the person or issue is dealt with. At best, you get little arguements such as those regarding Charlie on these very forums. At worst, you get something like LFG's Richard and Pella divides which can turn into full on rants and affect readership. Tramennis falls squarely into the 'bad polarization' camp and I hope that he is kept in check in such a way that no chasm forms between pro- and anti- Tramennis readers.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:02 pm 
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    My own guess is that Tramennis is grieving for his brother, and the incessant joking is his way of coping with and/or hiding the pain.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:20 pm 
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    Erev wrote:
    While, admittedly, we have not seen much of the two other princes, I am not really fond of either of them.

    Ossomer, to me, is simply very very bland. Now, please note, that I am not using 'bland' in the same sense as 'two-dimensional'. New characters take time to gain depth so I'm not accusing him of any issues there. What I am refering to, however, is his personality. He's dull, even for a straightman, and I hope that this will be addressed over time as his character is broadened. The whole superman bit is amusing however and he does have potential.

    As for Tramennis; for someone I've just met I am really disliking his character. Despite claims on this thread to the contrary, he is not witty - he is extremely juvenile, not funny, and very much grating to the nerves (at least to me). I also doubt that he's acting in that manner to just get at Ansom either as siblings find ways to deal with eachothers attempts at irritation and because there is no use in trying to rile him up at quite that moment. Sure, as Tramennis gets expanded upon he'll probably be shown up as cunning and crafty... but I seriously doubt his humor will ever change to the point that I will enjoy reading his comments.

    To those of you praising Tramennis as a polarizing character, and think he is wonderful because of that, I must point out that there is good polarization and bad polarization. Good polarization occurs when a character makes a morally ambiguous choice and people either side with or against him on that choice. This kind of polarization draws the readers deeper into the story. Bad polarization creates little pro- and anti- camps which can grow depending upon how the person or issue is dealt with. At best, you get little arguements such as those regarding Charlie on these very forums. At worst, you get something like LFG's Richard and Pella divides which can turn into full on rants and affect readership. Tramennis falls squarely into the 'bad polarization' camp and I hope that he is kept in check in such a way that no chasm forms between pro- and anti- Tramennis readers.


    I agree he is well written but very annoying, but he does seem dangerous, like a snake :?.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:45 pm 
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    Have you noticed that no one seems able to spell Tramennis' name correctly?

    I'm with the Tremennis team. As are for LOSERS.

    I like him tremennisly, but I don't think Ossomer is awesome. He reminds me very much of Superman, who really isn't awesome at all, in my opinion. He's a super dick, though, just like Ossomer. ;)

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:26 pm 
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    BLANDCorporatio wrote:
    Infidel wrote:
    Artsy and creative isn't eccentric, it's artsy and creative. The eldest sibling has no elder siblings to go to for advice, and the mother and father are away, so they develop their own answers to problems without a role model. That's why they are odd and whimsical. An eldest brother might be the most likely to take over the family business, but he's also the most likely to close the shop on a nice day and put up a "Gone Fishin'" sign.


    "Conformist" (which, supposedly, elder brothers tend to be) is not eccentric either.

    Again, that documentary did not really make a case for elder brothers being conformist, specifically because primogeniture (elder brother inherits all/most) was the usual in feudal, and a little afterwards, Europe, and the list of famous people presented was of course filled by white dead European males. (ADDED, for clarification: so, elder brothers were likely to follow in the father's footsteps, be that running a land or running the smithy, while younger brothers had to carve their own way)

    It doesn't look like you are making a case for elder brothers being eccentric however. That looks more like an evo-psych just-so story and I'd love to see it substantiated.

    In the meantime, one more addition. Even in folklore, it's the little brother that is the smart creative and not boring one, the one who goes off the tread path, and the one who succeeds. At least in fairy-tales. There's even a tvtropes page about it, which, like the foul language of Mordor, I shan't link to here.


    I'm not getting what you're trying to say here. I said eccentric and you're going off on conformist. An eccentric person isn't trying to not conform he's just following is mood. Unlike how a bunch of kids will get together and agree to be non-conformists, by instead conforming to a different standard. Eccentricity in people is about oddness and whimsy not a long-term resistance to conformity. A shop keeper that closes up on a nice day to go fishing is eccentric. He's not trying to not conform, he's just more interested in enjoying the day than running the store. Painting one's interior walls fuscia is eccentric. Smart, creative, non-boring, these have nothing to do with Eccentricity. Being an artist is not itself eccentric, nothing whimsical about that, it's not even close, because being an artist is a passion not a whim. An artist that refuses to paint anything but trees would be eccentric though. Life altering decisions aren't taken lightly simply because someone is eccentric, but they might inconvenience others in many other ways that are considered less important. Such as an eccentric store owner that refuses to take credit cards for payment.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:45 pm 
    Battle Crest Pins Supporter This user is a Tool! Year of the Dwagon Supporter This user was a Tool before it was cool Print Book 2 & Draw Book 3 Supporter E is for Erfworld Supporter IRC Quote of the Moment Here for the 10th Anniversary
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    Infidel wrote:
    Such as an eccentric store owner that refuses to take credit cards for payment.


    Actually, credit card companies charge storekeepers a monthly fee plus a fee per transaction; so shopkeeper not wanting to take credit cards might have nothing to do with eccentricity, but rather just not wanting to get hit coming and going from the credit card company.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:03 am 
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    I'd also hop aboard the "Tramennis" rocks boat.

    He would -- at first glance -- appear to be my style of General. Crappy jokes that you can't help but laugh at, an underlying cunning, and sharp mind as opposed to brute strength. (But no one can deny how awesome Ossomer looks in that armor and cape and just standing there like a cold hearted badass ready to rain destruction on the first skull to enter his line of sight.)

    As for someone earlier pondering the pseudonym for TrAmennis, when "tremendous" seem not apply... I would suggest, as it seems to me, it would be "Ultra Menace" or something to that effect. While I like the character, I do doubt he is tremendous in any definition of the word, except perhaps tremendous douche (he's what all douches should be though, really, then they'd be appreciated). A menace seems much more his personality. He's up to speed with the big players, albeit a little behind, but he's ahead enough of the rest of the pack to poke and prod and have a plan.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:06 am 
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    SInce it's Ansom in charge, I predict a straight-on charge, and then Parson has to pull his boop out of the water :P

    -C

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:10 am 
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    I would just like to point out that, all assertions aside, we don't actually know nearly anything about either of the two brothers. All of this "He's sneaky and conniving", "No he's smug bastard and I hate him." is projection onto the character; he has had virtually no screen time.

    So, for now, just be patient.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:19 am 
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    valce wrote:
    SInce it's Ansom in charge, I predict a straight-on charge, and then Parson has to pull his boop out of the water :P

    -C


    Though he's still a stiff-necked, uptight killjoy, he does and has learned.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:01 am 
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    I haven't seen anybody voice my theory on the future of this strip yet, so I guess I'll share it...

    I'm betting that Tramennis and Ossomer are a very formidible team and that they will manage defeat Ansom and Wanda. This will force Stanley to re-deploy Parson to the field to command the battle. I figure that story is about Parson being in Erfworld to command battles, and this suddenly occurred to me as a convenient means to have Parson get back to commanding despite Stanley not wanting him to.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:01 am 
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    I too, see Tramennis as the trickster type. But there's just one problem with the "fatally underestimated" part. And that's the fact erfworlders have statvision. We see Tramennis and "must be hidden capabilities there". Erfworlders see

    PRINCE TRAMMENIS
    Human, Jetstone
    Type: Warlord Level: 16
    Movement: 4

    Special: Beguilement, dagger throwing


    Hence his act is mainly just his act, it is not a strategic ploy.

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     Post subject: Re: Book 2 - Page 3
     Post Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:56 am 
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    Dr Pepper wrote:
    I too, see Tramennis as the trickster type. But there's just one problem with the "fatally underestimated" part. And that's the fact erfworlders have statvision. We see Tramennis and "must be hidden capabilities there". Erfworlders see

    PRINCE TRAMMENIS
    Human, Jetstone
    Type: Warlord Level: 16
    Movement: 4

    Special: Beguilement, dagger throwing


    Hence his act is mainly just his act, it is not a strategic ploy.


    Not necessarily. Parson, for example, has lame Erfworld stats, as far as we can tell. Things like "is incredibly sneaky" can be true without being stats.

    Of course, "Tramennis" could just be "The Menace" instead of "Tremendous", upon which he's less a Trickster and more just immature and annoying. We won't really know until the guy actually does something except poke at Ansom and Ossomer's tendency to lapse into Awesome Medieval High Fantasy diction.

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