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 Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:06 am 
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Rands may only pertain to the MK, and may only be acceptable upkeep if the caster spends the entire turn in the MK, or if they are not employed by a side.

Rands may simply be a virtual currency or credit that pertains to services that only exist in the MK. Food generation, juice replenishment, and any individual needs of casters may be far easier to provide in the MK, due to it's magical nature. All of this may also be completely level-independent.


Last edited by Zeku on Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:15 am 
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    One other option may be that Rands may have a set value above 160 smuckers, but can't be divided into fractional Rands. So, if you use them for upkeep, you use as many as it takes and any portion of a Rand that would be in excess is wasted. For instance, if a Rand was worth 200 smuckers, it would cover Sizemore and anyone with a lower upkeep for sure, but if Parson used Rands for Upkeep it would take 5 or 6 or whatever.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:13 am 
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    Another possibility is that a Rand is a currency born FROM contributing to the MK. Like how MMOs have their own Honor systems, Reputation gauges, and "Iron Coins" that are used for buying only a specific set of perks or equipment. The Rand may be a currency born from contributing to the MK, from the MK.

    Hey, it IS a possibility.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:31 am 
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    We haven't yet seen any central authority that would manage such a thing, but then again we haven't seen much of the Magic Kingdom in general. We still don't know where Rands come from even. :D Or where they go to when they are consumed for upkeep, if they don't simply evaporate.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:09 am 
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    Beeskee wrote:
    We haven't yet seen any central authority that would manage such a thing, but then again we haven't seen much of the Magic Kingdom in general. We still don't know where Rands come from even. :D Or where they go to when they are consumed for upkeep, if they don't simply evaporate.


    Stuff like that's usually managed automagically. Or if you want an authority: Titans.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:49 am 
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    Which is why I theorized that Rands may come from the MK itself. Not a bureaucracy, but the very dirt, trees, and PROVINCE of the MK itself. Just like how Shmuckers are produced by cities, the MK may produce Rands when a Caster interacts with it in a way that is generally positive. It's unlikely, yes. Rands are probably produced as a conscious act of turning one monetary substance into another, and may be a way of stretching a Shmucker farther than normal Side type upkeep runs. But it's pretty fun to make crazy theories, ain't it?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:51 am 
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    I hope it turns out DigDoug himself turns out to be the ruler to which the ring will belong to, him getting vengeance on his own terms leaves a better taste in my mouth rather than just becoming someone else's lackey.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:18 am 
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    Prodigial_Knight wrote:
    I hope it turns out DigDoug himself turns out to be the ruler to which the ring will belong to, him getting vengeance on his own terms leaves a better taste in my mouth rather than just becoming someone else's lackey.


    I thought that part was pretty obvious. The Great Underground Empire.

    But yes, all Rand theories here are pointing in the same direction. It's a MK-only credit. Ie Shmuckers are intrinsic to Erf, or regulated by Moneymancers, while Rand is a caster-created credit used to maintain their autonomy from the rest of Erf.

    This exact concept, of having your own currency that is not regulated by a central global bank, is a component in every war that has been fought in the past couple of centuries. Namely, every 'conquered nation' had it's own independent currency.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:39 pm 
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    It is possible that Rands are minted by the MK itself under some sort of unknown conditions. I'd love to know what tho. :D

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:25 pm 
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    I like the theory that Rands are the result of some sort of honor from the MK itself. Which of course, since Carnies have so much trouble with upkeep, it must mean the MK itself hates them.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:11 pm 
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    Rands are probably like BitCoins, which means they are mined. Knowing ErfWorld, this is undoubtedly implemented in a literal sense, which explains why Dirtamancers are fabulously wealthy in the Magic Kingdom.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:24 pm 
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    Dante wrote:
    Rands are probably like BitCoins, which means they are mined. Knowing ErfWorld, this is undoubtedly implemented in a literal sense, which explains why Dirtamancers are fabulously wealthy in the Magic Kingdom.
    ....that would literally be a contradiction of their purpose. By very definition, they cannot have any connection to any discipline whatsoever. Dirtamancers are wealthy because of supply/demand, and the usefulness of their discipline in a place where famring and structures need to be done manually.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:08 am 
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    The whole concept of Rands has been bugging me. Clearly they must have some independent means of being created; if some caster discipline was making them you'd run into the problem of being able to literally print money. If they only had value for trading between casters in the MK then their could be some kind of control on them (an MK ruling council of some sort, like a real world government controls its own treasury), but then there would be no reason not to print enough so everyone can avoid disbanding.

    Having the world spawn Rands much like it spawns Schmuckers makes more sense, though what the mechanism is isn't clear. And it was pointed out that casters use Rands to trade with one another in the MK to avoid giving moneymancers an edge, but how can you force that? Casters, especially barbarian casters, need upkeep to survive. Why wouldn't they work or trade for schmuckers instead of rands in order to survive? There must be a conversion rate for rands to schmuckers, since rands can be used for upkeep, and that has a defined schmucker value. Even if it may cost more than 1 rand for upkeep for more expensive units, we now know that 1 rand is worth at least 160 schmuckers.

    What if you have an upkeep of 100 schmuckers and your friend needs 160? Why not have him pay you 150 schmuckers every day for a rand? He gets a discount on upkeep and you make a little cash. Many sides are short on cash and this is also another way to make money. Wouldn't casters be compelled to let their rulers know about rands because of their Duty? High upkeep casters could buy rands from lower-upkeep casters in the MK and save the side a bit of cash.

    Final note, Sizemore seemed to have more rands than he could reasonably spend, or indeed needed. And we know that pretty much every day sees a caster take the long walk. It feels out of character for him not to do something about it, sure he can't be at the pier every day but give Janis some extra rands and tell her to save a few casters for him. For that matter it feels out of character for hippiemancers in general or at least Janis in particular to just let other casters die, though I don't know that they aren't doing what they can to help the less fortunate. Sizemore in particular seems like he would help, and as Rands aren't something casters tell their rulers about (as far as I can tell), there seems no reason for him not to use his star status to save people.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:51 am 
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    Except, Dunbar, Casters who take the long walk often come back. So there ARE a lot of casters who go to the short pier to give other casters a second chance, a third chance, a fourth chance... until they run out of chances. Eventually, when you fail often enough, even the most generous souls realize their money can go to better causes.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:14 am 
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    Dunbar wrote:
    Final note, Sizemore seemed to have more rands than he could reasonably spend, or indeed needed. And we know that pretty much every day sees a caster take the long walk. It feels out of character for him not to do something about it, sure he can't be at the pier every day but give Janis some extra rands and tell her to save a few casters for him. For that matter it feels out of character for hippiemancers in general or at least Janis in particular to just let other casters die, though I don't know that they aren't doing what they can to help the less fortunate. Sizemore in particular seems like he would help, and as Rands aren't something casters tell their rulers about (as far as I can tell), there seems no reason for him not to use his star status to save people.

    Keep in mind that disbanding a caster every day maintains equilibrium. Erfworlders don't seem to die of old age. If all spare rands are devoted to charity, then barring unlimited resources, the population will still eventually rise beyond the capacity to support them.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:37 am 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Keep in mind that disbanding a caster every day maintains equilibrium. Erfworlders don't seem to die of old age. If all spare rands are devoted to charity, then barring unlimited resources, the population will still eventually rise beyond the capacity to support them.


    I guess it comes back to the question of where rands come from. Sizemore is able to throw them around, so somehow he has a lot. It just feels wrong for characters like Janis and Sizemore, who are represented as truly caring souls, to just let other casters die like that.

    I mean for most casters, Dove's outlook makes sense. For most characters, rationalizing casters just disbanding is what they'd have to do. We all do that in real life, I mean I'm spending time here speculating about a webcomic when real people are dying of disease/starvation/etc. in other places of the world. But Sizemore, he cares. It's the kind of thing that would eat at him. And even if he couldn't save them all, you'd think he'd be doing what he can.

    It still feels weird to me though. We need to know more about how rands are created, and how they can be used in place of schmuckers for upkeep. Also, if rands are earned by doing work around the MK (as some have speculated), could the decrypted units start producing rands for free (since they have no upkeep)?

    I just feel that now that Rands have moved from being a currency casters use to trade with each other in the MK only into a currency that has real-world value (i.e. as schmuckers for upkeep), that opens up a whole can of worms. Not only about keeping other fellow casters from disbanding, but also as far as caster obligations for Duty (an additional resource your Ruler should know about). I mean, can you spend Rands for upkeep while not in the MK? If so, can you give them to non casters? A dirtamancer could earn rands in the MK then use them to feed units with high upkeep for a few turns. At the very least he could use rands for upkeep for all his side's casters for a few turns, if he saves up some rands. It may not be much, but sides can run very short on cash (like Jetstone just before the huge battle).

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:52 am 
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    Dunbar wrote:
    I guess it comes back to the question of where rands come from. Sizemore is able to throw them around, so somehow he has a lot. It just feels wrong for characters like Janis and Sizemore, who are represented as truly caring souls, to just let other casters die like that.


    Hmm, Janis maybe, but Sizemore, I'm not sure.

    Quote:
    “Carnies are all right,” said Dove. “We take care of our own. You know, unless you’re completely hopeless. The Dirtamancers here ain’t like that.” She shrugged. “You’ll see, I guess. You don’t trust me, and I can’t make you, so you’ll have to go find out for yourself. Good luck, hon. I wish you well.”


    I have a feeling that Sizemore isn't as upright in the MK as we'd like to think. Which is good, because personally I've grown less fond of Sizemore and his unending whining.

    My feelings are that he thinks of himself too highly, "a dirty rich rock star" or something along those lines. Wanda has to kill, Parson has to kill, everyone on his side has to kill. Nobody likes doing it, especially Parson. But Sizemore still feels justified that he can hate Parson for having to do his duty.

    And he overspends excessively (as you'd expect rock stars to do) on wasted efforts - like with Janis' lessons... although you could make the argument that he didn't feel like he was going to survive tbogk and therefore had no more use for rands, he still chose to waste them on magic lessons he knows will be of no use to him, instead of taking the long walk and giving the rands to casters who may really need it.

    Personally I think that this is what happens with Rands:

    All Casters have the ability to convert a set number of Schmuckers into Rands when they are in the Magic Kingdom. Something like, I dunno, 50 Schmuckers makes one Rand.

    This conversion is one way only, and it's the same for every caster, Moneymancers have no power over it. It's just an innate ability. Digdoug was never aware of it because he was never in the MK before.

    A Caster who is in the MK at start of turn can pay one Rand in lieu of schmuckers as their upkeep. Perhaps only Barbarians can pay their upkeep using Rands, for others it's just another currency for other caster services in the MK.

    Why do I think it goes Schmuckers -> Rands. Well, because all the casters still charge for their services in Schmuckers. And they charge a lot. They can't stick with just schmuckers, and only ever pay their upkeep with Rands from another source, because some of them (especially the popular ones) are going to fill up their purse. So all these casters need a way to do something with that money. And if the only solution is to seek out Moneymancers to make gems, then that kind of defeats the purpose of keeping Moneymancers from accruing too much influence in MK economics. And it has to be one-way because as far as we know there's no limit on Rands you can carry, and otherwise they're almost entirely more effective than gems.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:28 am 
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    I suspect that Sizemore is a good person. He can't be in the MK every night (especially now that he's traveling to other GK cities), so he can't save everyone.

    More to the point, I very strongly suspect that many people here consider themselves to be good people without going out every night (or most nights, even) to find homeless people and give them food. And not because the money would better be spent on the Red Cross to save even more lives. Nobody donates all of their time to helping others in Stupidworld, why do people think that Sizemore should in Erfworld? People donate money/time to food kitchens to help the poor, not donate their life savings; buy a hybrid car and recycle to help the environment, not move to the wilderness; or write to their congressperson to try to enact legislation they think will help people instead of running for office.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:04 pm 
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    Also the Long Walk might be mostly casters who don't want to live no more. Caster upkeep isn't high, but even a turn of juice can make powerful items, units or scrolls. Casters are absurdly powerful in combat, but chance you might lose the casters services generally outweighs that use of them. I'm sure most sides would jump at the chance to get a caster on a long term contract at their upkeep cost, or even a little above.

    So the Long Walk is when casters fall into a depression and stop trying. I'm sure some casters just plan poorly or procrastinate too long and then there is a lack of work for their class, but those guys probably learn their lesson after the first time they screw up. Maybe a handful of disciplines have trouble finding work at all in their field, but even then they can do stuff like spell up a tower.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 22
     Post Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:04 pm 
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    Really great stuff. I loved this plotline.
    I look forward to seeing where 'Dug will pop up next.

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