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 Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
 Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:02 pm 
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Topotato proves that trading is a thing sides do, there's no need to bicker over semantics. So yes, it's mechanically possible that Wanda's chocolate comes from trade. HOWEVER, the only source of chocolate to be traded for is Haffaton, who Goodminton was directly at war with then. So in this given instance, Wanda's chocolate could not functionally have come from trade.

Now, can we finally put this wildly-off-topic debate to rest and stop indulging the troll formerly known as Lilwik, who from the quotes I can read of him, seems to be the one keeping things rolling. You're all better off Foe-ing him as I did months ago so you only have to see his nonsense speak when someone quotes him.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:10 pm 
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    Meh. Every thread in reactions gets off topic. It does not bother me to go down those roads, since off topic does not mean it is unproductive to learning about the comic.

    Your point about the functionality of trading was pretty much what was being said, but I was not talking about one time trades, like Topotato. I was talking about some form of enduring trade between sides like, "We produce too much of this and do not need it, but it would be nice if we could spice up our meals with some of what you produce too much of. Want to make an extended contract saying we will trade this much of each thing, each turn?" That is more what it would take to trade for chocolate, and that is why it was still interesting to talk about a bit beyond the Topotato aspect.

    Also it was not bickering. Just exploring a topic. At least I didn't feel any negativity in the conversation.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:17 pm 
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    Ok fair enough, as a general topic yeah trade is interesting. It's just very clear that in the case of Wanda's chocolate, trade could not have been the solution. Which Lilwik obviously knows, but will continue to deny because he likes to be contrary.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 4:43 pm 
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    CarniDollMancer wrote:
    Meh. Every thread in reactions gets off topic. It does not bother me to go down those roads, since off topic does not mean it is unproductive to learning about the comic.

    Your point about the functionality of trading was pretty much what was being said, but I was not talking about one time trades, like Topotato. I was talking about some form of enduring trade between sides like, "We produce too much of this and do not need it, but it would be nice if we could spice up our meals with some of what you produce too much of. Want to make an extended contract saying we will trade this much of each thing, each turn?" That is more what it would take to trade for chocolate, and that is why it was still interesting to talk about a bit beyond the Topotato aspect.

    Also it was not bickering. Just exploring a topic. At least I didn't feel any negativity in the conversation.

    Maybe Erfworld has a generic Marketplace that all Sides can post their excess goods to, or buy another Side's excess goods. There are a lot of flash games out there where you can still purchase goods from 666KRIESTOR666RULEZ666 even though you are currently at war with that Side. The marketplace is like the honey badger....

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:12 pm 
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    If that were possible, it would have to be through the MK, and we would have seen some indication of such. There should be warehouses or stockpiles surrounding Portal Park, and poor casters like Carnies could earn a small "processing fee" to move said goods from place to place. Instead, the very idea of moving even a corpse into the MK seems groundbreaking.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:11 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    There should be warehouses or stockpiles surrounding Portal Park, and poor casters like Carnies could earn a small "processing fee" to move said goods from place to place.
    You're right; there really should be warehouses in the Magic Kingdom, but I also agree that they probably don't exist since we haven't seen any indication of them by now. Instead, in Lord Crush Part 1 we see that trading is done by riding across Erfworld the long way, pointlessly risking encounters with Snookimonsters and nabs and maybe even aggressive barbarians. How can it be that no one realized that they have a magic portal that can safely transport goods from any capital to any other capital?

    Perhaps shipping is considered a violation of Magic Kingdom neutrality since your enemies would be displeased to see you being supplied by your allies through the Magic Kingdom and that might provoke conflicts within the Magic Kingdom. People seem to accept selling magic as not violating neutrality since the Magic Kingdom can't stop selling magic, but transporting goods from side-to-side might be seen as contrary to the spirit of the Magic Kingdom and not a suitable occupation for a caster, so the casters as a group may have decided to not allow it.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:57 pm 
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    Probably because the only ones available to move products through the MK are casters, and that's a waste of their abilities.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:54 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Probably because the only ones available to move products through the MK are casters, and that's a waste of their abilities.


    Looks like we have found a use for Parsons Soldiers .
    He could start a Trading Post here , it might even help him with building an Alliance and getting back on the good side of the Casters that dont like him being here.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am 
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    Kichumen wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Probably because the only ones available to move products through the MK are casters, and that's a waste of their abilities.


    Looks like we have found a use for Parsons Soldiers .
    He could start a Trading Post here , it might even help him with building an Alliance and getting back on the good side of the Casters that dont like him being here.

    As strategically sound an idea that might be, it'd also be really boring for us to watch in comic-form...Plus, bringing increased non-neutral activity to the Magic Kingdom won't endear him to any of the Casters that dislike his very being there. Only keeping a low profile and acting like he belongs might do that.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:08 pm 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Kichumen wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    Probably because the only ones available to move products through the MK are casters, and that's a waste of their abilities.


    Looks like we have found a use for Parsons Soldiers .
    He could start a Trading Post here , it might even help him with building an Alliance and getting back on the good side of the Casters that dont like him being here.

    As strategically sound an idea that might be, it'd also be really boring for us to watch in comic-form...Plus, bringing increased non-neutral activity to the Magic Kingdom won't endear him to any of the Casters that dislike his very being there. Only keeping a low profile and acting like he belongs might do that.

    Would it be non-neutral activity if he created a shipping business? For a reasonable fee, his soldiers transport resources from one portal to another. Sure, things can only go from capitol to capitol, but it's still much quicker, and he could handle more things than hat magic could.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:35 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Would it be non-neutral activity if he created a shipping business? For a reasonable fee, his soldiers transport resources from one portal to another.
    That might be technically neutral, but it wouldn't be neutral in practice if it caused some side to bring a war into the Magic Kingdom to stop an enemy's shipping from getting through. As things are now Erfworlders can expect to have a chance to intercept trade missions and some sides might be annoyed at losing that ability. I can imagine casters with sides picketing Portal Park to deny access to barbarian casters until the shipping business is shut down.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:24 pm 
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    There's multiple business models Parson could set himself up even without the magic kingdom portals.

    He could just do think-a-grams of probability odds from his bracelet.
    He could set up a Lyft-style taxi service of decrypted Peeps.
    He could set up a network of magic hats and arbitrage goods.
    He could use his probability bracelet and yes/no questions to hunt down unclaimed arkentools and other artifacts still on the map.
    He could use his decrypted toy-a-mancer to Hank Morgan Erfworld by introducing ways of making upkeep without going to war. Isn't there some way of harnessing the thermal energy of a Volcano to produce smuckers?

    And of course, he could just end the game by turtling his kingdom and successfully building a Wonder.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:10 am 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Kichumen wrote:
    Looks like we have found a use for Parsons Soldiers .
    He could start a Trading Post here , it might even help him with building an Alliance and getting back on the good side of the Casters that dont like him being here.

    As strategically sound an idea that might be, it'd also be really boring for us to watch in comic-form...Plus, bringing increased non-neutral activity to the Magic Kingdom won't endear him to any of the Casters that dislike his very being there. Only keeping a low profile and acting like he belongs might do that.

    The "tax" negotiations could be interesting - both the question of what can be extorted from Parson (and any golem-employing competitors that arise) and how it will be distributed/used. Perhaps such conflicts are the reason why it doesn't happen any more.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:40 am 
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    I didn't notice the "B.C." at first, that came up in the comic before with Carnymancers but was a little vague and was only used once. I'm reasonably certain at this point that, based on usage, it means "Be Cool" - or at least some Erfworld variant of that. :D (Edit: I think that was the general consensus before, but it was still vague)

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:19 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Would it be non-neutral activity if he created a shipping business? For a reasonable fee, his soldiers transport resources from one portal to another. Sure, things can only go from capitol to capitol, but it's still much quicker, and he could handle more things than hat magic could.

    I'm pretty sure that would qualify as non-neutral, to be honest. Anything that benefits a specific side rather than everyone (or one side more than another) seems like a non-neutral activity. Such a business definitely would benefit Gobwin Knob more than any other side, and I can't imagine Parson providing fair and equal services to Royal Coalition sides or Charlie compared to sides that might ally with Gobwin Knob.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:40 am 
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    Coming in late to the conversation, but quick observation about Half Upkeep of Rands.

    Instead of consuming a Rand every turn, one could consume a Rand every other turn with half upkeep. It's the same with production but in reverse. A unit required two turns to make and after the price of production is filled on the second day, POP. So, the Stew is actually slowing down the countdown until the next Rand is consumed. That's how I see the automated system of Erf.

    And I have to tell you, I man wept in the chapter where Digdoug discovered he was barbarian. Manly single tears, as if someone had littered on the highway.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:20 am 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Such a business definitely would benefit Gobwin Knob more than any other side, and I can't imagine Parson providing fair and equal services to Royal Coalition sides or Charlie compared to sides that might ally with Gobwin Knob.


    I can see him setting it up to benefit those casters in danger of not making upkeep. That would be a big P.R. move, and that's one thing he knows he needs to work on. He might even offer the service across the board, trusting that his enemies won't hire him.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:50 am 
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    It makes a lot of sense that Charlie actually takes steps to make sure sides see that Carneymancers can't be trusted... had Dove's plan worked out, she'd have been a good example of why you can trust/hire a Carney... but if Charlie offers good deals to them, and at the same time makes them less trustworthy to everyone else, then, a whole class of caster becomes dependent on Charlie to survive.

    It's good business for him to make sure that things go wrong for you if you hire a Carney.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:35 pm 
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    Random thought: If Posbrake abdicated the throne without an heir, would the side end? Would/could he still be alive?

    If there was a betrayal by Charlie, it would remove the chance for Charlie to gain smuckers by ending the side by regicide if that were the case.

    I don't think this is a very likely possibility, but one I just mused on.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 21
     Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:38 pm 
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    YRM_DM wrote:
    If Charlie offers good deals to them, and at the same time makes them less trustworthy to everyone else, then, a whole class of caster becomes dependent on Charlie to survive.
    I like that. Not only would Charlie be getting the entire discipline to himself, but this discipline is the one that Charlie understands better than any other, so he knows how dangerous it can be. That might give him a special motivation to keep it to himself as much as possible. Perhaps Charlie went out of his way to destroy Homekey because they hired a Carniemancer and Numloch's bounty was just a bonus.

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