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 Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
 Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Lilwik wrote:
For the same reason it is probably rare for a Croakamancer to escape the end of her side.


A barbarian croakamancer would certainly be a terrifying prospect, though. Find a good hex to call home, then start making guerilla attacks against targets of opportunity to both maintain yourself with the spoils and build an army to make stronger attacks.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:19 pm 
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    Being a barbarian croakamancer would be WAY easier than living in the MK.
    Just send the minions out hunting once a turn.

    You wouldn't even necessarily need to kill to get more minions, there are enough battles in Erfworld that finding fresh dead couldn't be too hard.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:32 pm 
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    "Sargent/York" - that's a powerfully Bewitching spell.....

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:14 pm 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Apparently, Rob still has at least 2 more episodes left, based on what he just posted on Facebook. Just FYI.

    I'm not seeing that post. In an email update to kickstarter backers he said there would be a couple of Digdoug updates before the new short story began, and that was two updates ago. Can you supply a link?

    Edit: Never mind. Spotted it buried in other comments.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 10:20 pm 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Apparently, Rob still has at least 2 more episodes left, based on what he just posted on Facebook. Just FYI.


    Oh my. And here I was believing those closing words were a Wham Line together with The Ending Changes Everything. I wouldn't mind, the story could have finished right there and it would have been a perfect ending either way.

    But who's complaining? 2 extra surprise episodes of Digdoug is like early Christmas! This one was the Bad Ending, next week we get the Good Ending and later on the True Ending to wrap it up :D

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:25 pm 
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    GWvsJohn wrote:
    I think Dove has been in league with Charlie the whole time (and I didn't think that until just now).


    This, but crank it up to eleven to add a new layer to Charlie's villainy.

    Charlie is the low-paying, zero-benefits, short-term temp agency of Erfworld. He (and/or casters in his thrall) track down desperate casters on the brink of disbanding and 'save' them in exchange for 'working off the debt' at horrendously unfair rates of labor to pay. He never pays them enough to be more than a few turns from being right back on the Short Pier, but he still "has an excellent reputation as an employer" in the Magic Kingdom because the casters he 'helps' feel like they owe him their lives. For this miserly pay he gets regular access to every magical discipline in the world. The worst part is that while Dove is doing something similar with mere social engineering, Charlie's zero-hours contracts are magically binding and inescapable.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:36 pm 
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    Kandarin wrote:
    He never pays them enough to be more than a few turns from being right back on the Short Pier, but he still "has an excellent reputation as an employer" in the Magic Kingdom because the casters he 'helps' feel like they owe him their lives.
    That would not give him an excellent reputation. That would give him a reputation as the employer of last resort, literally the last ruler any caster would want to be employed by and it would mean that all of the best casters of the most popular disciplines are not available to Charlie. On the contrary, I think Charlie values having options and tactical flexibility and he gets that by making sure that most casters (not just the desperate ones) are eager to work for him whenever he needs access to magic.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:43 pm 
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    jeffseadot wrote:
    I wouldn't be surprised if there were an inordinate number of carnies and predictamancers who take the long walk. Predictamancy is supposed to be bad luck, and carnies have a bad reputation pretty much everywhere. Thus, it makes sense that those casters would have a harder time finding work (and might not get paid as much for their services as another caster would; remember, Dove was willing to work for cheap). Indeed, the existence of the Carnyvale seems to indicate that it's more reliable for a carny to make money as an entertainer than as a traditional caster.

    It must be tedious for a caster of an unpopular or untrusted discipline to be continually scraping by on barely-over-upkeep grunt work. I suspect that at least a few of them would *love* to be hired as a caster to a proper side, because they not only would have their upkeep taken care of by someone else indefinitely, but they'd have opportunity to do something more interesting with their talents than provide entertainment for people who wouldn't otherwise look at them. Not to mention the ego boost (or ego salve, more likely) of actually being *wanted*.


    I agree with all this, and I (*edit: as others already have*) would add Croakamancers to the list of barbarian casters who probably find work harder to get due to prejudice against their discipline. Also, Olive Branch showed us how a whole side could be run primarily with Flower Power (at the cost of having a huge side with almost empty towns), but I would imagine that most traditional rulers don't place much value on Florists. Well, maybe Prince Creen.

    Posbrake was heavily criticized by his parent side for trading for Digdoug, even though Dirtamancy seems to be chalk (heh) full of obvious usefulness in war and peacetime alike, helping with construction, golem production, traps, etc. It takes a progressive maverick ruler like Posbrake to see the usefulness of a Dirtmancer, and I see a lot of disciplines on the magic chart that are less obviously useful (or at least, less consistantly practical) than a Dirtmancer. Granted, many of these disciplines we don't know a lot about yet.. but that's exactly because we haven't seen any sides using them!

    So if you’re popped into a counterintuitive or somehow distasteful discipline, and you can’t supplement your lack of gigs with some sort of useful service inside the magic kingdom, it may be the long walk for you. Tough Titans.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:51 am 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    Kandarin wrote:
    He never pays them enough to be more than a few turns from being right back on the Short Pier, but he still "has an excellent reputation as an employer" in the Magic Kingdom because the casters he 'helps' feel like they owe him their lives.
    That would not give him an excellent reputation. That would give him a reputation as the employer of last resort, literally the last ruler any caster would want to be employed by and it would mean that all of the best casters of the most popular disciplines are not available to Charlie. On the contrary, I think Charlie values having options and tactical flexibility and he gets that by making sure that most casters (not just the desperate ones) are eager to work for him whenever he needs access to magic.


    Charlie seems to have plenty of money. I doubt he has to cheat casters to get them to work for him. He probably just pays them a fair wage, so he can rely on their loyal services and focus on double crossing rulers.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:02 am 
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    [tinfoil hat]I am wondering: if it is indeed Clay Dice on the picture, what kind of weird coincidence is it that we see a character on the picture that we assumed had perished off screen at the near conclusion of a other story were we would assume others characters also perished offscreen?

    Coincidence? I think not. ( well, actually I hope not)

    Could it just be fate giving us a bit of signamancy to say: "Hey! we don't kill nice characters off screen: we just don't! keep your hopes high, Postbrake can still be alive somewhere, you'll see."

    [/tinfoil hat]

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:31 am 
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    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    [tinfoil hat]I am wondering: if it is indeed Clay Dice on the picture, what kind of weird coincidence is it that we see a character on the picture that we assumed had perished off screen at the near conclusion of a other story were we would assume others characters also perished offscreen?

    Coincidence? I think not. ( well, actually I hope not)

    Could it just be fate giving us a bit of signamancy to say: "Hey! we don't kill nice characters off screen: we just don't! keep your hopes high, Postbrake can still be alive somewhere, you'll see."

    [/tinfoil hat]

    Isn't the character in question expressly described as a Carneymancer? Wouldn't that mean it can't be Clay?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:58 am 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    [tinfoil hat]I am wondering: if it is indeed Clay Dice on the picture, what kind of weird coincidence is it that we see a character on the picture that we assumed had perished off screen at the near conclusion of a other story were we would assume others characters also perished offscreen?

    Coincidence? I think not. ( well, actually I hope not)

    Could it just be fate giving us a bit of signamancy to say: "Hey! we don't kill nice characters off screen: we just don't! keep your hopes high, Postbrake can still be alive somewhere, you'll see."

    [/tinfoil hat]

    Isn't the character in question expressly described as a Carneymancer? Wouldn't that mean it can't be Clay?



    Is he... I must have missed that, I thought he was just described as sleeping loudly.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:05 am 
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    I think this is where I was assuming he was described as a Carnie...

    Quote:
    A few Carnies sat around on crates, talking quietly. One was passed out completely in the dewy grass. Dove stepped right over him. Digdoug walked around.


    I assumed that meant the passed out guy was included as a Carnie, which would mean he can't be Clay. I'm open to the idea of being proven wrong, though. ^_^

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:07 am 
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    Maybe a Rand still is not tied to money in anyway.

    Maybe it is a "chocolate coin", somehow functionally equivalent to a special form of ration that exactly covers one day of upkeep for one unit.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 3:10 am 
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    0100010 wrote:
    Maybe a Rand still is not tied to money in anyway.

    Maybe it is a "chocolate coin", somehow functionally equivalent to a special form of ration that exactly covers one day of upkeep for one unit.



    In my case, I have a bit of trouble imagining a situation where Erfworld accepts Rands in lieu of shmuckers for upkeep, yet does not have Rands tied to shmuckers in any way. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be weird.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:29 am 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    I think this is where I was assuming he was described as a Carnie...

    Quote:
    A few Carnies sat around on crates, talking quietly. One was passed out completely in the dewy grass. Dove stepped right over him. Digdoug walked around.


    I assumed that meant the passed out guy was included as a Carnie, which would mean he can't be Clay. I'm open to the idea of being proven wrong, though. ^_^


    Could be Digdoug assuming he's a Carny.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 5:44 am 
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    Shockmancers must have it extra tough in the MK. They have no utility skills that others would want to hire them for.

    Altough croakmancers probably don't have it any easier. Not much use for their discipline if there aren't piles of fresh corpses to animate

    And if nothing else, at least this update ends the "You can totally forage to fully cover your upkeep if you're not a prisioner" discussion. Either you work for money or you disband, so you can't just go hunting.

    Berserkas wrote:
    Stanley: Utter moron. Only values Wanda, because she can manipulate him. Stereotypically orders Sizemore to shovel crap, despite the extreme power of Dirtamantic traps and golems. Doesn't even know his other Caster's names.

    Eerr, Stanley ordered Sizemore to shovel crap so he could make crap golems. And that collection of crap golems proved critical in the defense of GK.

    You're also forgetting the part where it was Stanley that ordered the formation of a tri-link to give his side unparalleled strategic intel on the battlefield.

    If Stanley hadn't done so, Hamster would've never learned that you could form mancer links for much greater effects.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 6:24 am 
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    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    And if nothing else, at least this update ends the "You can totally forage to fully cover your upkeep if you're not a prisoner" discussion.
    There was nothing in that time when Jillian was a fugitive that suggested her foraging for food was a special case that couldn't work if she weren't a fugitive, so it still works as evidence that foraging can totally cover upkeep. Now all we have is evidence suggesting the opposite, which doesn't settle anything. On the contrary, now we have to figure out a ways to reconcile the conflicting evidence. Maybe being a fugitive is a special case, or maybe the Magic Kingdom doesn't have enough natural food to let everyone forage for survival. Maybe casters aren't as good at foraging as warlords. Maybe people can easily forage for survival in the Magic Kingdom and Dove is choosing not to tell Digdoug about that.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 6:59 am 
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    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    Shockmancers must have it extra tough in the MK. They have no utility skills that others would want to hire them for.


    Be creative. I can think of several highly profitable, entertainment-oriented niches shockmancers could explore. People who love kinky can be found anywhere.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 20
     Post Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:38 am 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    oslecamo2_temp wrote:
    And if nothing else, at least this update ends the "You can totally forage to fully cover your upkeep if you're not a prisoner" discussion.
    There was nothing in that time when Jillian was a fugitive that suggested her foraging for food was a special case that couldn't work if she weren't a fugitive, so it still works as evidence that foraging can totally cover upkeep. Now all we have is evidence suggesting the opposite, which doesn't settle anything. On the contrary, now we have to figure out a ways to reconcile the conflicting evidence. Maybe being a fugitive is a special case, or maybe the Magic Kingdom doesn't have enough natural food to let everyone forage for survival. Maybe casters aren't as good at foraging as warlords. Maybe people can easily forage for survival in the Magic Kingdom and Dove is choosing not to tell Digdoug about that.

    There was a debate about being able to hunt and forage to cover upkeep? It's pretty clearly stated here:
    Quote:
    Jillian could have hunted one down herself, but they left her a good meaty haunch to roast. After a moment's consideration, she took it, split it, and wedged it between two shale slabs at the edge of her campfire. She set her gwiffons on the remaining carcass, to suck the marrow and absorb the hooves and horns. It added one more day her provisions would last.

    There is nothing in this update that contradicts this. The Magic Kingdom is not wild territory with random critters running around. Every piece of it that we've seen has casters and it's a pretty safe bet that every natural resource has been appropriated by somebody or other. And casters who are about to take the Long Walk can't go foraging elsewhere -- the only way out is through a portal which means they'd have to be allied with a capital side.

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