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 Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
 Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:55 pm 
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Mrtyuh wrote:
(name here) wrote:
I'm honestly a bit surprised how well things went for Delkey until the lighting bolt struck. Usually archers beginning combat immediately adjacent to people with spears do not have a very good time, and Peck seemed pretty confident about the combat strength of the golem stack.

We need to remember how combat works in Erfworld. All units in the same stack as a Chief Warlord, which both Peck and Creen are, receive the Chief's full Leadership Bonus. All units within the same hex receive half of that bonus. So, those archers and the two warlords were receiving the full bonus from Creen. The first thing Creen did was bifurcate Peck. At that point, all Homekey units lost all Leadership Bonuses, unless they were in a stack with a warlord. So, a stack of archers and three warlords was easily able to overwhelm the unled pikers. It's similar to the situation where Haffaton attacked Goodminton's siege at the beginning of Book 0. 22 mid-level firemen and a single level-4 warlord were able to decimate Goodminton's siege and croak 43 Goodminton units before being overwhelmed by numbers, specifically because they had a warlord and the other side did not. It's the same principle here. The stack with Leadership is going to have a significant advantage over the stack without it. Also, Creen's lightsaber seems extremely powerful. He was able to bifurcate Peck, disintegrate a rock golem and disarm Posbrake each with a single blow of his sword.

He didn't just kill Peck, he grabbed Posbrake and went skyward, removing him from the stack.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:06 pm 
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    Liminaut wrote:
    Suppose the prediction was "There will be a massive air attack on the capital, and Posbrake will fall". Well, he just fell.
    That would mean that Predictamancy is the mindless parroting of words being fed to the Predictamancer. I find it hard to believe that a Predictamancer really doesn't know the meaning of the words she says when she makes a Prediction. Every other discipline seems to have subtlety and sophistication when you look at it from the perspective of a caster in that discipline, so I would be very surprised if Predictamancy were just like reading a ticker tape from the future. Surely the Predictamancer would have known if he were using the word "fall" literally or figuratively and he would have taken the time to be sure that he wasn't being misunderstood. He was being paid for an accurate Prediction and it would be bad for business if his Prediction didn't seem to come true.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:35 pm 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    Liminaut wrote:
    Suppose the prediction was "There will be a massive air attack on the capital, and Posbrake will fall". Well, he just fell.
    That would mean that Predictamancy is the mindless parroting of words being fed to the Predictamancer. I find it hard to believe that a Predictamancer really doesn't know the meaning of the words she says when she makes a Prediction. Every other discipline seems to have subtlety and sophistication when you look at it from the perspective of a caster in that discipline, so I would be very surprised if Predictamancy were just like reading a ticker tape from the future. Surely the Predictamancer would have known if he were using the word "fall" literally or figuratively and he would have taken the time to be sure that he wasn't being misunderstood. He was being paid for an accurate Prediction and it would be bad for business if his Prediction didn't seem to come true.



    Depend, if predictamancers have visions, they may not know if the visions are to be taken as they are or are loaded with symbolism. A predictamancer seeing the king litteraly fall to his death might assume it is symbolism and not something to take exactly as seen on the vision.

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    Last edited by ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ on Thu May 01, 2014 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:00 pm 
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    Here's a thought experiment for the age based turn theory.

    A barbarian faction attacks a capital site. In a twist of Dittomancy and Fate, the exact same thing happens in a separate battlezone due north.

    Due to convoluted circumstances (e.g. both enemy rulers get incapacitated and hidden out of the enemy's site in the garrison, only croaking upon the natural turn end), two new sides are started at the exact same time.

    A couple turns later, these sides go to war. Which one goes first?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:37 pm 
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    ManaCaster wrote:
    Here's a thought experiment for the age based turn theory.

    A barbarian faction attacks a capital site. In a twist of Dittomancy and Fate, the exact same thing happens in a separate battlezone due north.

    Due to convoluted circumstances (e.g. both enemy rulers get incapacitated and hidden out of the enemy's site in the garrison, only croaking upon the natural turn end), two new sides are started at the exact same time.

    A couple turns later, these sides go to war. Which one goes first?


    Presumably, they'd go into the list in a random order.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:19 pm 
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    GWvsJohn wrote:
    A few thoughts.

    The way the lightning blast is described is certainly meant to imply that Dove shot it. She likely used Carnymancy to fire it herself.

    Whispri's theory that Bucky is the source for the book cooking knowledge is spot on. She's 100% the traitor.
    I would assume that they were sending in false statements, but they got caught by the moneymancer. They simply screwed up the report, and the Moneymancer concluded something strange was going on. If you gave a fake map of an impossible city to your dirtamancer they could determine it was fake as well.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:28 pm 
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    LordAcme wrote:
    “And I shall have one spell upon me,” said Posbrake, with intense conviction. “A Carnymancy spell. A spell that breaks the rules. A spell that says, ‘this unit, for this turn, cannot be hit by any ranged attack.”

    Ruh roh. Either we have a continuity error, or....

    Spoiler: show
    Dove renewed the spell on the last turn change. But, she would have had to do so at a distance through her window.


    Guess we'll know next update!

    "Turns" has multiple meanings. (Like "days" actually) It can mean a complete day night cycle: "Jillian has lived for 10,000 turns". Or here:
    http://www.erfworld.com/2013/02/inner-p ... isode-062/
    Quote:
    Jillian had never heard the word “years” before, but she somehow understood its meaning. Why would you need a word for a period of 365 turns, though? Stupid.

    Or it can mean the time one side can act in the day night cycle. Language like English has words that mean multiple things.
    This is presumably the complete day night cycle. No continuity error.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:28 pm 
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    Lamech wrote:
    GWvsJohn wrote:
    A few thoughts.

    The way the lightning blast is described is certainly meant to imply that Dove shot it. She likely used Carnymancy to fire it herself.

    Whispri's theory that Bucky is the source for the book cooking knowledge is spot on. She's 100% the traitor.
    I would assume that they were sending in false statements, but they got caught by the moneymancer. They simply screwed up the report, and the Moneymancer concluded something strange was going on. If you gave a fake map of an impossible city to your dirtamancer they could determine it was fake as well.


    I disagree. Dove knew she needed to trick a Moneymancer with her tricks. If it was t possible she wouldn't have tried.

    I'm positive Bucky is the leak. In fact, I'm going to go bet some quatloo on it.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:26 pm 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    He didn't just kill Peck, he grabbed Posbrake and went skyward, removing him from the stack.

    Really? Then who sliced Peck in half? The archers?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:31 pm 
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    GWvsJohn wrote:
    I disagree. Dove knew she needed to trick a Moneymancer with her tricks. If it was t possible she wouldn't have tried.

    I'm positive Bucky is the leak. In fact, I'm going to go bet some quatloo on it.

    Who said it wasn't possible? Maybe Dove just failed to succeed...

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:39 pm 
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    Xarx wrote:
    Lipkin wrote:
    He didn't just kill Peck, he grabbed Posbrake and went skyward, removing him from the stack.

    Really? Then who sliced Peck in half? The archers?

    Reread the statement. He said Creen didn't just kill Peck. Not that he didn't kill Peck.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:08 am 
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    Goshen wrote:
    So, it looks like the trap simply worked the way it was supposed to. Creen was a flying enemy near the tower and a bolt of lightning just happened to strike the remote tower at that time.

    Maybe, maybe not. Myself and a few others expect the lightning strikes from the trap to come from the spire Digdoug constructed at the top of the tower. Of course, just because we expect it doesn't mean that is the case. It is entirely possible that the lightning will emanate from the tower itself, as happened with the bolt that struck Creen. The big question is whether or not the trap has been activated. It has been stated several times that it will only work after being activated. We know Digdoug did not activate it; he was too preoccupied with the scroll. I doubt Dove could activate, since she isn't a Homekey unit. It is possible Peck activated it before he was croaked, but that happened very quickly. It's also possible that Posbrake activated it. Still, given the big deal made over activating the trap, it seems odd that it wasn't explicitly stated when someone did so. So, at this point, I don't know if the trap is what struck Creen or if the bolt originated from another source. I'm leaning towards the other source theory, but I can see it going either way. I feel we currently lack enough information to definitively determine the source.

    Also, all Dove would need to be the source of the attack is some basic competency in Shockamancy. We've seen some casters with cross-class affinity, so it's possible that Dove could know enough to fire a lightning bolt. She wouldn't even need that. Most casters can fire hoboken. Dove may have used Carnymancy to change her hoboken into a lightning bolt.

    Lipkin wrote:
    He didn't just kill Peck, he grabbed Posbrake and went skyward, removing him from the stack.

    I didn't mention it for a couple of reasons. First, the two golems in the stack were destroyed before that happened. Second, I think the spearmen are in different stacks, so it really didn't affect the bonuses applying to their stacks the way Peck's demise did.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:56 am 
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    The bonuses do cover multiple stacks, just not to the same degree. Suddenly losing all leadership and being faced by three warlords, the unlead troops were boned.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:31 am 
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    We know that a Chief Warlord's bonus applies to multiple stacks. We also know that Wanda's bonus to Decrypted applies to multiple stacks, but that's a special case. I don't know how a ruler's bonus applies to a side. I assume that since King Posbrake is a warlord, his bonus would at least apply to his own stack, but have we seen anything that says how a ruler's bonus affects the side as a whole?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 4:04 am 
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    Count me in for Bucky being a traitor, and Dove having something to do with Creen's fall.

    if only he was wearing a hat, so that DigDoug could end up with a Creen's Cap to remind him of this event.

    Creen sounds exactly like the pompous idiot version of Slately. I guess the Royal Crown Coalition's view of royalty was not confined to this one part of Erfworld!

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:28 am 
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    Arky wrote:
    if only he was wearing a hat, so that DigDoug could end up with a Creen's Cap to remind him of this event.


    Well, at leasta Creen's shot.

    And DigDoug ended up being Creen's saver.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:10 am 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Xarx wrote:
    Really? Then who sliced Peck in half? The archers?

    Reread the statement. He said Creen didn't just kill Peck. Not that he didn't kill Peck.

    :oops:

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:10 am 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Xarx wrote:
    Really? Then who sliced Peck in half? The archers?

    Reread the statement. He said Creen didn't just kill Peck. Not that he didn't kill Peck.

    :oops:

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 12:18 pm 
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    GWvsJohn wrote:
    Lamech wrote:
    GWvsJohn wrote:
    A few thoughts.

    The way the lightning blast is described is certainly meant to imply that Dove shot it. She likely used Carnymancy to fire it herself.

    Whispri's theory that Bucky is the source for the book cooking knowledge is spot on. She's 100% the traitor.
    I would assume that they were sending in false statements, but they got caught by the moneymancer. They simply screwed up the report, and the Moneymancer concluded something strange was going on. If you gave a fake map of an impossible city to your dirtamancer they could determine it was fake as well.


    I disagree. Dove knew she needed to trick a Moneymancer with her tricks. If it was t possible she wouldn't have tried.

    I'm positive Bucky is the leak. In fact, I'm going to go bet some quatloo on it.


    It's entirely possible Dove simply screwed up. Carnymancy allows her to change the numbers in the report, but that doesn't necessarily mean the faked numbers are convincing. Even if the Moneymancer can't detect the tampering itself, they could notice that the numbers don't add up, or one day has internally consistent numbers but could not possibly be a result of prior spending, like if the unit upkeep number would have required spending more money on making units than they actually did in the last sixty turns in light of the fluctuations in upkeep from casualties in earlier turns.

    As for the "for this turn" thing, that's a pretty common bit of fuzzy phrasing. Frequently in games an effect will last from when it's cast to the start of the user's next turn or possibly the next turn of whomever's turn it was cast on. This is usually denoted with a special phrase for a complete cycle of turns, such as round, but Erfworld doesn't seem to have a term for that. It could also last until nightfall/daybreak, which appears to be what happened here.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:05 pm 
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    Mrtyuh wrote:
    Goshen wrote:
    So, it looks like the trap simply worked the way it was supposed to. Creen was a flying enemy near the tower and a bolt of lightning just happened to strike the remote tower at that time.

    Maybe, maybe not. Myself and a few others expect the lightning strikes from the trap to come from the spire Digdoug constructed at the top of the tower. Of course, just because we expect it doesn't mean that is the case. It is entirely possible that the lightning will emanate from the tower itself, as happened with the bolt that struck Creen. The big question is whether or not the trap has been activated. It has been stated several times that it will only work after being activated. We know Digdoug did not activate it; he was too preoccupied with the scroll. I doubt Dove could activate, since she isn't a Homekey unit. It is possible Peck activated it before he was croaked, but that happened very quickly. It's also possible that Posbrake activated it. Still, given the big deal made over activating the trap, it seems odd that it wasn't explicitly stated when someone did so. So, at this point, I don't know if the trap is what struck Creen or if the bolt originated from another source. I'm leaning towards the other source theory, but I can see it going either way. I feel we currently lack enough information to definitively determine the source.

    Agreed. IMHO, my explanation is a little more likely, just because it is simpler, but we really need more information.

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