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 Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:34 pm 
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cheeseaholic wrote:
Typo:

"Then six of the archers rose in unison, drew their bows, and loosed a volley at Digdoug faster than he could apprehend."

Unless he's considering grabbing the arrows out of the air perhaps.

Apprehend also means to understand or perceive.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:49 pm 
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    Could Dove change the odds of croaking from that fall in the water pit to help the king and incapacitate Creen to end this fight? How would homekey deel with the remaining units?

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:57 pm 
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    Well if she REALLY wanted to save them, I'm sure Dove could just remove that rule that falling causes croaking/damage/incapacitation on the king and Digdoug.
    However, I'm assuming that the reason Doug picked that trap is because it would negate fall mechanics, so probably no need for Dove to intervene.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:00 pm 
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    Delkey would have been within their rights to declare the alliance over tbh, but they've gone a long way too far. And over internal policy, not division of war spoils or the like. Still, it seems the Titans have made their favour known: That worthless Boop Creen got smote!

    Presuming for a moment, that Creen didn't find out about the Carnymancy by means of spies in the Magick Kingdom, magic of his own Side, or even guesswork... Dove I think, pretty much has to be on the level, her spell on Posbrake worked after all, as, it seems, did the lightning trap. I doubt Posbrake would have ratted out himself. Charlie had a contract to keep. The Warlords who knew or could have known are both dead. While Digdoug's the protagonist and is clearly loyal to his King. And that leaves... Bucky, the woman scorned. I hope I'm wrong, but...

    Kaed wrote:
    I'm torn about the whole Royal Conduct thing. On the one hand, a lot of the stuff they espouse is about honor and honesty, and that's kinda nice. But at the same time they're so titan's disbanded far up their own asses that I want to punch them.

    I sorta wonder if the earliest royalty (the ones supposedly created by the titans to rule) were genuinely concerned about their subjects and trying to rule fairly, but over time the concept of Nobility has been corrupted to the concept of "I'm better than you so deal with it."

    Personally I suspect that Royal Sides were created as 'NPC' Sides. Computer controlled armies in all but name. It would help if we knew which of their holy books contains the stuff about royalty, I mean, if it's in the book of fanon...

    shamelessmerc wrote:
    We don't know anything about Uniroyal, but Queen Bea herself seemed a nice enough person.

    In a pitilessly evil sort of way? She murdered her own daughter and exterminated her own Side, rather than have them live at peace. A true monster.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:06 pm 
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    shamelessmerc wrote:
    I think the lightning trap triggered automatically - a "hostile" (ie. non allied) flying unit approaching the tower. If that is the case, it amuses me that it was Creen acting "honourably" (by not dropping his brother) that triggered it.
    That's not possible. The lightning trap never activated during the fake battle with the archons even though they were technically hostile units and clearly attacking the tower, and the reason that the trap never activated was because Digdoug was ordered not to activate it. It was made pretty clear to me that the trap would need to be activated deliberately by someone before it would fire.

    The fact that Creen was shot by lightning from somewhere below Digdoug's feet is absolute proof that Creen was shot by Dove. There's no doubt that's a magical attack, not archery, and on the surface that seems to mean that Dove was trying to assassinate Posbrake for the bounty. That certainly seems like the natural reason why she would shoot Creen at exactly that moment. She had no way of knowing that Digdoug was ready to spring that water trap. On the other hand, Carnymancy can be tricky so we can't guarantee that the obvious is really true. Just as Carnymancy protected Posbrake from arrows and made Sylvia unkillable, maybe Dove used Carnymancy to guarantee that Posbrake would survive the fall and Digdoug's water trap just happens to be the bit of debris that deflects that arrow.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:06 pm 
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    Oh for the love of Signamancy, let's PLEASE not open the Queen Bea shouting match again.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:11 pm 
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    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    Could Dove change the odds of croaking from that fall in the water pit to help the king and incapacitate Creen to end this fight? How would homekey deel with the remaining units?

    If Creen is incapacitated, the biggest threat are his two captains, who were decimating unled Homekey troops. Still, Homekey has numerical superiority within the city and probably warlords other than Posbrake and Peck. Now that Posbrake is out of harms way, Homekey should be able to overwhelm them. Also, Posbrake seemed confident that Homekey was strong enough to win the war against Delkey, so they probably have an overall stronger army. The main threat from Delkey is that force three hexes away across the river. Still, I imagine a Carny could cast a spell on the walls that states, "For this turn, these walls cannot be dug through." If the army tries to go through the tunnels, my money's on the side with the Dirtamancer. That leaves Charlie's archons in the airspace. Both Posbrake and Peck seemed confident about being able to repel them if they landed. This force of archons is about the same size as the force that could take Gobwin Knob's garrison in Book 1, but I think Homekey probably has a stronger contingent in their capital than Gobwin Knob had in theirs. Anyway, if Creen croaks, I would imagine Charlie's contract with Delkey would become void, since there is no way for him to oversee a transfer of power. If Homekey can hold out long enough for them to reinforce their capital, they'll probably prevail in the end.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 pm 
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    I think the bigger question is this. Regardless of how the fight turns out, did what Creen said have an impact on Posbrake?

    He did give the stand down order. What if Creen changed his mind? The fight really might be over regardless of stats or tactics.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:26 pm 
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    0beron wrote:
    Well if she REALLY wanted to save them, I'm sure Dove could just remove that rule that falling causes croaking/damage/incapacitation on the king and Digdoug.
    However, I'm assuming that the reason Doug picked that trap is because it would negate fall mechanics, so probably no need for Dove to intervene.



    from episode 4
    "{...}Could a master-class Dirtamancer tunnel fast enough to use all of his juice up first? If he did leap or fall, could he create a water trap or something below him that would deaden his impact and mitigate the fall damage?

    Water traps{...}"

    mitigiate not negate...

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:32 pm 
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    jbevermore wrote:
    I think the bigger question is this. Regardless of how the fight turns out, did what Creen said have an impact on Posbrake?

    He did give the stand down order. What if Creen changed his mind? The fight really might be over regardless of stats or tactics.

    I imagine that Posbrake had simply decided that abdicating was a better alternative to being strangled or dropped. The fight was over, but Delkey had won. Now, Homekey has a chance of prevailing. The big question now is who can secure the water trap and its three occupants first, the Homekey units on the ground or Charlie's archons? Of course, depending how close they are, the archons might be able to catch Creen and/or the others before they reach the trap.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:49 pm 
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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:38 pm 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    shamelessmerc wrote:
    I think the lightning trap triggered automatically - a "hostile" (ie. non allied) flying unit approaching the tower. If that is the case, it amuses me that it was Creen acting "honourably" (by not dropping his brother) that triggered it.
    That's not possible. The lightning trap never activated during the fake battle with the archons even though they were technically hostile units and clearly attacking the tower, and the reason that the trap never activated was because Digdoug was ordered not to activate it. It was made pretty clear to me that the trap would need to be activated deliberately by someone before it would fire.

    Doug was concentrating on the towers spell including the trap - his attention was occupied with the Trap spell thus probably freeing up the tower. Hopefully this will be cleared up in the next update.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:45 pm 
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    and.. it appears that Kings can abdicate. Not sure if they have to have an heir to do that. They also don't disband and still stay part of the side. I wonder if that will come into play with Gobwin Knob with Parson maybe becoming Overlord temporarily.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:03 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    and.. it appears that Kings can abdicate. Not sure if they have to have an heir to do that. They also don't disband and still stay part of the side. I wonder if that will come into play with Gobwin Knob with Parson maybe becoming Overlord temporarily.



    Or maybe Stanley popping an heir/ finishing the heir popping of in the city of Spacerock, giving the reign of power to the heir and getting back to the job he loves and does best: being a warlord.

    Do we know for sure that units production is interupted by the conquering of a city? We know heirs can only be poped in the capital, but spacerock is GK capital right now... it seems... convinient to use this as a way to get a new character in the story, a charismatic prince like Stanley always wished for.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:38 pm 
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    Yeah, the issue of what's going to happen to Jetstone's "aborted" Heir has come up before. I don't recall all the particulars of our discussion back in the day, but I do remembering bringing up the example of what happened at GK City following the Volcano Uncroaking. The City was reduced to a 1, thus incapable of normally producing a Dwagon, but the next day it completed the Dwagon who had been in production anyway. So As long as Spacerock remains at least a 1, we might get an Heir through this rare loophole. But I have a vague memory of somebody having a countertheory or contradicting evidence to that idea.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:43 pm 
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    joosy wrote:
    and.. it appears that Kings can abdicate. Not sure if they have to have an heir to do that. They also don't disband and still stay part of the side.
    We already knew that rulers can abdicate from B0E32. We also know that Olive turning while Overlady would be the end of Haffaton, with the usual disbanding of field units from B0E68. I expect that turning and abdication have the same effect.

    Unless there is some unknown rule that prevents it, I think it is clear what would happen if a ruler abdicated without an heir. It would be exactly the same as if the ruler died, the end of the side. If the ruler did it in the field then the ruler would disband, and otherwise the ruler would be frozen in time in a neutral city just like all of his former subjects. Its such a crazy thing to do that I wouldn't be surprised if Erfworld did not allow it simply to protect sides from their own deranged rulers.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:45 pm 
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    Man, how awesome a royal heir to succeed to Stanley would be? Juste to shut the royalist ganging on GK up and to help GK find allies in the war on Charlie. That heir isn't born yet and he/she is already awesome.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:13 pm 
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    ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
    joosy wrote:
    and.. it appears that Kings can abdicate. Not sure if they have to have an heir to do that. They also don't disband and still stay part of the side. I wonder if that will come into play with Gobwin Knob with Parson maybe becoming Overlord temporarily.



    Or maybe Stanley popping an heir/ finishing the heir popping of in the city of Spacerock, giving the reign of power to the heir and getting back to the job he loves and does best: being a warlord.

    Do we know for sure that units production is interupted by the conquering of a city? We know heirs can only be poped in the capital, but spacerock is GK capital right now... it seems... convinient to use this as a way to get a new character in the story, a charismatic prince like Stanley always wished for.

    I also think I remember reading that a city will continue to pop the units of it's original side unless the city is razed. Like, A Jetstone city would pop stabbers and gumps even after it fell under GK control, but if GK razed the city and rebuilt, it would instead pop Twolls.

    That being said, Slately seemed to think that the heir was going to be sacrificed. I also have a hard time seeing the production queue transferring. It would be cool if it did, but I think not.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:22 pm 
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    The heir was removed from the production queue when they changed capitals, before the city fell.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 18
     Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:43 pm 
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    I'm pretty sure that we've never heard anything about what happens to units that are part-way produced when a city gets captured, but I expect they are cancelled. A side gets to choose what it produces and when, so it's almost sure that a side can cancel a unit at any point before it actually pops. If so then that would obviously be done before a city is captured so that the enemy doesn't get the benefit of the unit the previous owners of the city were producing. If it isn't done automatically by Erfworld then it would be done by the previous owners of the city.

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