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 Post subject: Digdoug - Episode 11
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:53 am 
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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 am 
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    Nice. A little insight on Carny magic, and a little more on Duty.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:03 am 
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    Well if she really is just manipulating the King and Digdoug, she must be doing a very good job of it though.

    She mentioned a willingness to turn though, if the King would let her move out of the dungeon. Maybe Digdoug, as Chief Caster, should follow up on that in the morning? I mean, it does fit with the story they were using. Even if it is known that Numloch lacks a Carnymancer, they could claim she was a mercenary they hired and that they captured.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:42 am 
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    Deezee wrote:
    She mentioned a willingness to turn though, if the King would let her move out of the dungeon. Maybe Digdoug, as Chief Caster, should follow up on that in the morning? I mean, it does fit with the story they were using. Even if it is known that Numloch lacks a Carnymancer, they could claim she was a mercenary they hired and that they captured.


    On the other hand, if Dove does turn, it probably spells bad things for Homekey, since she seems to live in the Magic Kingdom again when Parson is charging through there...assuming we correctly identified that character.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:02 am 
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    Well, this didn't help the "is she, or isn't she?" debate.
    I prefer to think that she is, she's pretty much telling Digdoug that she is and is still getting away with it.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:05 am 
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    Quote:
    Godzfirefly said: On the other hand, if Dove does turn, it probably spells bad things for Homekey, since she seems to live in the Magic Kingdom again when Parson is charging through there...assuming we correctly identified that character.


    Just because Dove hangs out in the magic kingdom, doesn't mean she doesn't have a side. When she is in the magic kingdom, she likely hangs out with the carnymancers and would participate in disrupting Parson's run.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:27 am 
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    I'm thinking we get some more insight into the old, "what is the true nature of Signamancy" debate.

    Quote:
    “Everything’s a show, Digdoug,” she said, with a wistful gaze. “Nobody understands that but the Carnies and the Signamancers. Of course I’m putting on a show. I put on a show wherever I go. And so do you, hon. You just don’t know it.”


    Perhaps as well as being able to break the rules, Carnymancers can break the signs, or what the mean?
    That sounds a lot like Foolamancy, but there has to be a profound difference between the two. Perhaps Foolamancy covers up signamancy, while Carnymancy actually changes what the Signamancy means?
    When it comes to a money-record, like in Digdoug's story, perhaps a Follamancer would make you see different numbers, but a Carnymancer would completely change what, say, the number 4 means. Or instead of equations balancing at 1=1, a Carnymancer could change the rules so 1=3.2564 or something like that.

    Regardless, we learn that Signamancy and Carnymancy share something that no other discipline does.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:52 am 
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    Falcon X wrote:
    Perhaps Foolamancy covers up signamancy, while Carnymancy actually changes what the Signamancy means?


    I'm unsure a Foolamancer would have been able to fool a Moneymancer's Moneymancy senses, while Carnymancy clearly can.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:40 am 
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    So, there is a link between carnymancy and signamancy, which only makes me more convinced Parson is a Signamancer.

    Judy's story was that of The Wizard of Oz. Parson's summoning brought up Tron imagery. But I also feel like there is some Matrix or Inception mixed into the story as well. Like, Carnies realize Erf isn't real, so the rules can be broken. But the more they break the rules, the more they draw attention and hostility to themselves.

    In Inception, in a dream, they can break reality, making endless staircases, and doing other impossible things, and you only notice they are impossible once it is pointed out to you. If a Carny were doing impossible things, but can only get away with it by literally cheating and hoping that Erf itself doesn't notice, that would be a very good reason to not disclose the extent of their abilities. If people know, they can look for the cheats, and then they can't do it any more. Whatever the case is, it definitely seems like Carnies are reality warpers of some kind.

    Crap, now I want to see a story about Carnies pulling a heist.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:59 am 
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    Lipkin wrote:
    Crap, now I want to see a story about Carnies pulling a heist.


    Only if the four casters involved are named Dallas, Chains, Wolf, and Hoxton. They should probably work for a thinkamacer named Bain too. :twisted:

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:48 pm 
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    To be honest, I felt like this was a bit of a wasted update. We learned the SIgnamancers 'get' Carnymancy well, and that's about it. No real insight into Dove, no better understanding of magic, no development of the political or tacictal situation. :\

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:05 pm 
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    Ditto wrote:
    To be honest, I felt like this was a bit of a wasted update. We learned the SIgnamancers 'get' Carnymancy well, and that's about it. No real insight into Dove, no better understanding of magic, no development of the political or tacictal situation. :\

    I think it was less that Signamancers understand Carnymancy, and more that Signamancers and Carnies share an understanding of some truth about Erf world. Like how G-Strings are universal, but only Thinkomancers are aware of them.

    But I kind of agree. I want to get to the action already. With Lord Crush's story being so short, I'm kind of anxious to get to the main thrust of this arc.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:10 pm 
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    I felt like we did get an insight into Dove, Doug, and the downtrodden caster in general, honestly. So, I did enjoy the episode.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:26 pm 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    I felt like we did get an insight into Dove, Doug, and the downtrodden caster in general, honestly. So, I did enjoy the episode.


    I feel, as Dig Doug does, that I learnt too much about what Dove and Posbrake were doing :mrgreen:

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:28 pm 
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    Godzfirefly wrote:
    Deezee wrote:
    She mentioned a willingness to turn though, if the King would let her move out of the dungeon. Maybe Digdoug, as Chief Caster, should follow up on that in the morning? I mean, it does fit with the story they were using. Even if it is known that Numloch lacks a Carnymancer, they could claim she was a mercenary they hired and that they captured.


    On the other hand, if Dove does turn, it probably spells bad things for Homekey, since she seems to live in the Magic Kingdom again when Parson is charging through there...assuming we correctly identified that character.

    Then there are also bad things going on for Gobwin Knob, since we have seen Sizemore in the MK for a longer duration than we have seen Dove (if that is her name), and Wanda, Jack, and Maggie have been there for about the same amount of time.

    This update gave us a bit of a scale of the abuse Carnies put up with on a daily basis. Dirtamancers gain very little respect from the main realm, but are considered rock stars in MK. Carnies get poor treatment in both realms. They must have some pretty hefty secrets that they guard. The reality hacking analogy fits in very well, especially since the best hackers would do it in a way so as not to get noticed. Sure, it is possible to make a never ending staircase, but that can get pointed out and disrupt the show/dream/whatever. Changing the number of stairs to be 5x what they should still allows for progress, but at a much slower rate and can easily be rationalized away. Typical carny trick -- if no one ever wins the game, then people stop playing. If the crowd sees someone else win, they are much more willing to keep trying, and keep spending money to try.

    And, this update gave us the carny code of "You always get paid". Does that mean Charlie is a money-grubbing mercenary trying to stockpile funds and willing to do anything when the price is right, or is he following his carny code? So much insight in so few words.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:46 pm 
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    Sallo wrote:
    Well, this didn't help the "is she, or isn't she?" debate.
    I prefer to think that she is, she's pretty much telling Digdoug that she is and is still getting away with it.


    The best lies are shrouded in truth. Dove understands this im sure even if she isn't setting them up for a fall.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:54 pm 
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    Quote:
    “Carnymancy is Stage Magic. Arright? We put on a show...Everything’s a show, Digdoug,” she said, with a wistful gaze. “Nobody understands that but the Carnies and the Signamancers. "


    made me think of

    Quote:
    All the world's a stage,
    And all the men and women merely players...


    and all the rest of it. It actually seems really fitting.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:05 pm 
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    bladestorm wrote:
    Then there are also bad things going on for Gobwin Knob, since we have seen Sizemore in the MK for a longer duration than we have seen Dove (if that is her name), and Wanda, Jack, and Maggie have been there for about the same amount of time.


    Clearly, there is a difference between following a main character there and seeing a minor character that happens to be there at the key time.

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:47 pm 
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    Dang I wanted to see the Carnyvale. Oh well!

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     Post subject: Re: Digdoug - Episode 11
     Post Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:49 pm 
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    If this update appears to not really show what Carnymancy's about, then the Carnymancy worked on you. I think we just got a full demonstration of it. Carnymancers don't change the shape of things like a dirtamancer does, or even the look of things like a foolamancer does - they just know how to shape the story the viewer tells himself. A dirtamancer can shape a rock like a lemon. A foolamancer can disguise a rock to look exactly like a lemon. A carnymancer can point to a rock, jokingly say it's obviously a rock not a lemon, and then point out there's a lemon behind that rock - so it really is a "lemon rock" - isn't it? The carny cheats Fate, cheats the rules of Duty, cheats the Moneymancers - not by hiding and deceiving, but by finding just the right story to satisfy the rule without it really being true. Their juice is used to find just the right spin, just the right place to be, just the right way to say things to get what they want - even when it means admitting that they're untrustworthy just to gain trust. They don't change the person they cast on - they just read and react, changing their situation - their Fate - with magically-perfected senses. They're experts in body language, who know how to use stories to manipulate people and make them comfortable or uncomfortable at just the right times to make them change the way they see a situation. Dove revealed nothing here, nor gave Digdoug any more reason to trust her other than admitting she was untrustworthy, and citing caster secrets as her motivation for it. She sensed his weakpoints of discomfort about her relationship with the King, his attraction to her, and people looking down on his discipline - and played him with them. Her tense demeanor when he questioned her discipline was just as much a part of the act as anything - all part of the show. It was all an elaborate play - executed perfectly - because that's what Carnies do. They know you know their game is rigged - but they manage to convince you, for just long enough, that because they like you it doesn't matter if it's rigged. You can do it - it's only rigged for everyone else.

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