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 Post subject: Lord Crush - Part 4
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:41 am 
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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:05 pm 
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    Firstpost!
    Couldn't resist, sorry

    Man...Banhammer is starting to get some competition....

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:05 pm 
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    I guess nobody ever told King Scrofula that when you're in a hole, stop digging!

    I am curious, though. It was established earlier that treaties can be guaranteed with auto-magic monetary penalties if one side breaks them. Wouldn't that be the easiest way to safeguard a multi-party alliance? Establish a very, very high schmucker cost for betrayal, one that would instantly bankrupt any side that tried, and it would make defection to an outside entity a very difficult move to pull off without self-immolating.

    For that matter, what happens if a side gets stuck with a bill that it can't pay? Does Erf force them to disband units and raize cities until they can?

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:11 pm 
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    Oh, man. Screw that guy. Screw that stupid, stupid king.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:43 pm 
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    No... no... It didn't happen, it just didn't happen...

    And since it didn't happen, here's what happened: it's all a plot to turn Lord Crush. Dunkin has casted Foolamancy on Lord Crush, in order for him to lose all hope and turn. It was all an act from the start. I KNOW it is so! Dunkin is not dead!

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:58 pm 
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    The ruler of Crush's side is Queen Post. He refers to her as his mother. He says that if he ever rises to the throne, he'll keep a fool. Can we surmise that Lord Crush is actually Prince Crush?

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:03 pm 
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    Poor Dunkin.

    youngstormlord wrote:
    No... no... It didn't happen, it just didn't happen...

    And since it didn't happen, here's what happened: it's all a plot to turn Lord Crush. Dunkin has casted Foolamancy on Lord Crush, in order for him to lose all hope and turn. It was all an act from the start. I KNOW it is so! Dunkin is not dead!


    Wake Dunkin with thy posting! I would thou couldst!

    Lipkin wrote:
    The ruler of Crush's side is Queen Post. He refers to her as his mother. He says that if he ever rises to the throne, he'll keep a fool. Can we surmise that Lord Crush is actually Prince Crush?


    That, or he has been adopted. Which sounds strange.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:17 pm 
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    I'm just interested to see a sentient unit be disbanded, on screen. Though it'd been suggested numerous times in-comic, I had always sort of thought that maybe it wasn't really possible, an old wives' tale. After all, Queen Bea didn't do it though she could have, and Don King similarly hasn't, though he probably believes he has plenty of reasons to.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:09 pm 
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    Quote:
    This was the definitive plan. Each piece of it was well understood, fairly predictable, and within their own power to control (not even “allied” power, but Firstpost and Squashcourt’s power—no diplomacy required). The ruse was simple and plausible. The enemy would bite on the bait, because it would sound like exactly what they wanted to hear.

    I like the way that with such a short description this gives just enough information that you can kind of see the outline of the plan without actually saying anything about it.

    I'm guessing since there's no diplomacy required and that they'd be able to predict Bullyclub's actions that the plan would be something along the lines of having Squashcourt tell Bullyclub that both Tapwater and Protip have agreed to stay neutral. This would mean Bullyclub would be delighted to be attacking Firstpost alone first, and the Squashcourt-Firstpost border is across a desert which usually has significant move penalties for non-desert units in games like this, making their advance slow and predictable and exploitable while the Alliance would manoeuvre to bring all four armies into position to make a crippling attack on Bullyclub all at once.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:23 pm 
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    You know, in comparison, Stanley doesn't seem like such a bad leader anymore.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:24 pm 
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    Jack Snipe wrote:
    "The Titans did bless the Royals with many gifts," he said, "but around their ankles tied a stone called 'vanity.'


    It seems that King Scrofula has a small mountain tied to his ankles. He even had the arrogance to assume that Crush would automatically turn on his own side once he was taken prisoner, and is baffled as to why he hasn't yet. What kind of life has the king of Squashcourt led that he has never had to deal with being denied anything in his whole life?!

    Good luck, Lord Crush: I hope you and your side survive this ordeal.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:31 pm 
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    Zeal wrote:
    You know, in comparison, Stanley doesn't seem like such a bad leader anymore.

    He hasn't seemed like a bad leader to me in a very long time. Selfish, certainly, but not unreasonable. Even his biggest kick the dog moment, ordering the Eyemancer link to be broken, had purpose. He needed Jack to veil his escape. Even when Parson supposedly disobeyed orders, he didn't disband him.

    He's not the best strategist, but he isn't a monster like the RCC likes to make him out to be.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:21 pm 
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    Unless being thrown in the dungeon was part of the plan, this isn't looking good.

    What he should have said was "If Bullyclub was planning a doublecross, they would have amassed a much larger army than they would need for their stated goals" and then when the King looked at the size of their forces, it would have helped convince him.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:23 pm 
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    By the way, are we supposed to understand what the vial of amber liquid is?

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:34 pm 
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    name lips wrote:
    By the way, are we supposed to understand what the vial of amber liquid is?


    Quote:
    Scrofula’s best whiskey comes in veeeeery shiny bottles


    Or so I read it.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:38 pm 
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    name lips wrote:
    By the way, are we supposed to understand what the vial of amber liquid is?

    It's whiskey.


    My favorite interpretation of a Fool was a man who could tell his Liege that he is wrong, and why, or to remind him of his mortality, and get away with it. Scruffles disbanding his is a definite sign that he's too far gone past the Event Horizon to bother reasoning with. I can see it now; Crush and Axe forming a Barred Teeth Alliance to overthrow Scrumpy and save the Union!

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:49 pm 
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    DyolfKnip wrote:
    For that matter, what happens if a side gets stuck with a bill that it can't pay? Does Erf force them to disband units and raze cities until they can?
    No, we've seen with Wanda and Jack and the Deal of a Lifetime that when you're under a contract you are prevented from breaking it. I'm sure this is necessary because there is no authority that could possibly enforce contracts and therefore contracts would be useless in Erfworld if they weren't magically binding. Therefore you never get a bill you can't pay: if you can't pay the bill, then you're forced to live up to your side of the deal no matter how much you want out; paying the bill is your only escape. If you wanted an absolutely rock-solid union, you could just make the contract have no penalty clause, just like the Deal of a Lifetime apparently had no penalty clause. You only get out of it by croaking. I think the reason that the So-be-it Union didn't have one of those kind of contracts was the fact that none of the sides involved trusted the others enough to bind themselves to the union eternally.

    name lips wrote:
    What he should have said was "If Bullyclub was planning a doublecross, they would have amassed a much larger army than they would need for their stated goals" and then when the King looked at the size of their forces, it would have helped convince him.
    There was no getting around telling the king that Crush had been given information. Crush couldn't have explained the plan otherwise, so it would just be delaying the inevitable. Plus, a bigger army is always better no matter what you're trying to accomplish, so I think Bullyclub has an excellent excuse for having a big army. Most sides in Erfworld surely have as big an army as they can afford.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:59 pm 
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    Lilwik wrote:
    If you wanted an absolutely rock-solid union, you could just make the contract have no penalty clause, just like the Deal of a Lifetime apparently had no penalty clause. You only get out of it by croaking. I think the reason that the So-be-it Union didn't have one of those kind of contracts was the fact that none of the sides involved trusted the others enough to bind themselves to the union eternally.


    Given that the binding force behind the DoaL seems to be considerably stronger than the Duty that prevents a warlord shivving their own Overlord in the night or defecting to another side, one would assume it involves something - funds, magic - not available to most sides. If most people had access to that kind of contract nobody would ever turn. The lack of any relevant casters is probably related to this.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:20 pm 
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    Very interesting that a cluster of sides with so many very literate warlords was so very short on casters.

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     Post subject: Re: Lord Crush - Part 4
     Post Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:25 pm 
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    Jinren wrote:
    If most people had access to that kind of contract nobody would ever turn. The lack of any relevant casters is probably related to this.
    They do seem to lack a Signamancer, but surely they could have spared the shmuckers to hire one from the Magic Kingdom, especially since they must have had at least a brief time of peace while they were setting up the union.

    Surely the cost of having a contract with every unit on your side is far beyond the cost of the Deal of a Lifetime. I would expect the anti-turning contract to cost hundreds or thousands of times as much because there are hundreds or thousands of times as many parties involved. It's a huge stretch to concluded that just because they can't afford one they also can't afford the other. Even if you had one particular unit in mind and you just wanted a contract to ensure loyalty, it probably wouldn't be a good idea because how could you ever trust a unit that you had already decided was untrustworthy? There might always be a loophole in the contract that would allow the unit to somehow aid your enemies without turning. I expect that using Thinkamancy would be the preferred technique, as mentioned in Book 1, Klog 10.

    I'm not saying that your theory isn't true; it certainly could be, but the evidence seems rather weak.

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